Model
Senior Member
Good luck with that, I had to have an Original MP44 bolt fitted (thanks Pete) to my PTR44 as Jerry's unit never worked correctly in my Rifle.
I will report on this after I get it out on the Range this Friday.
HDH.
PTR44 Semi-Auto MP44
- Thread starter mrfarb
- Start date
Good luck with that, I had to have an Original MP44 bolt fitted (thanks Pete) to my PTR44 as Jerry's unit never worked correctly in my Rifle.
I will report on this after I get it out on the Range this Friday.
HDH.
Recon Ord Bolt
REALLY? Well, I guess I'll have my gunsmith give it a try and report back as well. Thank you for your insight!!!!!
REALLY? Well, I guess I'll have my gunsmith give it a try and report back as well. Thank you for your insight!!!!!
d dAY dOG
Well-known member
Dingo,
MP44, FG42 Type 1 or 2, GK43, Mkb42, MP40 (pistol version or SBR). The GK43 would probably be a pretty popular seller and I would consider buying one if the price were right. However, taking into account the price SSD wants for these firearms, they MUST work flawlessly out of the box, period. When you pay $5,000+ for a military rifle that doesn't work perfectly to (at the very least) the standards of a high quality piston AR rifle, SCAR, etc. or isn't backed by a warranty that actually works, you're getting ripped-off ... and that's putting it mildly. The BD44 wasn't proven to be a well manufactured rifle out of the box. For whatever reasons and at whoevers fault doesn't matter one bit. They didn't work perfectly after the 922r refitting and we were NOT told that by PTR. People will likely shy away from buying one because of all the bad press. I would never buy another BD44 and I'm almost afraid to shoot mine for fear of breaking something. As such, SPARE PARTS are a must for all SSD's rifles. Here in the U.S., when a rifle part breaks, we order a replacement, install/have it installed, and go shoot again ... simple. But to have a rifle that is so unique like the PTR44 that NO spare parts exist except for those that are 70 yrs. old (and don't necessarily fit) or are only available across the pond in Germany, but cannot be exported ... WTF? When I confirmed my order in Fall of 2009, I was told on the phone by PTR's sale person they would be test fired and there would be spare parts, but I was lied to. Never again for me.
SSD's rifles would also need to be more reasonably priced. They have proven competition in the form of a serious and reputable manufacturer (of at least the FG42 rifles) already here in the U.S. I can tell you now, very few people are going to pay $10K+ for a new semi-auto FG42 that isn't proven and doesn't have spare parts. My Canadian friends complain of the same thing: "Where are the spare parts?" - and their rifles come in with NO 922r refitting. SSD's museum quality workmanship will NOT trump a tried and tested firing platform like the FG42 rifles (Type 2 for now) being produced by SMG in Texas. SMG's FG42s both look authentic and shoot excellent - the best $5K I've spent on anything. Not to mention they back their guns 100%. Oh yeah, and they produce spare parts. 'MERICA !!! If only SMG would build a semi-auto MP44 ... *sigh*... pipe dream. Excluding the few safe queen hoarders who don't ever shoot their rifles, reliability is a must for U.S. shooters. In our country, we like to pick up our military rifles many times a year - load a 20/30 round mag. - shoot (lots of rapid fire too) - and repeat 10+ more times that day. We shoot our stuff A LOT. We like to wear out barrels - not necessarily receiver sections.
All this being said, we DO GREATLY APPRECIATE your efforts and help, Dingo, with the PTR44 op rod issue. That brought back some good faith in these weapons. We had hopes of seeing these firearms again as well as the promised spare parts that would be made available. But Tim Foreman at Gewehrwerks (the last guy I know of who advertised he was go to bring them in) never did to my knowledge or I would have heard about it by now. If you're planning on "producing" (building the complete guns) here in the U.S. under license, that would be best. They would be much more easily backed/warrantied and (hopefully) would be better priced to where they'd be marketable to the masses. I know of 3 or 4 guys that would've bought a PTR44 had it proven itself to be a reliable firearm. As such, these guys just keep shooting the same ARs and AKs ... forever, and ever, and ever, and ever ...
The other firearms listed above are hugely popular in the U.S. (probably not the Mkb42 though - although I'd love to have one). I reflect a common consumer who is willing to spend 1,000s of $ on a rifle (and I ain't rich). But only IF they're reliable, priced right, and have a warranty that is backed and spare parts available. I do, however, prefer to buy U.S. made. The internet rules for a source of information - and the available information on SSD weapons right now is NOT all that good at this time.
My soap box comments for the day ...
Dog
Model
Senior Member
First Smith I sent it to (to fit the Recon bolt) had no idea what he was doing, that was part of the problem. I had Pete Flies (shortfal) do the rebuild on my Gun and from what I can see it was professionally done. I will know more on Friday when I take it out to shoot.
The more MP44 parts you can put into the PTR44 the better.
P.S. Yes Dingo we shoot our weapons here in the U.S. and actually expect them to work the first time. BTW thanks for the Part you sent.
HDH.
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pitfighter
Senior Member
Dingo - I would buy a first model FG42 - Mkb42.
I realize that many of the issues with the SSD guns were results of the work done to them, required for importation - replacing German made parts with US to conform to 922R, etc.,
Perhaps that can be avoided by manufacturing within the US from the start.
I realize that many of the issues with the SSD guns were results of the work done to them, required for importation - replacing German made parts with US to conform to 922R, etc.,
Perhaps that can be avoided by manufacturing within the US from the start.
d dAY dOG
Well-known member
If they were manufactured here in the U.S., and proven to function, I would (at the least) buy a GK43 and an Mkb42 for my collection - assuming the unit cost is not astronomical.
Wow, looks like we are going to have to quit laying on the Costa Rican beaches and finish that type I before it is too late! I think there would be a market here in the US for everything SSD made. Like you said, if it works and is somewhere close to reasonable. We get enough inquiries from overseas - think Europe - to wonder why that was not a viable market....... Don't know you Dingo but if you guys make it I think you can sell it!
And thanks Doug, that is a very cool thing to say!
Rick
And thanks Doug, that is a very cool thing to say!
Rick
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GunKraut
Senior Member
With his FG42 Rick has made a name for himself as a reliable domestic manufacturer and he significantly raised the bar for everybody else in the clone market.
I haven't heard a lot of complaints from the Canadian side of the border regarding quality issues with the BD44 once distributed by Marstar. The PTR44 is basically a BD44, except for functionally important foreign made parts were replaced with domestic parts in order to be 922(r) compliant. When I look at my rifle, it seems the magazine well had been welded shut at one point to get the piece parts into the country without violating laws regulating the import of so called assault weapons. Once on U.S. soil, the well was opened up again but some rough welding beads are still visible inside the well without serving any structural purpose. Anyhow, acknowledging the fact that the PTR44 is nothing but an ill-fated German-American shotgun wedding, the numerous problems this sorry bastard of a rifle has exhibited come as no surprise to me. Too many cooks in the kitchen...
I haven't heard a lot of complaints from the Canadian side of the border regarding quality issues with the BD44 once distributed by Marstar. The PTR44 is basically a BD44, except for functionally important foreign made parts were replaced with domestic parts in order to be 922(r) compliant. When I look at my rifle, it seems the magazine well had been welded shut at one point to get the piece parts into the country without violating laws regulating the import of so called assault weapons. Once on U.S. soil, the well was opened up again but some rough welding beads are still visible inside the well without serving any structural purpose. Anyhow, acknowledging the fact that the PTR44 is nothing but an ill-fated German-American shotgun wedding, the numerous problems this sorry bastard of a rifle has exhibited come as no surprise to me. Too many cooks in the kitchen...
dingo
Senior Member
Well. We are working on mowing to us and produce them there fore SSD. About the price , we will not put an 100% on topp of the gun prices like some other did. All the SSD wepons i have work god and these guns will only have one cheff. There will also Come some new models soon. I think you will like the prices. All parts will be fore sell also. Pardon my spelling but i am using my cell phone down in Germany right now.
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Model
Senior Member
So we looked at the jamming problem a bit more and found that the problem is with metal deformation on the bottom of the receiver near the trigger group hinge point. Not visible in the photo are metal shavings from where the bolt was wearing on the receiver. Note the location of the bolt in the jammed position. From the top this corresponds to the front face of the bolt being halfway across the top of the mag with the round being halfway stripped from the mag.
In the photo below the side walls were bulged out a small amount at the points where the red arrows are. The bulge was flattened with a pair of angle jaw pliers with not serrated jaws. The two ears marked with green arrows here tapped down a bit with a brass punch. No idea how permanent this repair is but the gun did not jam once during a 30 round mag dump of blanks.
Tim
That's what my rifle looked like before Pete Fleis worked on it.,this is what it looks like now.
He also fitted an original MP44 bolt to my rifle.
I was told by other Gunsmith's and Recon Ordnance that this was not possible, well it is possible and now for the first time in 4 years this rifle
Has fired 81 rounds down range with no failures at all. That's right not one jam.
I had 27 rounds loaded in each mag (two original and one reproduction)Thanks Pete.
HDH.
d dAY dOG
Well-known member
Nice to know it's finally working right for you now, Bud.
I almost forgot to post that I was at the range a couple weeks ago and, after only a few rounds of PPU, my operating rod/bolt carrier locked up inside the receiver. The culprit appeared to be a round that failed to eject properly and got jammed inside the action stopping the bolt from coming back into battery. The round that failed to eject was mashed significantly and the round that tried to load in behind it had the bullet pushed backwards inside the brass. I could not manually charge the op rod handle and had to take apart the rifle and lightly smack the bolt rearwards on the edge of the shooting bench to get it to unlock.
This serious misfeed appeared at the time to be because I failed to push upwards on the (repro.) mag. I was using while firing the rifle. This is something I usually do as the rifle will fire almost flawlessly without any type of misfeed or ejection issues. I don't have an original mag. to try out and I did not buy any of the modified mags. (which ppl. said worked better) offered a few yrs. ago on the GK43 forum. I did not check under the receiver to see if I had any damage or abnormal wear similar to that shown in the pics., but I will look soon and let you guys know. I've always suspected that the only issues I have with my rifle are the mags. It appeared that the next round improperly stripped somehow after the first round fired.
The chamber on mine was supposed to have been worked on by PTR, but who knows. With the amount of posts coming in about receiver wear and what not, it's probably a matter of time before mine will need to be worked too. When I have the dough to spend, I would seriously consider hiring someone knowledgable to check the rifle over completely and "pre-maintenance" it, so to speak. I would also like to have a spare op rod and bolt set up for it. I do have an original op rod and would like to know if anyone has ever had both an original op rod and original bolt fitted in their PTR44? As long as it's not the culprit, I really don't want to modify the PTR44 bolt and op rod and I've heard that the new ones offered by Recon aren't worth the metal they are made of.
Dog
I almost forgot to post that I was at the range a couple weeks ago and, after only a few rounds of PPU, my operating rod/bolt carrier locked up inside the receiver. The culprit appeared to be a round that failed to eject properly and got jammed inside the action stopping the bolt from coming back into battery. The round that failed to eject was mashed significantly and the round that tried to load in behind it had the bullet pushed backwards inside the brass. I could not manually charge the op rod handle and had to take apart the rifle and lightly smack the bolt rearwards on the edge of the shooting bench to get it to unlock.
This serious misfeed appeared at the time to be because I failed to push upwards on the (repro.) mag. I was using while firing the rifle. This is something I usually do as the rifle will fire almost flawlessly without any type of misfeed or ejection issues. I don't have an original mag. to try out and I did not buy any of the modified mags. (which ppl. said worked better) offered a few yrs. ago on the GK43 forum. I did not check under the receiver to see if I had any damage or abnormal wear similar to that shown in the pics., but I will look soon and let you guys know. I've always suspected that the only issues I have with my rifle are the mags. It appeared that the next round improperly stripped somehow after the first round fired.
The chamber on mine was supposed to have been worked on by PTR, but who knows. With the amount of posts coming in about receiver wear and what not, it's probably a matter of time before mine will need to be worked too. When I have the dough to spend, I would seriously consider hiring someone knowledgable to check the rifle over completely and "pre-maintenance" it, so to speak. I would also like to have a spare op rod and bolt set up for it. I do have an original op rod and would like to know if anyone has ever had both an original op rod and original bolt fitted in their PTR44? As long as it's not the culprit, I really don't want to modify the PTR44 bolt and op rod and I've heard that the new ones offered by Recon aren't worth the metal they are made of.
Dog
Model
Senior Member
Doug,
My PTR44 is now running with an original NAZI WW2 (MP44) German oprod/carrier and Bolt, that's the point of my post. Simply put the more original MP44/Stg44 parts one puts into the PTR the better it will run Bro.
I highly recommend the Man I sent it to AKA Shortfal. He knows the MP43/44/Stg44 platform inside out, unlike some of the other highly touted a$$-Wipes Iv'e set the gun to in the past.
Dave H.
d dAY dOG
Well-known member
Gotcha Dave, Wasn't sure whether or not the op rod you had was WW2 or not. I know from earlier posts that you said you had one. Maybe I should've read more instead of typing more.
I'll let you know when/what/why and how on my above post when I have some time to check my rifle again.
Take care,
Doug
I'll let you know when/what/why and how on my above post when I have some time to check my rifle again.
Take care,
Doug
MP44 bolt & firing pin
I picked up an original bolt and spare firing pin for my new PTR44 project. I'm using all of your help/posts to avoid any major problems. Thank you all... especially Tim & Pete!
I picked up an original bolt and spare firing pin for my new PTR44 project. I'm using all of your help/posts to avoid any major problems. Thank you all... especially Tim & Pete!
Attachments
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Waffentag
Senior Member
Original Bolt/Oprod for PTR44
I also tried everything to get my PTR44 to run right. The solution was to use an original bolt and OPROD. Now, it is just flawless.
I gave my gun smith two original bolts with the intent that he use the one that headspaced the best. He did not listen very well and modified both bolts for my PTR44. They both work great. But now, I have the original Bolt that came with the rifle and TWO (2) more original spares! It is kind of overkill!
My original C&R registered WW2 full Auto should be on the ways soon and it would have been good to have kept one bolt unmodifed to run in that. Well, maybe it will still work? I understand that the full auto kick is on the Oprod anyway?
A few of my friends with all C&R matching MP 40s, will swap out everything but the receiver when they shoot it. They are afraid of breaking a numberd matching part.
Is this a concern with an original matching MP44 or are the bolts and other matching parts indestructible?
Pat
I also tried everything to get my PTR44 to run right. The solution was to use an original bolt and OPROD. Now, it is just flawless.
I gave my gun smith two original bolts with the intent that he use the one that headspaced the best. He did not listen very well and modified both bolts for my PTR44. They both work great. But now, I have the original Bolt that came with the rifle and TWO (2) more original spares! It is kind of overkill!
My original C&R registered WW2 full Auto should be on the ways soon and it would have been good to have kept one bolt unmodifed to run in that. Well, maybe it will still work? I understand that the full auto kick is on the Oprod anyway?
A few of my friends with all C&R matching MP 40s, will swap out everything but the receiver when they shoot it. They are afraid of breaking a numberd matching part.
Is this a concern with an original matching MP44 or are the bolts and other matching parts indestructible?
Pat
original parts
I'd be interested to know what mod your guy did to your original bolts. Some PTR's have a narrowed place at the very rear of the rec. that keeps a original bolt from going in due to the width of the back of the bolt where the locking surface is. He could have narrowed your bolts. If your bolts headspaced tight he may have removed metal from the locking surface. #2 Would probably have those bolts headspacing loose in your original gun.
Just guessing for now.
Pete
Others might want to chime in, but I personally never heard of an original MP44 bolt or carrier giving problems.
I'd be interested to know what mod your guy did to your original bolts. Some PTR's have a narrowed place at the very rear of the rec. that keeps a original bolt from going in due to the width of the back of the bolt where the locking surface is. He could have narrowed your bolts. If your bolts headspaced tight he may have removed metal from the locking surface. #2 Would probably have those bolts headspacing loose in your original gun.
Just guessing for now.
Pete
Waffentag
Senior Member
They perfectly with either original bolt.
Pete, my PTR runs flawlessly with either bolt. He opened up the gun and narrowed the base on the bolt,
The issue is that now I have two spares for my PTR 44. I do not need two spares for my PTR. I would rather have one PTR spare and one for my MP 44.
Pat
Pete, my PTR runs flawlessly with either bolt. He opened up the gun and narrowed the base on the bolt,
The issue is that now I have two spares for my PTR 44. I do not need two spares for my PTR. I would rather have one PTR spare and one for my MP 44.
Pat
bolts
Good to hear your PTR is now running fine. Too bad both bolts got cut on.
You lose some bearing area bolt to locking block by that narrowing. Probably not the biggest deal in the world for the semi gun, but less so for running a lot of FA in your machine gun.
I never thought of it before just now but it'd be interesting to compare the locking surface area of the MP44 to the FAL rifle that shoots a much more powerful ctg. but uses an identical locking design.
Pete
Pat,
Good to hear your PTR is now running fine. Too bad both bolts got cut on.
You lose some bearing area bolt to locking block by that narrowing. Probably not the biggest deal in the world for the semi gun, but less so for running a lot of FA in your machine gun.
I never thought of it before just now but it'd be interesting to compare the locking surface area of the MP44 to the FAL rifle that shoots a much more powerful ctg. but uses an identical locking design.
Pete
