Useful excerpts about soldiers disassembling K98k's, Waffenmeisters & field reworks

[M1903A3]

Here is an interesting excerpt from a document.

Commander for the rear army area - St. Qu., March 6, 1944

And right there is PROOF POSITIVE that individual soldiers were expressly forbidden to make any changes of any kind to their rifles. Thank you again for all your work in this area, this is great information!!


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[Stephan98k]

Barrel bulges and worn out barrels at rifles and machine guns

Another interesting excerpt from a document, this time about barrel bulges and worn out barrels at rifles and machine guns. Keep in mind that this order was given in 1944, shortly before the end of the war and in the years before it was handled differently. In the future I will go into the details.

Generalkommando IV.A.K. Abt.Qu. 716/44 geh. - O.U., June 12, 1944.

Generalkommando IV.A.K.
Abt.Qu. 716/44 geh.

O.U., June 12, 1944.

I didn't translate this and the following paragraphs

VII. Equipment.

1.) Barrel bulges at rifles and machine guns .

Barrel bulges only preclude the further use of barrels for shooting when the firing performance of the weapon is no longer sufficient or in machine guns. the function is impaired.
The same applies to worn out barrels.
Since the exchange of worn out barrels and such barrels with bulges is only possible to a limited extent, exchange within the Division must ensure that the flawless, goodfiring weapons are in the unit parts which are deployed in the HKL (main front) and weapons with bad barrels come to the baggage and supply troops.

 

[Stephan98k]

Payment of reward for return of weapons

In the occupied eastern territories the Wehrmacht paid reward for return to residents, as example for weapons.

I'm sorry, it's a bit off-topic but in my opinion it's very interesting and now we know what happened with all the weapons and equipment on the field.


Generalkommando VIII. Armeekorps Abt.Qu. - K.Gef.St., May 4, 1942.

Generalkommando VIII. Armeekorps
Abt.Qu.

K.Gef.St., May 4, 1942.

Special orders for the supply No. 30

I didn't translate this and the following paragraphs

VI. Equipment.

1.) Payment of reward for return to local resident.

It has been found necessary to pay financial reward for the locate of military equipment (weapons, equipment and ammunition) by residents in the occupied territories, in order to create an increased incentive to collect.

a) All residents in the occupied eastern territories will be paid a cash reward for the flawless first display of previously unknown or undetected weapons, ammunition or equipment at a German troop unit or a Ortskommandantur (German office), for which the sentences of the following guidelines may serve as a guide. For items that are not listed here, the Army will determine rewards on a case-by-case basis.

b) Prerequisite for the payment of the reward is that the notification leads to the correct identification and registration of the object, and that it's in a usable condition.

The Army reserves the right, even in the case of unusable items, to pay part of the rewards specified in the attachment.

It must also be first-time findings and applications.

c) When assessing the rewards, not only the value of the item, but also the difficulties of finding or other special circumstances have to be considered.

d) The population should be requested to report to the nearest unit or to the nearest Orts- or Feldkommandantur. These determine by inquiries at the next Beutedienststelle (capture-office) or Beutesammelstelle (capture-collectingpoint), whether this is a first-time report. Then they set the reward and arrange the payout to the finder.

Reports of units, Orts- and Feldkommandanturen, etc. on detected weapons, ammunition or equipment etc. are to be sent directly to Feldzeugstab 37 in Kharkov.

e) Field report and suggestions for amendments to June 15, 1942 at AOK 6 / IVa
a.d.D.
(OKH /GenStdH/GenQu. Az. I/498B (Qu 3/III) IVa (III, 1)
Nr. I/ 16971/42 (from April 5, 1942).

Guidelines for payment of reward for return.

For rifles (per piece) 1.00 Reichsmark
" M.P. (per piece) 1.50 Reichsmark
" M.G. (per piece) 4.00 Reichsmark
" Horse-drawn motorized vehicles, limbers etc. (per piece) 6.00 Reichsmark
" Light anti-tank gun and heavy infantry weapons (per piece) 8.00 Reichsmark
“ Heavy ordnance (per piece) 10.00 Reichsmark
“ Ammunition of all kinds (per 50 kilogram) 0,20 Reichsmark
“ Cartridges and cases brass (per 50 kilogram) 2.00 Reichsmark
“ Canisters, gasoline barrels, other metal containers (per 50 kilogram) 1.00 Reichsmark
“ Motor vehicle ceiling (per piece) 0,50 Reichsmark
“ Uni-canister (per piece) 0,50 Reichsmark

The guidelines can be changed according to local conditions. When finding whole storange lump sums are to be fixed, which give sufficient incentive for the announcement of the total quantities. The lump sum may not exceed 100.00 Reichsmark and shall be determined by the AOK for each individual case.

The total amount of the reward for return may under no circumstances exceed 100.00 Reichsmark.

As far as the local conditions allow, the funds are to be administered in food;
for 1.00 Reichsmark, for example, 1 kilogram of buckwheat, secondary flour or millet can be spent. However, the necessary food must not be taken from stocks intended for troop feeding.

 

[M1903A3]

In the occupied eastern territories the Wehrmacht paid reward for return to residents, as example for weapons.

I'm sorry, it's a bit off-topic but in my opinion it's very interesting and now we know what happened with all the weapons and equipment on the field.


Generalkommando VIII. Armeekorps Abt.Qu. - K.Gef.St., May 4, 1942.

Wow. This is the first I have ever seen anything concerning material lost on the battlefield. This implies that locals often enough took stuff that it was felt useful to offer rewards!! It’s not off topic at all!! Thank you for this! You’re doing invaluable work.


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[runner]

Wow. This is the first I have ever seen anything concerning material lost on the battlefield. This implies that locals often enough took stuff that it was felt useful to offer rewards!! It’s not off topic at all!! Thank you for this! You’re doing invaluable work.


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I agree, great information, thanks for posting.

 

[Stephan98k]

Lost weapons

You are very welcome! A while ago I already showed something about this topic, for clarity I will show it here again.


Army Decree-Sheet published by the Army High Command - Berlin, October 15, 1940

1066. Loss or damage to service equipment which had been used by killed in action or deceased members of the Wehrmacht.

In the case of loss or damage to clothing and equipment as well as to weapons, which had killed in action or deceased members of the Wehrmacht in official service use, a demand on the bereaved (heirless) for the compensation for lost value may not be carried out.

O.K.W., October 8, 1940
---- 2 f 32/Beih. 1 ---- WB (IX a).

General Army Communications published by the Army High Command - Berlin, October 7, 1944

543. Preservation of the weapons and the equipment.

A. In order to avoid intolerable loss of material, on August 8, 1944 the Chief of the Army General Staff ordered with directive Gen Qu/Abt. III/Qu 3 Nr. I/74900/44 g:

1. Anyone, whether an officer, an noncommissioned officer, a soldier, or a follower, who has his machine gun, his small arms, or his gas mask

a) lost,

b) careless left behind when wounded (the responsible doctors decide),

c) in the case of relocation to a new service place not in possession, is to be accountable.

2. For the loser not applicable regardless of the disciplinary or court martial penalty:

a) for a period of one year leave, exception: special leave in cases of death

b) the right to attribution of sales articles for soldiers of any kind, including tabaccos for the next 1/2 year.

3. Refunding must be made in any case. The following amounts must be paid:

for machine gun .................................................. ............. 120 R.M.
'' M. P. 44 .................................................. ..................... 80 ''
'' Rifle and machine pistol .................................................. . 50 ''
'' Pistols .................................................. ........................ 30 ''
'' Gas mask .................................................. .................... 20 ''

B. In addition is determined:

1. The following is to be entered on the last page of the Soldbuch:

"Lost of a machine gun at .......................................
vacation ban until .................................................. "

2. The transcribe permission gives the battalion commander according to H. V. Bl. (Army Decree-Sheet) 1942 section B No. 931, he let check out the entry according to cipher 1.

3. The disposal of a "dutiful declaration" which has so far generally been common in the case of losses is no longer to be accepted.

4. This order is to be announced quarterly to all the soldiers and followers of the Field- and Replacement Army. The briefing has to get recorded.

O. K. H. (Ch H Rüst u. BdE), September 16, 1944
---- 41194/44 g ---- AHA/Stab I b 4.

General Army Communications published by the Army High Command - Berlin, November 7, 1944

643. Correction.

In the H. M. 1944 page 297 No. 543 there is to write:
In the title: “Preservation of the weapons and the equipment” (instead of
“reimbursement”), in paragraph 3, 4. line:
“M. P. 44” (instead of M. G. 42).

O. K. H., Obtober 20, 1944
---- 3362 b ---- Gen St d H/Gen Qu/Abt. III/Qu 3/WuG/Z.

 

[M1903A3]

You are very welcome! A while ago I already showed something about this topic, for clarity I will show it here again.


Army Decree-Sheet published by the Army High Command - Berlin, October 15, 1940



General Army Communications published by the Army High Command - Berlin, October 7, 1944




General Army Communications published by the Army High Command - Berlin, November 7, 1944

Wow! Thank you so much. This kind of information is invaluable, it gives us pieces of what must have been happening in combat. Any glimpse we can get of the swirling, nightmarish Eastern Front is of great service.


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[Stephan98k]

Wow! Thank you so much. This kind of information is invaluable, it gives us pieces of what must have been happening in combat. Any glimpse we can get of the swirling, nightmarish Eastern Front is of great service.

You are very welcome and I agree with you. The title of the thread is "Useful excerpts about soldiers disassembling K98k's, Waffenmeisters & field reworks", but sometimes you have to go further to describe a situation and to get new answers. I have distanced myself a bit from the original topic, but the coming documents are important and in the end they lead back to the original theme.

 

[Stephan98k]

Collecting operation - Brody

Here is another document concerning material lost on the battlefield, it's from April 1944. Around three months later, in mid- July the Red Army launched the Lvov-Sandomierz Strategic Offensive Operation to force the German troops from Ukraine and Eastern Poland. Among other targets it led to the encirclement at Brody. My grandfather's brother is missed in action since these days, his division was destroyed in the Brody Pocket.

The most important part of the document is in paragraph "a". But I also translated paragraph "b" because the order surprised me a bit.

In addition I have attached a map and I marked the city Brody. In the document two "Muna's" (ammunition depots) are mentioned, Muna Suchodoly is located 10 kilometer south-west of Brody and Muna Chwatow is located 25 kilometer south-west of Brody.



Korpsabteilung C Ib - O.U., April 19, 1944

Korpsabteilung C
Ib

O.U., April 19, 1944.

Special orders for the supply No. 20

1.) Universal.

a) Collecting operation:

The former battlefield area in Brody and the area of the baggage are chock-full with German and Russian weapons, ammunition and equipment. Although the majority of these items are no longer usable, so in most cases useful spare parts can be taken out. Since the collecting commandos used by the Korpsabteilung are not sufficient to cover the entire area, the troops must help in their areas and their sections with all available means and forces at the collecting operation and stack the collected objects therewith the specially used vehicles can bring the objects to the capture-collecting-point (Muna Suchodoly).
For empty runs in the rear division area capture objects are to take up to Muna Chwatow.
No vehicle may drive in any direction without it being used for the collecting operation.

b) Avoidance of field damage:

The troops must be instructed to avoid damage to the land outside of the actual combat zone and to continue to use only once or even existing routes, even if this makes small detours.
The collection of capture weapons and equipment, as well as the build of all-around defenses are to be carried out with the least possible damage to the crops.

I didn't translate the following paragraphs

 

[nirvana]

Here is another document concerning material lost on the battlefield, it's from April 1944. Around three months later, in mid- July the Red Army launched the Lvov-Sandomierz Strategic Offensive Operation to force the German troops from Ukraine and Eastern Poland. Among other targets it led to the encirclement at Brody. My grandfather's brother is missed in action since these days, his division was destroyed in the Brody Pocket.

Off topic, if these are bad questions, I will apologize and retract them. I'm curious as to how this worked in Germany during and after the war. When was your "great-uncle" (the English-language term) declared to be dead? How did the government treat this process, in terms of family benefits public memorials? In the US, it looks like people were generally declared to be dead one year and one day after they went missing.

 

[Stephan98k]

Off topic, if these are bad questions, I will apologize and retract them. I'm curious as to how this worked in Germany during and after the war. When was your "great-uncle" (the English-language term) declared to be dead? How did the government treat this process, in terms of family benefits public memorials? In the US, it looks like people were generally declared to be dead one year and one day after they went missing.

I'm not an expert in this field, but I think there is no legal compulsion for a death declaration. But for practical reasons, a death declaration was applied to get a pension or to remarry. My great-uncle was declared to be dead in the 90's. My great-aunt never married again, all the years she had hope her husband is a prisoner of war and will eventually come home.
Something like that has happened more often than you think. A few years ago, a German fighter pilot was found with his machine not far from my house. His widow has been waiting for her husband all the years, she was about 90 years old when her husband got declared to be dead and his funeral was nearby on a cemetery.

In general there are still many traces of the war in my area. Unfortunately many soldiers graves get removed, this grave existed in my city until a few years ago.


The older houses have almost all traces of the war, like this barn house from a artillery attack. My wife took this photo around 14 days ago.

 

[Stephan98k]

Cannibalize of weapons, equipment and vehicles - spare parts

Very interesting for us is this document from June 1944.


Generalkommando IV. A.K. Abt. Qu. - O.U., June 5, 1944

Generalkommando IV. A.K.
Abt. Qu.

O.U., June 5, 1944.

Special orders for the supply and for the supply troops No. 29.

I didn't translate this and the following paragraphs

2.) Recovery of spare parts.

The need for spare parts for weapons, heavy ordnance, vehicles and important types of equipment can not be fully met, despite greater performance of the new manufacturing. It is therefore the extraction of spare parts from field unusable
weapons and equipment of particular importance. In addition, damaged items obtained by cannibalize must be properly repaired and used as new spare parts by all means.
The shorter life of such spare parts must be taken into account.
The troops and in particular all the Waffenmeister and workshop supervisors are to be instructed that all accumulated parts of weapons and equipment, whether they be useful or damaged, are not thrown away, but collected and delivered to the Geräteausgabestelle (Equipment-delivery-point) of the Korps or the Division.
The Divisions cause the forwarding to the Feldwerkstatt 673 – Best. Bhf. Bobruisk/West.

---------------------------

 

[Stephan98k]

Beutewaffen ammunition

Here is a document about the use of Russian Beutewaffen respectively ammunition for these weapons.


Korpsabteilung C Ib - O.U., June 14, 1944

Korpsabteilung C
Ib

O.U., June 14, 1944.

Special orders for the supply No. 34

I didn't translate this and the following paragraphs

6.) Equipment.

Gen.St.d.H /Gen.Qu announces that the supply of ammunition is no longer guaranteed for the following weapons:

Pistol (r)
M.P. (r)
Rifle (r)
M.G. (r)
Pz.Bü. 38/39 (r)
Pz.Bü. (r)
le.Gr.W. 36 (r)
5,2 cm Gr.W. 205 (r)

After consumption of the existing ammunition, the weapons are to be pulled out of the
deployment and delivered to the equipment depot of the K.A.C. WuG.

-----------------------------------

 

[M1903A3]

Here is another document concerning material lost on the battlefield, it's from April 1944. Around three months later, in mid- July the Red Army launched the Lvov-Sandomierz Strategic Offensive Operation to force the German troops from Ukraine and Eastern Poland. Among other targets it led to the encirclement at Brody. My grandfather's brother is missed in action since these days, his division was destroyed in the Brody Pocket.

The most important part of the document is in paragraph "a". But I also translated paragraph "b" because the order surprised me a bit.

In addition I have attached a map and I marked the city Brody. In the document two "Muna's" (ammunition depots) are mentioned, Muna Suchodoly is located 10 kilometer south-west of Brody and Muna Chwatow is located 25 kilometer south-west of Brody.

View attachment 176285

Korpsabteilung C Ib - O.U., April 19, 1944

This is amazing to read, to think of the battlefield now quiet and yet strewn “chock-full” of weapons and ammunition, what must it have been like? I am sorry for the loss of your family member as well, all those who die in wars deserve to be acknowledged and remembered by those who loved them! You honor him as well as the others by preserving the memories and the facts, the photo of that single lone grave speaks volumes to the real effects of war.


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[Stephan98k]

Shortage of spare parts for Pistole 08 & Pistole 38

When you read the following order, keep in mind the post #73: Cannibalize of weapons, equipment and vehicles - spare parts

Generalkommando Kleffel Abt. Qu. - K.Gef.St., October 26, 1944

Generalkommando Kleffel
Abt. Qu.,

K.Gef.St., October 26, 1944.

Special orders for the supply No. 20.

I didn't translate this and the following paragraphs

V. Weapons and equipment.

4.) Spare parts for pistols.

a.) Production of the Pistole 08 runs out. Spare parts requests can only be met in part.

b.) Spare part production for Pistole 38 is running. Requests can currently be met by about 25%. Improvement is to be expected.

...............................

 

[GunKraut]

Thank you very much for your really interesting contributions. As for the cannibalized parts sent back from the battle fields, are there further instructions as to repair (straighten, reblue, weld?) them and is there any mention of lining out or scrubbing existing serial numbers before feeding the spares back into the supply system?

 

[Stephan98k]

Beutewaffen - Report 24. Infanterie Division - October 1944

I have the complete original report for October 1944 from the 24. Inf.Div. (24th Infantry Division) and I show a excerpt of it, so you can better understand the situation. Please note the text which I marked in red color.



Report 24. Infanterie Division - October 1944

Military formation: 24. Infanterie Division
Assignment: Gen.Kdo. L. A.K.

Report of November 1, 1944

Staff situation on the deadline of the report:

a) Staff

Officer: 273 (Target) - 130 (Deficit)
Noncommissioned officer: 2,081 (Target) - 540 (Deficit)
Soldiers: 7,773 (Target) - 2,246 (Deficit)
Volunteer: 1,507 (Target) - 972 (Deficit)

A total of: 11,634 (Target) - 3,888 (Deficit)

b) Losses and other disposals
In the period from October 1 to October 31, 1944

Officer: 5 (Killed in action) - 27 (Wounded in action) - 2 (Missed in action) - 2 (Sick) - 19 (Miscellaneous)
Noncommissioned officer: 47 (Killed in action) - 148 (Wounded in action) - 40 (Missed in action) - 22 (Sick) - 134 (Miscellaneous)
Soldiers: 180 (Killed in action) - 765 (Wounded in action) - 292 (Missed in action) - 111 (Sick) - 574 (Miscellaneous)

A total of: 232 (Killed in action) - 940 (Wounded in action) - 334 (Missed in action) - 135 (Sick) - 727 (Miscellaneous)

c) Replacement received during the reporting period

Officer: 17 (Replacement) - 0 (Recovered)
Noncommissioned officer: 106 (Replacement) - 37 (Recovered)
Soldiers: 1,023 (Replacement) - 263 (Recovered)

Weapons

Anti-tank gun Pak 40 7,5 cm: 19 (Target) - 5 (Combat-ready)
Machine guns: 569 (Target) - 153 (Combat-ready)


4. Short value judgment of the commander:

The training of the infantry could be lifted in short combat breaks by weapon-training in the combat position. Likewise, training of radio operators, anti-tank gunners and anti-tank-close clombat was carried out to a limited extent. Combat training was still not feasible. NCO training in Division combat-school could only extend to training of rank and Air Force replacements, as the Grenadier Battalions can not provide suitable human material. Supply of NCO is urgently desired.

Officers-replacement-situation, in the first place completely inadequate with regard to useful company commanders. The combat value of the troop, the rather good, but inexperienced and barely infantry trained replacement which is supplied, could be decisively lifted by efficient company commanders, crises in most situations from the outset be avoided.

The equipment with machine guns is not sufficient even with current combat strengths. Replenishment with Russian, Czech, Italian, etc. machine guns is only a very inadequate replacement, since spare parts and accessories are not supplied to the extent necessary.

The Füs.Btl. (A.A.) 24 has been re-deployed and has worked well in combat.

Mood of the troop: serious, determined, confident. The Grenadiers show despite insufficient training under good leaders again and again excellent fighting will.

Health condition: average.

Mobility: Horse-drawn 100 %, motorized 95 %

The Division is suitable for defense.

<signature Division Commander>


5. Short statement of the superior authority:
Gen.Kdo. L. A.K.

Despite noticeable shortages of officers and NCOs, the Division has strengthened considerably in the reporting period.
The leadership is deliberate and clear.
Combat value, due to high shortage and lack of machine guns
"Conditionally suitable for defense"

<signature Generalleutnant M.d.F.b.>


Weapons in the Division that are not shown in the Kriegsgliederung:

4,234 Bayonet 84/98
4,556 Karabiner 98k
57 Gewehr 98
8 Scoped rifles
56 Gewehr 41 & Gewehr 43
110 Rifle grenade device
104 Flare gun
1,092 Pistole 08 & Pistole 38
396 Other pistols
242 M.P. 38 & M.P. 40
38 M.P. 44
5 M.P.(i) for German ammunition
10 M.P.(r) for German ammunition
31 M.P.(r) for German ammunition
33 8,8 cm R.Pz.B. 54.

 

[Stephan98k]

Thank you very much for your really interesting contributions. As for the cannibalized parts sent back from the battle fields, are there further instructions as to repair (straighten, reblue, weld?) them and is there any mention of lining out or scrubbing existing serial numbers before feeding the spares back into the supply system?

You are very welcome! I'm also looking for answers to the questions you ask, but so far I couldn't find anything definite. Until now I've reviewed over 3,000 documents and that's just a small fraction.

 

[tsmgguy]

Really illuminating information, thanks.

The US was the only major combatant nation with separate, well developed programs for in-theater materials and weapons salvage, refurbishing, and reissue. This was mostly accomplished by US Army Ordnance and service and supply troops. Huge depots were set up in Europe and North Africa for these operations, with recovery occurring as far forward as possible. It's a vast story, all in itself. Sounds like the Germans expected their combat troops to perform at least some of these functions.

Of course, salvage, refurbishment, and reissue became impossible if materials were located on ground lost in retrograde operations.

 

[timothy]

I'd like to thank you too 8X57 for your great knowledge and time put into this. I have learned quite a lot from this. timothy