DougB exposes "Champagne Rune" SS Decal Fraud and Adds a Coffin Nail to XRFacts
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tjg79
Senior Member
Bob can't prove he didn't see a template spray-job fake. He was likely fooled just like KH was fooled. KH did more than just see them, he bought them, studied them, photographed them, and included them in his published lid reference books. In fact, a lot of lid collectors saw them and thought they were legit. However, Doug B has shown that they were all mistaken and every example he's examined was proved to be a spray-job fake. Poor old Bob will have to produce this elusive "legit" C SS lid to prove his assertion. Otherwise, he's just another old collector that's seen bigfoot.
http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=842946&page=5
The Willi Z new and improved CRSS thread at 5 pages is now pretty sure the SS didn't airbrush rune decals on their helmets and everyone was fooled. There are no crooks, only victims. At that rate, unless a hobby anti-Christ (or is it anarchist?) posts something that Willi doesn't like to get the thread locked it will take about 20 more pages to conclude that CRSS runes were painted on some helmets that were too late to have decals. That thread has no hope of becoming revealing, substantive or helpful other than group therapy as it alternates between Willi approved navel gazing, hugging and self evident remarks.
Who issued the COAs on these? How many have COAs? Where is the list of them by lot number, decal pic, COA, seller, date? How many passed through Hicks' hands? How many are there and is there a common connection or crossover point in their chain of trafficking? Much of this can be compiled by Internet search. Of course, that would be a hidden agenda and anarchy.
The Willi Z new and improved CRSS thread at 5 pages is now pretty sure the SS didn't airbrush rune decals on their helmets and everyone was fooled. There are no crooks, only victims. At that rate, unless a hobby anti-Christ (or is it anarchist?) posts something that Willi doesn't like to get the thread locked it will take about 20 more pages to conclude that CRSS runes were painted on some helmets that were too late to have decals. That thread has no hope of becoming revealing, substantive or helpful other than group therapy as it alternates between Willi approved navel gazing, hugging and self evident remarks.
Who issued the COAs on these? How many have COAs? Where is the list of them by lot number, decal pic, COA, seller, date? How many passed through Hicks' hands? How many are there and is there a common connection or crossover point in their chain of trafficking? Much of this can be compiled by Internet search. Of course, that would be a hidden agenda and anarchy.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell's_teapot
"Russell's teapot, sometimes called the celestial teapot or cosmic teapot, is an analogy first coined by the philosopher Bertrand Russell (1872–1970) to illustrate that the philosophic burden of proof lies upon a person making scientifically unfalsifiable claims rather than shifting the burden of proof to others, specifically in the case of religion. Russell wrote that, if he claims that a teapot orbits the Sun somewhere in space between the Earth and Mars, it is nonsensical for him to expect others to believe him on the ground that they cannot prove him wrong."
You can't prove me wrong, therefore I am right. Pretty much a steaming pile of crap.
Somewhere out there, a wartime CR SS is orbiting the sun, we just need to find it. Its been there for decades, beyond the power of us mere mortals to see. Only the authors have access to a powerful enough telescope....
"Russell's teapot, sometimes called the celestial teapot or cosmic teapot, is an analogy first coined by the philosopher Bertrand Russell (1872–1970) to illustrate that the philosophic burden of proof lies upon a person making scientifically unfalsifiable claims rather than shifting the burden of proof to others, specifically in the case of religion. Russell wrote that, if he claims that a teapot orbits the Sun somewhere in space between the Earth and Mars, it is nonsensical for him to expect others to believe him on the ground that they cannot prove him wrong."
You can't prove me wrong, therefore I am right. Pretty much a steaming pile of crap.
Somewhere out there, a wartime CR SS is orbiting the sun, we just need to find it. Its been there for decades, beyond the power of us mere mortals to see. Only the authors have access to a powerful enough telescope....
Worse, in proving them wrong you become a "troublemaker" and "hobby anarchist" (or is it anti-Christ?) with a "hidden agenda" and you are attacked and then silenced. It's the bizarro self-interested world of information and post control and censorship. The Champagne rune itself is a metaphor for the new and improved thread on it. Does it look like they really don't want to get to the bottom of this, but can't look like they aren't "discussing" it? So the result is much wind, repetition of what is already established, self evident questions and discussing the ridiculous. Some haven't even taken the time to read DougB's expose on it.
The 2500 pound gorilla sitting in the room with them is their lid god at the center of their Champagne rune universe, who authenticated them in his books over the last 30 years, who wrote COAs for them, who was connected with XRFacts, pitched XRFacts, and used XRFacts to authenticate the Champagne rune. Where is that discussion? It's funny, but they harrumphed harrumphed that a "database is not possible and won't achieve anything" but even that faux discussion is inextricably leading in that direction.
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M45
Well-known member
We have our C-SS database; it resides in the lot# book and shows helmets slotted numerically and how these do not fit with known factory production.
I had a thread locked on me at WAF. Yes, it is frustrating but what I did was simply open a new thread with the same name with a 'II' at the end. Then I continued posting as though nothing had happened. This action was NOT well received.
As far as the teapot story goes, I understand that Himmler wanted to claim the asteroid belt for the Fuehrer, so he put a C-SS helmet aboard a V-2 rocket. Airbrushed enamel was used for the runes so that the high heat/elements would bake-on the insignia.
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In addition to the points made above, one of the faults of these fora in general is that "anyone can play". I have watched for years without taking part in too many discussions as newcomers have jumped into discussions and promptly revealed their lack of knowledge. In many cases, within a year or less these same folks were being treated as experts and offering advice to other newcomers.
We all have to start somewhere, but it takes a good deal of time and hands-on experience to be an expert. One cannot do it solely on the basis of photos on forum websites - although these are valuable learning tools. The newcomers to which I refer usually acquire their status by closely following the opinions of whatever forum gods are currently in favor. Meanwhile those who have done real research are often denigrated when their findings do not comport with the received wisdom.
I have been collecting off and on since c.1960 and do not currently own any SS helmets. I have, however, been on the receiving end of criticism from on high. I have no problem admitting when I am wrong since truth is what we should be about. I do have serious problems when our betters can simply assert something as factual with no proof other than their masters' opinions.
-Mike
We all have to start somewhere, but it takes a good deal of time and hands-on experience to be an expert. One cannot do it solely on the basis of photos on forum websites - although these are valuable learning tools. The newcomers to which I refer usually acquire their status by closely following the opinions of whatever forum gods are currently in favor. Meanwhile those who have done real research are often denigrated when their findings do not comport with the received wisdom.
I have been collecting off and on since c.1960 and do not currently own any SS helmets. I have, however, been on the receiving end of criticism from on high. I have no problem admitting when I am wrong since truth is what we should be about. I do have serious problems when our betters can simply assert something as factual with no proof other than their masters' opinions.
-Mike
M45
Well-known member
Mike, you are no doubt aware that some forums are all about agendas and personalities. The militaria is only a venue for them to exert their 'control' over members, opinions and discussions.
They felt confident blathering on about what helmets did not exist, and being proved wrong repeatedly only made them angry and bitter when they should have been excited for the hobby, that such rare pieces do in fact exist.
Although much valuable information has been gathered from such places, IMO they are unworthy to be the guardians of our great hobby.
(BTW: still looking for that elusive M54 DDR KVP helmet)
They felt confident blathering on about what helmets did not exist, and being proved wrong repeatedly only made them angry and bitter when they should have been excited for the hobby, that such rare pieces do in fact exist.
Although much valuable information has been gathered from such places, IMO they are unworthy to be the guardians of our great hobby.
(BTW: still looking for that elusive M54 DDR KVP helmet)
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Thanks, gentlemen.
The best analogy I can think of at the moment is that of the members of a homeowners association who, never having had any authority in life, suddenly find that they can dictate many things to their neighbors. In any case the great Champagne Runes hoax has been very entertaining and it has been lovely to see that the emperor truly had no clothes.
Cheers,
Mike
The best analogy I can think of at the moment is that of the members of a homeowners association who, never having had any authority in life, suddenly find that they can dictate many things to their neighbors. In any case the great Champagne Runes hoax has been very entertaining and it has been lovely to see that the emperor truly had no clothes.
Cheers,
Mike
tjg79
Senior Member
The problem with HOAs is that most homeowners that serve on these HOA boards can't read very well. If they could read, they'd realize that most of their actions are invalid, because they don't have the authority.
My last condo association was effectively run by one woman. She would go around and collect everyone's "proxy" vote, so that they "could be represented" when the board elections took place, even though they wouldn't show in person. She was looking out for the condo owner's best interest, of course...
Anyhow, everyone who actually attended the meetings voted for one set of candidates, but she would use her proxy numbers to elect herself and her selected crew. They decided who the good neighbors were, who the "trouble makers" were, etc. At any time, there were at least two active lawsuits against/by the board and these various "anarchists" types.
The management sucked thoroughly. We ended up with with the condo's exterior wood being painted with what looked like interior latex eggshell paint that would rub off after a year... yea...
And any attempt to change the proxy system by amending the by-laws, so that you could only vote in person? lol. Right. I'm pretty sure that wasn't going to happen.
Unless the HOA is properly formed and filed with the appropriate reaolutions, etc. I've been on both sides of that, on the board and the complaint chairman. I resigned that because the majority of the disputes did not require a certified nastygram, just neighborly discussion.
I think certain forum moderators are far worse than HOA members I've dealt with, though I understand the similarities. My new 30 home neighborhood is old school 1950s with the houses staying in families. I think the neighborhood is the association.
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I'm going to cull the HOA stuff in a bit, unless y'all would like me to open an HOA thread 
I noticed that there is another "hobby anarchist" posting who is not going with the navel gazing taffy pulling rubber chicken toss-off. Nope, don't know him, but he's voicing my same opinion. Willi Z is going to get him at some point for such impertinence and a "hidden agenda".
http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=842946&page=5
I noticed that there is another "hobby anarchist" posting who is not going with the navel gazing taffy pulling rubber chicken toss-off. Nope, don't know him, but he's voicing my same opinion. Willi Z is going to get him at some point for such impertinence and a "hidden agenda".
http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=842946&page=5
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M45
Well-known member
http://www.world-war-helmets.com/fiche.php?q=Casque-Allemand-Mle-35
Here are some SS decals from a French website. The third photo of the SE/NS are C-SS.
Here are some SS decals from a French website. The third photo of the SE/NS are C-SS.
