DougB exposes "Champagne Rune" SS Decal Fraud and Adds a Coffin Nail to XRFacts
- Thread starter Hambone
- Start date
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Han_van_Meegeren
Some of you all may be familiar with the guy. He was a famous art forger from France, and apparently did amazing work. When he was finally caught (an interesting story to itself), he confessed to forging a number of paintings. No one believed him. Even after he told them that he had made them himself, people believed that they were real. It wasn't until they placed him in a room and watched him create a duplicate that opinions began to change. He had created paint, aging techniques, etc, that fooled the art world completely. He more or less changed the way that art is authenticated, by himself. Its my understanding that some people who own his forgeries argue to this day that they are real, and that THEY own the REAL fake, and that the other fakes are fakes. Even after he confessed and was convicted in court, there are still the naysayers. Fools will always be foolish.
Some of you all may be familiar with the guy. He was a famous art forger from France, and apparently did amazing work. When he was finally caught (an interesting story to itself), he confessed to forging a number of paintings. No one believed him. Even after he told them that he had made them himself, people believed that they were real. It wasn't until they placed him in a room and watched him create a duplicate that opinions began to change. He had created paint, aging techniques, etc, that fooled the art world completely. He more or less changed the way that art is authenticated, by himself. Its my understanding that some people who own his forgeries argue to this day that they are real, and that THEY own the REAL fake, and that the other fakes are fakes. Even after he confessed and was convicted in court, there are still the naysayers. Fools will always be foolish.
There's always a level of sophistication in collectors. Some can see through the bullshit straight to the heart- then there are those that believe every vet story told no matter how ridiculous. Collecting in general (all genres) is and will always be made up of such diversity in sophistication.
M45
Well-known member
http://www.criticalpast.com/video/6...ad-car_trying-a-helmet_mortar-ammunition-case
Here is the Critical Past clip that started it all off, IMO. USAAF pilots visiting a burned out German train in March 1945 and discover boxcars full of M42 German Helmets.
From this clip (starting at about 1:00) we see un-issued M42s no-decal helmets. The color newsreel shows a fine textured slate gray color. Right near the end there is a close-up of a pilot putting on a helmet that shows the wavy metal near the scallop typical of CKL manufacture. The shot also shows the right side of the helmet where an SS decal would be, clearly showing that these never had any SS insignia.
It just so happens that unissued CKL ND M42s in slate gray are prevalent in collector's circles, many with the C-SS insignia.
Here is the Critical Past clip that started it all off, IMO. USAAF pilots visiting a burned out German train in March 1945 and discover boxcars full of M42 German Helmets.
From this clip (starting at about 1:00) we see un-issued M42s no-decal helmets. The color newsreel shows a fine textured slate gray color. Right near the end there is a close-up of a pilot putting on a helmet that shows the wavy metal near the scallop typical of CKL manufacture. The shot also shows the right side of the helmet where an SS decal would be, clearly showing that these never had any SS insignia.
It just so happens that unissued CKL ND M42s in slate gray are prevalent in collector's circles, many with the C-SS insignia.
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Well said. But to me for someone to suggest that perhaps the SS was airbrushing runes on helmets to look exactly like a decal after decals were ordered removed is far beyond unsophistication. It borders on psychosis or some mental pathology. I would hold that opinion even if the author of such a fantasy knows it to be fantastic bull$hit because that would require the author to be so arrogant or delusional as to believe others are so stupid or profoundly ignorant as to believe it. I'm embarrassed for anyone who would publicly post something like that.
mauser202
Senior Member
Maybe they did have time to paint them on, it's not like they were fighting a war or something....
Same lot of folks that still believe in Bigfoot and Nessie.
tjg79
Senior Member
I wouldn't lump Bigfoot and Nessie in with the C SS lid. We know the C SS lid is not real.
Well, perhaps Bigfoot and/or Nessie were captured and enslaved by the SS to secretly airbrush the runes on the helmet. If captured, who would believe Bigfoot or Nessie? Since you can't prove this isn't true, then it is.
101combatvet can buy a lot of champagne decal helmets for fair prices I think........
Notice he switched gears completely? IMHO, someone contacted him via PM and told him he was looking like the King O' Waftards.
101combatvet can buy a lot of champagne decal helmets for fair prices I think........
He may be wearing one as he types.
Evidence supporting my viewpoint on Champagne Runes:
By Kelly Hicks (as of 12-18-2015)
"As I show in SS-Steel, I vet purchased two of them in the early-mid 1970s. In my first book, SS Helmets, published in 1993, I show one or two M35s with champagne runes. One is an NS and one is an ET. There are color closeups of the decals, which show the celluloid underlay and other characteristics of ‘mainstream’ decals of a more conventional manufacture technique. So from the early-mid 70s to 1993, I had collected a total of 4 champagne rune bearing SS helmets, along with probably thirty five Q, and ET helmets. I did not even see my first EF pattern decal helmet until 1994, and while I thought it was inherently real, I had no point of reference on it. This was how asunder the analytical body of evidence on helmets was back then. With the internet the way it is today, you can learn 20 years’ worth of hard earned knowledge in about six months. (You can also un-learn a lot with the equally fast pace of mis-information nowadays.) There is no substitute for experience."
"In 2010, I encountered XRay Florescence technology, which I embraced as a potentially valuable authentication tool based on the purity of the technology. I participated in the creation of a large database of scans of all the SS helmets’ decals I could get my hands on, approximately 200 examples over a several month period. When we had more than three hundred examples in the database, we developed a mean, a ‘signature’ of the key elements that each decal was made of. This included champagne runes, which bear nearly the identical signature as a CA Pocher, with the exception of the presence of about 3% copper. I was astounded; this was to me the element that possibly accounts for the bronze color of this type of decal."
http://www.ss-steel-inc.com/SS Decal Variations10-15f.pdf
By Kelly Hicks (as of 12-18-2015)
"As I show in SS-Steel, I vet purchased two of them in the early-mid 1970s. In my first book, SS Helmets, published in 1993, I show one or two M35s with champagne runes. One is an NS and one is an ET. There are color closeups of the decals, which show the celluloid underlay and other characteristics of ‘mainstream’ decals of a more conventional manufacture technique. So from the early-mid 70s to 1993, I had collected a total of 4 champagne rune bearing SS helmets, along with probably thirty five Q, and ET helmets. I did not even see my first EF pattern decal helmet until 1994, and while I thought it was inherently real, I had no point of reference on it. This was how asunder the analytical body of evidence on helmets was back then. With the internet the way it is today, you can learn 20 years’ worth of hard earned knowledge in about six months. (You can also un-learn a lot with the equally fast pace of mis-information nowadays.) There is no substitute for experience."
"In 2010, I encountered XRay Florescence technology, which I embraced as a potentially valuable authentication tool based on the purity of the technology. I participated in the creation of a large database of scans of all the SS helmets’ decals I could get my hands on, approximately 200 examples over a several month period. When we had more than three hundred examples in the database, we developed a mean, a ‘signature’ of the key elements that each decal was made of. This included champagne runes, which bear nearly the identical signature as a CA Pocher, with the exception of the presence of about 3% copper. I was astounded; this was to me the element that possibly accounts for the bronze color of this type of decal."
http://www.ss-steel-inc.com/SS Decal Variations10-15f.pdf
M45
Well-known member
In my first book, SS Helmets, published in 1993, I show one or two M35s with champagne runes. One is an NS and one is an ET. There are color closeups of the decals, which show the celluloid underlay and other characteristics of ‘mainstream’ decals of a more conventional manufacture technique.
When we had more than three hundred examples in the database, we developed a mean, a ‘signature’ of the key elements that each decal was made of. This included champagne runes, which bear nearly the identical signature as a CA Pocher, with the exception of the presence of about 3% copper. I was astounded; this was to me the element that possibly accounts for the bronze color of this type of decal."
KH gives the impression that he is approaching the issue in a purely scientific fashion, but based on what is now known about the template spray-painted champagnes, the above statements are utter nonsense.
When we had more than three hundred examples in the database, we developed a mean, a ‘signature’ of the key elements that each decal was made of. This included champagne runes, which bear nearly the identical signature as a CA Pocher, with the exception of the presence of about 3% copper. I was astounded; this was to me the element that possibly accounts for the bronze color of this type of decal."
KH gives the impression that he is approaching the issue in a purely scientific fashion, but based on what is now known about the template spray-painted champagnes, the above statements are utter nonsense.
tjg79
Senior Member
KH is either lying, doesn't know what a celluloid underlay looks like, was fooled by residue, or was just plain talking out his a$$ as a lid guru. He could have been fooled by the previous decal's celluloid underlay that was removed to spray on the Champagne hue insignia. He needs to produce an example with celluloid base.
M45 I stand behind my quote in your signature line. They shouted down, censored and stopped the XRFacts (hoax) discussion in 2010; they shouted down and stopped the Champagne rune (hoax) discussion in 2012. Now we see the hoaxes intersect and some are trying to stop the discussion of that while at the same time moaning about the integrity of their hobby. That's the integrity problem right there. Some of them are a ridiculous bunch of codheads. I give the mods credit for allowing the discussion to continue, as they should. However, this is too big to stop.
That's the integrity problem right there. Some of them are a ridiculous bunch of codheads. I give the mods credit for allowing the discussion to continue, as they should. However, this is too big to stop.
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