Questionable Camos

[M45]

WWII German Helmets - Original WW2 Helmets - German War Helmet

100% original WW II German Helmets & Militaria - WWII German Helmets, German Army Helmets, Luftwaffe Helmets, Waffen SS Helmets, German Helmet Camo, WW2

germanwarhelmet.com

WWII M42 EF66 German Wehrmacht Camo Helmet​

Item H713: Exterior displays a very nice patina which has a base tan camo with the streaks of green and oxblood red throughout. Tight fitting liner system 100% original to the helmet. All three untouched split pin rivet fasteners intact and complete with all three slotted washers. Leather liner is undamaged, fully pliable and has taken on a darkened aged appearance. Original drawstring in place. Overall excellent condition.

Price: $7000

reduced: $6750

 

[Tarnmar44]

Non matching patina, I know who painted this one

 

[Tarnmar44]

WorldWarCollectibles

WorldWarCollectibles

www.worldwarcollectibles.com

Only 4450 for this normandy crap(in my opinion). I opened a thread on WAF about this helmet and it disappeared within an hour. Fake decal, fake camo, fake patina. I wrote to the seller a few days ago but complete ignorance. Anyway, he has more dubious helmets, to put it mildly. The beak and decal elements are fantasy. silver plating is also crap, far from any variant of heer decals.

 

[Hambone]

WorldWarCollectibles

WorldWarCollectibles

www.worldwarcollectibles.com

Only 4450 for this normandy crap(in my opinion). I opened a thread on WAF about this helmet and it disappeared within an hour. Fake decal, fake camo, fake patina. I wrote to the seller a few days ago but complete ignorance. Anyway, he has more dubious helmets, to put it mildly. The beak and decal elements are fantasy. silver plating is also crap, far from any variant of heer decals.

Why would the WAFmods censor, delete, and disappear a thread concerning a legitimate discussion?

 

[M45]

Here is an interesting youtube modeler showing how to weather a 1/16 Jag Panther model. With the right tools supplies and knowledge, it is not that difficult to weather something and make it look authentic.

 

[M45]

Rare M42 Heer combat medics helmet, « ET66 »

Rare M42 Heer combat medics helmet, « ET66 »

www.lux-military-antiques.com

Rare M42 Heer combat medics helmet, « ET66 »​

An exceptional and textbook Heer combat medics helmet, this one was recently found in the center of France during a house clearance and has never been in collection before, it remained in its untouched state. The helmet is an « ET66 » with an unreadable lot number. The exterior of the helmet as well as the skirt were first painted in red, the locations of the two crosses were delimited in grease pencil then the outside was painted in white, leaving the two red crosses to appear. The exterior is in overall very good condition, it retains over 95% of the paint with a slight oxidation on the right side and a very nice patina. The interior has suffered of a poor storage, the leather is dry but the original chinstrap is present. It is certainly one of the rarest German helmets, this type of helmet is never offered on the market!
7750,00€tax inc.

Ref:LMA11146

A bit expensive for what appears to be there. This helmet had been red painted inside and out, and then the white paint was applied leaving the cross shape exposed.
My understanding of red helmets is that they were done post war. The same is the case with chrome plated/brass plated helmets. I am aware of no period photos or documentation that support these helmets being TR era. If I'm wrong, someone please enlighten me.

I'll say $100 for this one. The leather is shot and some time will have to be spent removing all of the PW paint.

 

[Hambone]

Paint can be crazed with an oven. One of the more amusing navel gazing free, association fests of those who don’t know what they don’t know was watching waftards debate “old rust vs. new rust”. The other is the discussion about wire helmet “authentication”. I’ve scored some superb original (likely) wire helmets at cheap prices due to all that.

 

[mauser99]

WorldWarCollectibles

WorldWarCollectibles

www.worldwarcollectibles.com

Only 4450 for this normandy crap(in my opinion). I opened a thread on WAF about this helmet and it disappeared within an hour. Fake decal, fake camo, fake patina. I wrote to the seller a few days ago but complete ignorance. Anyway, he has more dubious helmets, to put it mildly. The beak and decal elements are fantasy. silver plating is also crap, far from any variant of heer decals.

yes, the camo is horrible and you can clearly see the fake Doo Doo bird type decal being stupidly exposed under the paint.. Frank tends to always ask about seeing close ups of the decal. Even the smallest hint can turn up bad graphics on a Heer or Luft decal.

 

[M45]

Original helmets | German Helmets Inc

www.germanhelmetsinc.com

Item 608 M40 No-decal Chicken-wire helmet​

​

This one came off of my collection shelf and is in my opinion completely original. Chicken-wire helmets are probably the biggest mine-field in the helmet collecting world. Detecting an original vs a fake is made more difficult when a helmet has not aged in a way that caused degradation to the surface and components. When a specimen remains in fine condition, the signs of it being original are much more subtle. I believe that this one has those signs. The wire is just the type which one should look for, being composed of a small mesh with the direction of the twist running in different directions as the mesh was woven. This is indicative of the way that wire was machine made at the time. This wires shows a dar finish under the whitened area where oxidation has effected it. There is very little interaction between the wire and the steel shell which is commensurate with the overall fine condition. The helmet retains 97% original paint and the liner shows only very light wear. There is no chinstrap. The shell is a post 1943 Quist size 64. The wire is a half-basket held to the shell at three points with larger guage bailing wire. Overall, a top shelf wire helmet. SOLD​

Something very interesting (the right word?) has just happened here. Ken has been able to take a helmet that, by his own words, is the biggest minefield in the helmet collecting world (wire helmets) and actually sell it to someone. Apparently an essentially unissued ND M40 helmet has recently had a half-basket applied. How would you market such a helmet as 100% authentic ? Ken says the helmet has resided on his collection shelf (as if that magically makes a helmet authentic), and in his opinion is completely original (once again, he is selling his opinions, kind of like the C-SS fiasco where people were buying author's opinions).

He tells us that wire helmets in fine condition are much more difficult to authenticate, but that this helmet has subtle signs of authenticity. I must be missing something as I do not see where he tells us what these subtle signs are. He then goes straight to discussing the wire itself, the manufacturing, the corrosion of the wire, and admits there is very little interaction of the wire to the helmet (apparently really the only way to authenticate these).

I didn't get the price on this one, but I'm guessing somewhere in the 5K neighborhood. (let's see: $500 ND helmet + $10 worth of old wire = a nice profit).

Dealers can successfully sell questionable items by planting BUGS in people's heads. Subtle signs of authenticity were MENTIONED but never explained/demonstrated/proven. This dealer has done this before by MENTIONING vets in the ad, but later admitting that no vet information is able to be passed on. Those BUGS planted in our heads affect our decisions.

Certain young ladies have mastered this art when garnering male help for their projects. Sex is MENTIONED during the opening pitch, but after the project is done, no sex is forthcoming. We've been played for fools.

A dealer was selling a factory helmet with rust spots that he said gave off a CAMO-EFFECT. Even though the helmet was not a camo, him MENTIONING camo could justify a higher price.

Some dealers also advertise factory NO-DECAL helmets as HEER/WAFFEN-SS. While theoretically any ND helmet could have been used by the SS, if a ND helmet does not have proven SS provenance, it is considered a common ND.

 

[Tarnmar44]

The one with the wire is obvious - a very nice, never released late Quist, with a perfect liner that never sat on the head or was touched by hands when removed from the head. No real wear between wire, paint and metals. If someone pays a lot of money for it, they dig themselves in at their own request...

 

[Tarnmar44]

Rare M42 Heer combat medics helmet, « ET66 »

Rare M42 Heer combat medics helmet, « ET66 »

www.lux-military-antiques.com

Rare M42 Heer combat medics helmet, « ET66 »​

An exceptional and textbook Heer combat medics helmet, this one was recently found in the center of France during a house clearance and has never been in collection before, it remained in its untouched state. The helmet is an « ET66 » with an unreadable lot number. The exterior of the helmet as well as the skirt were first painted in red, the locations of the two crosses were delimited in grease pencil then the outside was painted in white, leaving the two red crosses to appear. The exterior is in overall very good condition, it retains over 95% of the paint with a slight oxidation on the right side and a very nice patina. The interior has suffered of a poor storage, the leather is dry but the original chinstrap is present. It is certainly one of the rarest German helmets, this type of helmet is never offered on the market!
7750,00€tax inc.

Ref:LMA11146

A bit expensive for what appears to be there. This helmet had been red painted inside and out, and then the white paint was applied leaving the cross shape exposed.
My understanding of red helmets is that they were done post war. The same is the case with chrome plated/brass plated helmets. I am aware of no period photos or documentation that support these helmets being TR era. If I'm wrong, someone please enlighten me.

I'll say $100 for this one. The leather is shot and some time will have to be spent removing all of the PW paint.

I love the authentication by the cracks in the paint. Collectors Like it.

 

[M45]

Item 611 M35 Heer camouflage helmet​

Original helmets | German Helmets Inc

www.germanhelmetsinc.com

This is an EF66 M35 that original left the factory as a Double decal army helmet. It dates to 1938 and saw a considerable amount of use before the camouflage was applied probably post 1943. The camouflage is a very coarse texture paint applied in three colors which subtly run into one another. It seems to be mixed with soil or ash rather than more evenly sized particles such as sand. The paint remains 95% intact with varied and evenly spread scratches and chips which would be commensurate with extended periods of field usage. The inside skirt retains the original factory finish and is nicely named in paint. The aluminum framed liner shows considerable wear. One of the springs which attach to the inner liner frame has come un-popped from the rivet connecting it to the inner frame. This is in the front. It causes a bit of wiggle in the liner but that’s about it. Such wear damage is often found on early aluminum liner frames which have seen as much use as this one has. It certainly does not effect display-ability of this very attractive camouflage helmet. SOLD​

No vet information or anything about WHERE this thing came from. It just magically appeared one day. Probably some picker 'found' it somewhere. I was concerned about all of the camo in fantastic condition, all of the very detailed texture that has not seen one bump, scrape or rub mark that is commonly seen on known originals that were actually worn in combat. Then there is the wear disparity between the well worn liner and the great conditioned camo. Was I the only one to see this ? and saw a considerable amount of use before the camouflage was applied probably post 1943. The aluminum framed liner shows considerable wear.

OK! Ken sees this too. Just so I'm not the only one to see disparity of wear. I feel a whole lot more comfortable buying a dodgy helmet if other people see the same problems with it that I'm seeing.

That close up rim shot shows loads of highly detailed texture in pristine condition, and then right near the rim WHAM !!!! something knocks some paint off.

and saw a considerable amount of use before the camouflage was applied probably post 2013.

This sounds a little more accurate to me.

 

[Tarnmar44]

Smart pictures; in the shade, the paint doesn't look as fresh as it actually is. Fortunately, most fakers don't "understand" patina. No real wear and tear, probably a cheap, salty reissued M35 on steroids $$$$.

 

[M45]

WorldWarCollectibles

WorldWarCollectibles

www.worldwarcollectibles.com

Only 4450 for this normandy crap(in my opinion). I opened a thread on WAF about this helmet and it disappeared within an hour. Fake decal, fake camo, fake patina. I wrote to the seller a few days ago but complete ignorance. Anyway, he has more dubious helmets, to put it mildly. The beak and decal elements are fantasy. silver plating is also crap, far from any variant of heer decals.

You've got a good heart, but you're warning all of the wrong people. This happens to be a classic plot twist in Hollywood, the one where a guy goes to warn the sheriff about a crime, about an Alien invasion etc... but the people he warns are the criminals/Aliens/etc... It usually ends with the bell-ringer being 'dispatched', kind of like your thread was.

 

[M45]

Smart pictures; in the shade, the paint doesn't look as fresh as it actually is. Fortunately, most fakers don't "understand" patina. No real wear and tear, probably a cheap, salty reissued M35 on steroids $$$$.

Good eyes ! This seller has historically used low lighting to photograph white snow camo/ medic helmets, but has begun using low light with camos. He usually uses regular lighting with unaltered factory helmets.
He uses lighting to give just the right effect in his studio, but I guess once it arrives and you open up the box and bring your new 'camo' into the sunlight, it is too late to return it.

 

[Tarnmar44]

The scary thing is that most people who buy these helmets have one fundamental problem. They have cash but no knowledge. What more often am I indifferent when they put money on it??? As famous dealers say, "customer satisfaction" is the most important thing, whatever that means... Now there are a lot of groups on FB - fakers authorize "originality" from their second fake FB accounts there. This hobby tends to collapse. With crazy prices.

 

[M45]

I don't think the hobby is collapsing. Yes there have been loads of fake camos and fake decaled helmets in recent decades, but lot# research and excellent books on helmet decals have helped to weed out a very large number of the fake decaled/factory helmets. The lot# book will help to identify which factory decals are found on which maker/model/series. Paired with Ken N.'s decal books, one can compare decals to photos in the books. Reissue decals have been identified as well.

As far as camos in general go, if you are not extremely well versed with them, simply avoid them until cheap/rapid forensic testing methods become available.
As far as high dealer prices are concerned, realize that collectors are partly responsible for this. If we stop paying high prices, dealers will lower them to move their product.

PDF FILE - 11 GERMAN HELMET LOT NUMBERS 1935-1945 REVISION - 11 COMPUTER FILE | eBay

This revision has more decal and chinstrap information. Discussion about how lot numbers interrelate between factories. PDF FILE FORMAT. This research project is largely incomplete as it stands with much more information yet to be acquired.

www.ebay.com

GERMAN HELMET LOT NUMBERS 1935-1945 REVISION - 11 HARD BACK BOOK | eBay

This revision has more decal and chinstrap information. This research project is largely incomplete as it stands with much more information yet to be acquired. This research project should be seen as a step forward in lot number research and not the final word on the subject.

www.ebay.com

 

[Tarnmar44]

The lot number book is not an oracle. Amateur-half-wits in the field of creating "camouflages" may not look at it and not matching, but most of them already have access to it and create exactly as in the book. I know much more than you think and I have German camouflage disassembled into atoms. Amazing is that the community authorizes poor fake camo 99% of the helmets in this thread for a specialist are trivial. Contrary to appearances, most absurd helmets come from the USA. Norway follows closely behind (accepting the absence of any wear and the presence of real patina). And the masters of this work live in Europe, but they are individual artists.

 

[M45]

M38 camo. The WAF German helmet/FJ forums have at least 20 years experience. I'm just a bit confused how they could think a camo like this has any chance of authenticity.

https://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/forum/wehrmacht-era-militaria/fallschirmj%C3%A4ger-forum/14116625-camo-helmet-m38

"Many are STILL afraid of minty camo helmets: both the camo and the core helmet. Which to me is bizarre.
That's why fake camos with lots of wear and rust, to both the camo and the core helmet, sell so easily. And are the focus of the fakers. As seen on several FB groups; but one in particular.
After several visits to that museum, I have yet to see a fake on display. - Willi Z.

I'm STILL trying to figure out what Willi is saying here.

As per Willi, fakers apparently are only focusing on creating camos with lots of fake wear and rust because they are in high demand and sell so easily. But fakers would NEVER produce a MINTY camo because they don't sell.

So then according to Willi, every MINTY camo MUST be authentic because fakers never make them (they would not sell). That must be why he and his friends love this MINTY M38 camo so much.

 

[mauser202]

A lot of heavy hitters like that FJ. It‘s cool looking, but also looks to me like it was done 6 months ago. Don‘t think I’ll ever own a camo lid. Too stressful for the amount of money risked IMO.