DougB exposes "Champagne Rune" SS Decal Fraud and Adds a Coffin Nail to XRFacts

It's incredible that the waftards present so much low hanging fruit type examples of their waftardation.

How long before maui shows up on that thread to make it the classic example of WAF style intellectual Armageddon?
 
He showed up on the locked thread, pimping XRFacts, as would be expected. There are real fake "decals," and fake fake decals. Or something like that.
 

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Fakes were not around in the 1950s and 1960s guys. No way every helmet back then most be real guys that was too early only fakes are now starting to come out. Get real they were making fake SA daggers in Spain back in the late 40s all the way up till the 1960s. This stuff has been faked from day one when the war was declared over. If someone could make money on something sure enough there is going to be alot of fakes. And love the post about "who cares about fakes not a big point too me." Well tell that too the folks that were burned $10,000-$20,000 by your oh great leader Kelly.
 
What Warrior said. Walt Disney was faking German "camo" helmets in 1919 as souvenirs for Doughboys to take home. SS stuff was faked before the war was over, and Marines were faking Jap. flags and such to trade to sailors for booze and smokes while the war was going on.

I think the cause of some waftardation is the protection afforded insiders and assorted high post counters from having someone call bull$hit on them. Some of the claims are quite waftarded. The same attempts at argument here would get openly gooned.
 
tjg79 said:
Well, the Bob Coleman statement slams the door shut on the all C SS lids are fake assertion. The case must be closed with statements like that. maui wins! Although, Bob's location is Wonderland.
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Bob is probably a swell guy, recognize the name, but someone needs to produce the Champagne rune non-airbrushed fake. But wait, if Maui and Hicks tazed a real Champagne rune non-airbrushed fake to create their database, indeed, tazed more than a few to create their databases, then shouldn't they be able to produce pictures of them?

As the title of this thread states, this is the coffin nail for Maui's XRFacts claims and he did a very incoherent job of his singular (to date) attempt at a defense. I'd like to hear him explain it. He chirped in at WAF when ScottB and Nutmeg and WilliZ started in with the Hicks love and it looked like the idea that "there really are real Champagne rune SS decal helmets and the ones DougB found are fakes" looked like it could get some traction. Problem is, it was those Champagne rune lids that Doug examined I believe. So Maui and Hicks are still left with explaining the "authentication" of an airbrushed fake.
 
For my own sanity I've decided to move on from the shampain rune saga- I have to if I ever plan to get this last book done.
 
Hambone said:
Bob is probably a swell guy, recognize the name, but someone needs to produce the Champagne rune non-airbrushed fake. But wait, if Maui and Hicks tazed a real Champagne rune non-airbrushed fake to create their database, indeed, tazed more than a few to create their databases, then shouldn't they be able to produce pictures of them?

As the title of this thread states, this is the coffin nail for Maui's XRFacts claims and he did a very incoherent job of his singular (to date) attempt at a defense. I'd like to hear him explain it. He chirped in at WAF when ScottB and Nutmeg and WilliZ started in with the Hicks love and it looked like the idea that "there really are real Champagne rune SS decal helmets and the ones DougB found are fakes" looked like it could get some traction. Problem is, it was those Champagne rune lids that Doug examined I believe. So Maui and Hicks are still left with explaining the "authentication" of an airbrushed fake.
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Yes, if maui and KH tazed several C SS lids and at least one was legit per their claims, then it follows that fake air-brushed spray-jobs have the identical handheld XRF signature as legit celluloid decal C SS lids, because the fake C SS lids didn't raise any red flags during XRF testing and COA issuance. They must be near perfect fakes. The C SS lid faker must have anticipated somebody would discover XRF as a valuable authentication tool for lids, so he had the foresight to use a handheld XRF back in the 70s to perfectly match his artwork to a legit C SS lid. So, Doug B must have only examined fake C SS lids, several of which had been XRF certified, and drew a bogus conclusion that all C SS lids are spray-job fakes. It makes perfect WAFtard sense. KH and maui are likely waiting for the fake C SS lid outrage to reach a peak so that they can then present the legit C SS lids and make us all look like fools for doubting their ex-spurt opinions.

M45 had better get ready to publish revision 9 once the legit C SS lids start popping up.
 
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Just as with XRFacts in 2010, I believe that the Champagne rune matter at WAF is officially concluded with no substantive revelations other than navel gazing debates over whether someone in the 70s saw a real one or not. Willi Z has made it klear that any debate will be within His defined parameters and His konduct kode, thus the waftarded are happy and the other members at WAF know that no substantive and meaningful discussions will be had which will discover or resolve much of anything other than what DougB has already shown. That genie can't be shoved back in the bottle. Should any WAF member attempt to go farther, particularly as to the "who", they will be hectored, attacked, accused of having a "hidden agenda" and smeared as a "hobby anarchist". Who wants that? IMHO, going further is bad for business.

Farb is right to pull out and quit this as there is no upside to it there or here really. It's probably the most embarrassing and shameful episode in SS helmet collecting, or helmet collecting generally, that I've seen in my life. Unlike XRFacts and the real danger that virus would spread and infect our hobby too (e.g., Nutmeg's prophesy that XRFacts would be used to "authenticate blueing (sic)"), the Champagne rune is a virus wholly contained to that population of SS lid collectors. If they aren't embarrassed enough that they didn't discover with magnification that the CR was an airbrushed fraud, then shamed and silenced the guy who first did in 2012, and won't police their own hobby and clean up the mess, then they will suffer the consequences. Those lids they paid $7500 for today will be worth $2500 in 10 years. The problem is for us who collect helmets too. Hopefully that stink is not so bad, obvious, and so poorly handled that some of it gets on German helmet collecting generally. That's my reason for weighing in as I collect German helmets, thankfully no SS.

The real issue in all of this is the control and use of the Internet forum. That is where collectors get their information now, that is where their opinions and ideas are formed, that is where people become new members and the future of a hobby. The integrity and future of hobbies are being set forth now in the sites and forums. DougB did an outstanding and brave thing by standing up for the truth. Sadly, it doesn't appear to me that there is sufficient will from WAF for the necessary and appropriate follow through. I hope they prove me wrong. The next big clown shoe to drop will be when the $7,500 to $20,000 CR fraud owner of a now $300 helmet tries to get a refund.
 
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I don't think it's over yet, because there're a few WAFtards that claim they've seen legit decaled C SS lids. Just like with bigfoot and UFOs sightings, they refuse to concede to the overwhelming evidence that they're all fakes. Doug B claims he can prove any C SS lid in-hand is a fake. He's already done that with every example he's had in-hand of which several were COA'd by KH and XRF lid testing. M45's lot number study suggests they are all fakes. No one has produced a legit celluloid base decaled C SS lid for examination. Yet, it's now moved to the level of bigfoot sightings which can't be proved false without an example. Although, I think it's highly unlikely a legit example will ever be exhibited or proven to exist. How many more will claim they saw a legit C SS lid and how do they know they weren't looking at a spray-job fake? As long as there are those that have a financial interest in the existence of a legit C SS lid, then I think the legit C SS lid myth will persist. We'll just have to watch the lid dealer sites and auctions to see if their resale price reflects a reenactor equipment purchase or an uninformed collector purchase. It's important to keep the conversation going so that these threads will display prominently in Google searches. Hopefully, anyone considering dropping several thousand dollars for a C SS lid will do a bit of internet research to learn that the vast majority of lid collectors know that they are all fakes.
 
The two things WAF shut down in 2012 have a significant connection. What if instead of attacking him and locking it, WAF would have allowed ZAM's 2012 thread exposing a $20k Champagne rune as an airbrushed $300 humpjob to proceed as we did with XRFacts? It's amazing that no one caught this sooner.

I still think that without our discussion this will wither until perhaps a fraud victim tries to get a refund on a COA.

EDIT: BTW, at WAF a couple are into hysterical zone, stating that some claim Hicks invented XRFacts to cover for Champagne rune lids, then, being true detectives and junior lawyers, they state that can't be true because Champagne runes existed before XRFacts. That's simply reading comprehension failings and blather. No one I saw said that. What I and others believe, our opinions, are that DougB has shown Champagne runes are airbrushed humpjobs and XRFacts issued approvals of them and so did Hicks in conjunction with XRFacts and that at one time Hicks was a face man / connected with XRFacts. I believe the Champagne rune hoax and fiasco shows that XRFacts' claims are BS.
 
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There's a lot of mindless blather over there at WAF. That's why they're WAFtards.

I think we're still waiting for a more coherent rebuttal from Hicks and a celluloid based decal example of a "legit" C SS lid. The last incoherent rebuttal appeared to rely on XRF testing and vet stories. Hicks and maui are true believers in XRF lid testing. They're not interested in what they don't know. Hicks isn't dissuaded by everything that can be found on the world wide web or all the examples of XRFacts failures. Many WAFtards still place their faith in KH for authentications.

It's amazing that some still think there are legit C SS lids. It's both entertaining and tragic that such myths seem to be so resilient in the WAFtard community. It's a lid dealer's paradise over there.
 
We'll have to hear from Hicks on these things I reckon. Folks can speculate either way I guess. IMHO, it is astounding that no one ever thought to look at one of these CR "decals" under high magnification. It's truly amazing. Only a few at WAF are suffering from waftardation. They are loud enough that they seem to be in much larger numbers. No one else is going to stand up and say anything to be rewarded by public ridicule, attack, and a possible suspension or banning for daring to respond. Thus it goes. My bet is the discussion is now done at WAF. They went as far as they wanted, to come to a tentative agreement that DougB is correct, essentially repeating what he found. Everyone is a victim, everyone believed the CRSS was real, except a few, no one is to blame, it happened long ago, what difference does it make?
 
I think Farb did a great job over there. Did you notice ScottB attack him? ScottB is still a dick. And, yes, I would say that to his face just like anything I've ever posted I would say in person. The main problem with WAF is they don't have the collective will to sort this mess out and expose it all to sunlight. They seem to fear accountability and exposure. If you can't come to the correct conclusion on the C SS lid fiasco with all the supporting evidence, how can you be trusted on any hobby topic? Why would anyone go to WAF for an opinion?

Well, if they're not all WAFtards, then why do they stay over there as their primary forum? I think that if WAF is your primary go to forum, then you've got the early signs of WAFtardation.
 
nirvana said:
Pretty much, yea.

Aside from this forum, is anyone else still interested in the truth? WAF isn't the only forum out there.
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GWH2 is DougB's turf and is a good site. I believe this site was originally founded by guys needing an alternative to WAF:
http://www.ghw2.com/

For US, none better than Bugme's site, great guys. Scott (Bugme) helped us here on the XRFacts matter. It's interesting how it wasn't the WAF German helmet forum which kicked over the boards on XRFacts, but a US helmet site and this K98k site:
http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/

The best, most trustworthy forums are those without this megalomaniacal moderating and institutionalized arrogance among its high post count people. They disguise censorship of opinions they don't like as a "quest for civility". We are adults. Sometimes we argue. However, WAF raises butthurt to a new level of sensitivity, a censoring sensitivity. That lack of transparency adversely affects the trustworthiness of the information. One thing you don't see is any of them coming over here to protest or make their points. At least Maui did that, and while he didn't help his case, he certainly shed more light on the subject, his light and focus, so people could make up their own minds. Ole Vid did the same thing, in a bizarre kind of way. And I let them do it, without censorship. Did that butthurt anyone here or ruin anyone's day? Or are we all better off for seeing all angles, even the bizarre and insulting ones?
 
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