PTR44 Semi-Auto MP44

Looks like some familiar faces on here from the G/K-43 forum. Anyhow, I've had many of the same problems with my Ptr-44, bolt jamming in the receiver, broken op-rod, trigger components breaking due to poor heat treatment, etc etc. However I have been able to get mine to run fairly well by using original parts. The last thing that broke on mine was the striker rod in my original bolt carrier! That was annoying, I was not expecting original parts to break. Anyhow, I pulled the striker from my broken Ptr carrier and installed it into the original carrier but have not had a chance to shoot it since then.
 
Strange op-rod modification

Found this strange op-rod modification on fleeceBay. Why would someone turn the normally straight ramp at the bottom into a "V" shape?

mp44odd1.JPGmp44odd2.JPG
 
A bit more work on the PTR44 that I have just sold. He will be using original WWII op rod and bolt, but I decided to stress relieve some of the more vulnerable edges on the PTR op rod and bolt hooks.

The bolt:


Op rod. Note the void in the metal circled in red and compare to the likely failure starting point in my op rod in the second pic below. Hmmm... coincidence?
Was able to grind/polish the void away without taking off too much material. Might be worthwhile for anyone still using the original op rod to do a bit of light grinding (rubber Cratex wheels) and polishing to see if this is a common problem.





Tim
 
what can anyone tell me about the repro mags that came with these rifles and the ones Recon is now selling or do you all prefer original/post war mp-44 mags

I am about to jump on one of these rifles I just wanted a consensus

Jack
 
sprat said:
what can anyone tell me about the repro mags that came with these rifles and the ones Recon is now selling or do you all prefer original/post war mp-44 mags

I am about to jump on one of these rifles I just wanted a consensus

Jack
Click to expand...


The repro. mags. are hit or miss. If you only load 10 rounds in them, they tend to work better. Several PTR owners I've talked to say the original (and very expensive) mags. work very well, but I personally don't have any orig. or post war mags.

As Recon was in on the original deal with PTR, Inc., I've been told that his mags. are the same as the ones that originally came with the rifle. However, I've also been told that he partnered up with a separate person who sold "better" mags. after the rifle had been out for a bit. I have no idea what mags. Recon has now - best to simply ask him. My repro. mags. all work better when pushing upwards on the mag. while firing the rifle so it seats better up inside the mag. well.

Be prepared to possibly buy original MP44 internal parts. Most people are having their rifles worked over in that way.

Good luck.

Doug
 
Thanks d-day

Jerry @ recon said he has new mags from Thailand better than the repro that came with the rifles)

Jack
 
op rod mod

GunKraut said:
Found this strange op-rod modification on fleeceBay. Why would someone turn the normally straight ramp at the bottom into a "V" shape?

View attachment 84883View attachment 84884
Click to expand...

Have to wonder. I don't know but it could have something to do with the fact that if the trigger block feature is removed or not working the hammer can tie up the carrier to where you'd have to swing the trigger housing down to clear the jam. Whether that makes sense or not in this case I cannot say, but it's a thought.
Some think that feature that keeps the trigger from pulling if the carrier is not in battery is not needed. That is definitely not true.
Pete
 
Posted this in a different thread today, but related to firing my PTR so thought I'd repost here:

Ever since I started using the 7.92x33 reloads my friends are making for me, I haven't had any split cases. As a matter-of-fact I took my PTR44 out this last weekend and shot 150 rounds through it and only had 2 failures to feed and those were both magazine related - both occurring in the bottom 2/3 rounds of one particular mag. I'd bought some 125 grn .323 spitzer bullets online a while back and they work great utilizing Hornady reloading data. Pretty accurate too when compared to the factory Prvi ammo. All the cases I recovered were in perfect condition and no disfiguring at all. I also have a pile of the shorter .323 bullets that appear to be the same type Hornady loads with. We plan to reload with those after I run out of the longer .323 bullets. Sorry, I'm not a reloading geek (yet) so I don't have the powder type, charge, etc. they used to offer here. I just shoot them - collect the brass - buy the bullets, powder, primers - and beg my buddies (with a case of beer or a bottle of Crown) to do all the work. Of course, they get to keep the RCBS 8mm Kurz die sets I bought them to use. What is it with reloaders and collecting die sets? They are truly IN LOVE with die sets - GEEZ. Opened a box to look at some and got yelled at - DONT touch those !!! ... I don't get it. HA HA! Anyway, If you guys have any questions about what they used, let me know and I can find out and post the info. here.

Doug

(Chilling out in Alaska)
 
Broken Bolts?

Greetings Guys:

I am new to this forum and would appreciate some feedback on a problem with my PTR.

I bought my rifle new from Recon Ordnance back in Nov 2013 via a GunBroker auction. According to Jerry Prasser this one was the first of the remaining fifteen that John Andrewski was working on finishing up.

A few days after the rifle arrived a few boxes of Privi ammo arrived from another source. I took it to the range for the first time and got 40 rounds through it just fine. I had to leave because it was getting too dark to shoot anymore. I went back the next afternoon and got 9 rounds through the gun and the bolt broke just below the extractor. All rounds fired were slow fire as I was trying to see how close point of aim and point of impact matched. When the bolt broke the rifle jammed up with the oprod/bolt carrier/bolt group retracted and it took quite a while for me to work everything loose. When the bolt finally came loose the small chunk that broken off fell out. Evidently it had been under the bolt in the bottom part of the receiver behind the slot for the hammer. See the following photos.

008--Op Rod Firing Pin Bolt.jpg

009--Broken Bolt.jpg

010--Broken Bolt.jpg

015--Broken Bolt & Piece.jpg

The rifle was shipped to John Andrewski's on 01/02/14 per Jerry Prasser's direction. Yes, you read that right 01/02/14.

According to John, he was having to machine down one of the semi-auto bolts that had been made so that it would fit into the PTR receiver. According to John, the specs for the original 50 bolts (25 full auto/25 semi-auto) that he and Jerry Prasser made where taken by Jerry from an original MP-44 bolt. Thus, they were oversized for the PTR receiver.

I have also found and forwarded to John an original MP-44 oprod/bolt carrier group for use in repairing the rifle.

Comments? Thoughts? Questions?
 
The bolt section breakage you are showing here is a new one to me. As noted in the thread, some of the original rifles internal parts were not heat treated correctly. Thus there have been part breakages in many rifles. I have heard of disconnectors and extractors breaking and many people have reported op rod sections breaking completely off or chaffing pcs. of metal. I personally have had to replace my extractor 2x now and the op rod section with the "rabbit ears" on it that mates to the bolt - as have many others. I would question what "work" was done on the rifle by John before it was sold to you.

Unfortunately, you have joined the club of PTR44 owners whose pockets have been emptied to remedy issues with these rifles. Receiver reinforcing, the purchasing of original WW2 (and some reproduction) MP44 parts for fitting into the weapon is common, chamber reaming, reloading ammo for correct specs and/or better performance, and buying original WW2 MP44 mags. are some of the more common "fixes". Completely replacing the PTR44s bolt and op rod with original WW2 parts is another. I am looking to do that myself when I can find a complete original WW2 bolt to use with my WW2 op rod.

There are a few members here who have worked with John as well. Perhaps some of them can chime in and comment on their experience with him ... ? By the way ... if I'm reading your post correctly, it's implied that he's had your rifle for over a year now and it's still not fixed? That would be totally unacceptable to me.

Dog
 
Broken Bolts?

Hello D-Day Dog:

It is not implied that it has been at Andrewski's for over a year. It is FACT. One key thing to look at is the discoloration on the extractor. I have never seen that kind of coloration on metals before. And I used to work as a Manufacturing Engineer for a supplier of machined and heat treated parts to Black & Decker.

In an email dated 8/22/14 John informed me that the bolts had been finished. However, he as suffering from Lyme Disease and had been quite sick. He was taking heavy doses of antibiotics to combat the Lyme. Having been there, done that, got the T-shirt, and wore it out back in 2010-1011 I can understand what he was going through.

On 8/23/14 John responded to my email reply of 8/22/14 and informed me that his doctor had upped the dosage significantly and that he was feeling a bit better. That was the last time that he responded to any emails. I sent him one on 12/7/14 date but to date I have not had a reply from him. Due to his previous workload I had only been checking in with him about every two months.

I have noticed that his website has changed more towards a blogging site but I don't know when it changed.

In the meantime I have purchased a 1944 Erma Werkes MP-44. It is a REWAT that was done back in 1989. My Form 4 took less than five months but my dealer failed to notify me for two months that the paperwork was back. I have looked closely at the receiver in light of the issues discussed on this forum about wear at the hammer slot. It looks I will need to see about having the forum member from Missouri take a look at it just to be on the safe side. If I can get it to attach, here is a picture of the hammer slot area.

DSC01111.jpg

By the way, how do you get pictures to post showing in the message instead of just the link shown above this sentence? Well, wouldn't you know it. When I ask how to get pictures to show the darn thing decides to show!

Mike
 
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bolt

JagdFlieger said:
Greetings Guys:

I am new to this forum and would appreciate some feedback on a problem with my PTR.

I bought my rifle new from Recon Ordnance back in Nov 2013 via a GunBroker auction. According to Jerry Prasser this one was the first of the remaining fifteen that John Andrewski was working on finishing up.

A few days after the rifle arrived a few boxes of Privi ammo arrived from another source. I took it to the range for the first time and got 40 rounds through it just fine. I had to leave because it was getting too dark to shoot anymore. I went back the next afternoon and got 9 rounds through the gun and the bolt broke just below the extractor. All rounds fired were slow fire as I was trying to see how close point of aim and point of impact matched. When the bolt broke the rifle jammed up with the oprod/bolt carrier/bolt group retracted and it took quite a while for me to work everything loose. When the bolt finally came loose the small chunk that broken off fell out. Evidently it had been under the bolt in the bottom part of the receiver behind the slot for the hammer. See the following photos.

View attachment 92542

View attachment 92543

View attachment 92544

View attachment 92545

The rifle was shipped to John Andrewski's on 01/02/14 per Jerry Prasser's direction. Yes, you read that right 01/02/14.

According to John, he was having to machine down one of the semi-auto bolts that had been made so that it would fit into the PTR receiver. According to John, the specs for the original 50 bolts (25 full auto/25 semi-auto) that he and Jerry Prasser made where taken by Jerry from an original MP-44 bolt. Thus, they were oversized for the PTR receiver.

I have also found and forwarded to John an original MP-44 oprod/bolt carrier group for use in repairing the rifle.

Comments? Thoughts? Questions?
Click to expand...

I put an original MP44 bolt (and carrier) in a PTR44 for a guy. I did not find it to be any larger (headspace dimension) than the PTR44 bolt. He sent a Recon bolt too. It was not a usable part for several reasons.
I built up a rifle for myself using a stripped PTR44 rec. I got from Recon. It lives with original MP44 parts. BUT BUT It has a barrel I made from a Mauser barrel so having headspaced it to the bolt I used any difference in that particular application would not have been known.
I do not think there is much if any difference in dimensions betweem MP44 bolts and PTR44 bolts so far as headspacing goes. They do however have the width reduced in the area of the locking lug to clear the reduced width at the rear of (some) PTR44's and some difference where the carrier hooks it.
That's to keep a real 44 bolt from going in. DUMB! as there is nothing about a bolt that makes it semi auto or full auto. Carrier yes, bolt no.
It is my opinion that other than perhaps removing the auto sear trip from the carrier no other cutting should be done on the original MP44 parts. I'd remove metal from the rear of the rec. to let the bolt/carrier go in. That's just me FWIW.
Pete
 
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pictures

shortfal said:
I put an original MP44 bolt (and carrier) in a PTR44 for a guy. I did not find it to be any larger (headspace dimension) than the PTR44 bolt. He sent a Recon bolt too. It was not a usable part for several reasons.
I built up a rifle for myself using a stripped PTR44 rec. I got from Recon. It lives with original MP44 parts. BUT BUT It has a barrel I made from a Mauser barrel so having headspaced it to the bolt I used any difference in that particular application would not have been known.
I do not think there is much if any difference in dimensions betweem MP44 bolts and PTR44 bolts so far as headspacing goes. They do however have the width reduced in the area of the locking lug to clear the reduced width at the rear of (some) PTR44's and some difference where the carrier hooks it.
That's to keep a real 44 bolt from going in. DUMB! as there is nothing about a bolt that makes it semi auto or full auto. Carrier yes, bolt no.
It is my opinion that other than perhaps removing the auto sear trip from the carrier no other cutting should be done on the original MP44 parts. I'd remove metal from the rear of the rec. to let the bolt/carrier go in. That's just me FWIW.
Pete
Click to expand...

Wow, that break looks a lot like the broken carrier a fellow posted pictures of some time back. Poor heat treat?? That does not even look like an area that would be stressed other than perhaps hitting the back of the barrel.
Pete
 
Ptr44

I have to had my two cents here. I purchased a PTR from Recon Ord as one of the guns that needed work. I spend a few hours checking all of the parts and comparing them to my original parts. I found out that the lug on the gas piston/bolt carrier was WAY off compared to the lugs on the top of the bolt. It took me about 20 minutes to fix. I put a nice bead of weld on the carrier lug and on the top of the bolt, using my small belt sander and dremel tool I mated them. I have not had a bit of a problem since. This past weekend I fired 90 rounds of 1961 East German Ammo and 90 rounds of Prvi in both aimed and rapid fire without one jam or problems of any kind. I have a video of it shooting that I am trying to attach. Point is the guns can be made to work and work well. I have put quite a few rounds through it and am very pleased with it. Does the PTR44 have some issues yes but they can be fixed. I was lucky that mine seemed to only not be able to work because of the locking lugs. I could have fixed it by installing original MP44 parts but I am not sure what the ATF folks would say if they checked it. Harry
 
shortfal said:
Wow, that break looks a lot like the broken carrier a fellow posted pictures of some time back. Poor heat treat?? That does not even look like an area that would be stressed other than perhaps hitting the back of the barrel.
Pete
Click to expand...

Pete
Did you get the PM that I sent to you?

I would like to talk with you offline via telephone if possible since you are a gunsmith.

Mike
 
Bolts

I went through the PTR drill, broke Oprod etc. It runs fine now. I do like it!

I would like to see how Jerrys bolts work and hold up. Please keep us posted.

I have a question for anyone who might know; has anyone heard of problems with original bolts or OPRODS breaking?

The reason that I ask, is that my original MP44 has a number matching Oprod and bolt. My buddy is telling me to get a spare bolt and OPRODS for it, that I do not want to risk breaking the matching parts.

Thanks Pat,


JagdFlieger said:
Greetings Guys:

I am new to this forum and would appreciate some feedback on a problem with my PTR.

I bought my rifle new from Recon Ordnance back in Nov 2013 via a GunBroker auction. According to Jerry Prasser this one was the first of the remaining fifteen that John Andrewski was working on finishing up.

A few days after the rifle arrived a few boxes of Privi ammo arrived from another source. I took it to the range for the first time and got 40 rounds through it just fine. I had to leave because it was getting too dark to shoot anymore. I went back the next afternoon and got 9 rounds through the gun and the bolt broke just below the extractor. All rounds fired were slow fire as I was trying to see how close point of aim and point of impact matched. When the bolt broke the rifle jammed up with the oprod/bolt carrier/bolt group retracted and it took quite a while for me to work everything loose. When the bolt finally came loose the small chunk that broken off fell out. Evidently it had been under the bolt in the bottom part of the receiver behind the slot for the hammer. See the following photos.

View attachment 92542

View attachment 92543

View attachment 92544

View attachment 92545

The rifle was shipped to John Andrewski's on 01/02/14 per Jerry Prasser's direction. Yes, you read that right 01/02/14.

According to John, he was having to machine down one of the semi-auto bolts that had been made so that it would fit into the PTR receiver. According to John, the specs for the original 50 bolts (25 full auto/25 semi-auto) that he and Jerry Prasser made where taken by Jerry from an original MP-44 bolt. Thus, they were oversized for the PTR receiver.

I have also found and forwarded to John an original MP-44 oprod/bolt carrier group for use in repairing the rifle.

Comments? Thoughts? Questions?
Click to expand...
 
They all need work.

They all need work on the 922R parts. So, he ran about 15 mags throught it. Perhaps he went to the range two or three times and had no failures.

A great gun if you have the 922R parts worked on.

As to price, my Dad was a US Paratrooper diuring WW2 and carriered his issue weapon, a folding stock carbine in a holster on his web gear and a captured MP43. So, I had to have one. But, I understand why anyone else would not pay the entry fee.

It took me about 2 years, sending it off for work, trying all the good suggestions on the old G/K43 forum. But I love it now, it runs like an AK. If anything breaks, I have spare parts and will send it off to Pete to,fix.

Pat



Model said:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=467912982

Wow, I did not realise the late production PTR44 rifles did not have any heat treat problems.:laugh: :moon: :facepalm:

At a bargain price to boot.:thumbsup: Love the Russian scope BTW. ;)

HDH.
Click to expand...
 
Guess I'm the lucky one, thousands of rounds of blank and about 5000 live and no breakages. Did have the issue with the lower receiver bulge but I think my blank adapter was too small causing that.
 
Wow, I was wrong,

I was wrong, I would say that 5000 rounds is good evidence, 300 maybe not?

Pat

mrfarb said:
Guess I'm the lucky one, thousands of rounds of blank and about 5000 live and no breakages. Did have the issue with the lower receiver bulge but I think my blank adapter was too small causing that.
Click to expand...
 
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