Many have tried to prove the existence of the Russian SVT-40 Carbine being produced in any type of numbers. If you could find those capture documents that would be great to see.
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Useful excerpts about soldiers disassembling K98k's, Waffenmeisters & field reworks
- Thread starter mrfarb
- Start date
Many have tried to prove the existence of the Russian SVT-40 Carbine being produced in any type of numbers. If you could find those capture documents that would be great to see.
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Stephan98k
aka 8x57IS
SVT-40 rifles in German anti-partisan hunting commandos
I could find a very interesting document. Reichsführer-SS Heinrich Himmler want to deploy anti-partisan hunting commandos and he specifically demands "Russian self-loading rifles with scope". Certainly SVT-40 with scope - Selbstlade-Zielfernrohrgewehr 260 (r).
Reichsführer-SS Kommandostab RF-SS Tgb.Nr. Ia 607/42 geh. - St.Qu., August 29, 1942
I could find a very interesting document. Reichsführer-SS Heinrich Himmler want to deploy anti-partisan hunting commandos and he specifically demands "Russian self-loading rifles with scope". Certainly SVT-40 with scope - Selbstlade-Zielfernrohrgewehr 260 (r).
Reichsführer-SS Kommandostab RF-SS Tgb.Nr. Ia 607/42 geh. - St.Qu., August 29, 1942
mike radford
Senior Member
I stand corrected. Thanks.
Stephan98k
aka 8x57IS
Stocks for carbines and rifles & Renaming Gewehr 43 and M.P.43.
In my post #61 I showed a document by Generalkommando XX.A.K. from March 14, 1944: Link
Here is another document about the same topic around 7 months later by Generalkommando XXIII. A.K., from October 30, 1944.
Generalkommando XXIII. A.K. Abt.Qu. - K.H.Qu., October 30, 1944
In my post #61 I showed a document by Generalkommando XX.A.K. from March 14, 1944: Link
Here is another document about the same topic around 7 months later by Generalkommando XXIII. A.K., from October 30, 1944.
Generalkommando XXIII. A.K. Abt.Qu. - K.H.Qu., October 30, 1944
Stephan98k
aka 8x57IS
Renaming M.P.44 to Sturmgewehr 44
In post #105 we could read, the OKH has ordered the final designation M.P.44 for the M.P.43. The new and final designation was not long lasting, Adolf Hitler changed it.
Generalkommando XXIII. A.K. Abt.Qu. - K.H.Qu., December 1, 1944
In post #105 we could read, the OKH has ordered the final designation M.P.44 for the M.P.43. The new and final designation was not long lasting, Adolf Hitler changed it.
Generalkommando XXIII. A.K. Abt.Qu. - K.H.Qu., December 1, 1944
M1903A3
Keeper of the Def's Head
Most interesting! So even at this early date the capabilities of the Soviet auto loader with scope were realized! I would not have imagined that setting up special squads would ever have dictated use of captured rifles! It makes me wonder what quantity of these were being seen and/or captured at this time. Great info, thank you!!
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Warrior1354
ax - hole
Enjoyed the read as well. Rifle sounds like it was pressed more into service as a DMR weapon for these units. Not the best piece for long range sniping but if your wanted too hit some well aimed shots fast with a scope it works.
Stephan98k
aka 8x57IS
In the first days of Operation Barbarossa not many self-loading rifles were captured, the majority was Mosin Nagant rifles. I have a lot war booty reports and the numbers of self-loading rifles grow in the end of 1941. I have to check out if I can find some self-loading rifles with scope, until now I just saw captured Zielfernrohrgewehre (rifles with scope).
It's a lot of work to look through thousands of documents and even when I find interesting informations, it's overwhelming to order all these informations. As example I have already found a lot of information about sniper. Still in fall 1944, the small amount of sniper rifles was criticized and in winter 1944 the amount of sniper rifles grow a bit. I have documents about types of sniper operations, the names of the snipers and their kill quota. In beginning of 1945 they had even something like a contest, the Division Commanders got the order to put the sniper kills in their daily report and you can see many of them. For a certain number of kills the snipers got extra holiday, even gifts like a watch. It's also mentioned how many kills they needed to get the sniper badge, other documents are about the delivery of the sniper badge and other awards.
There are many other interesting things, as example a commendation of a General to a Leutnant, who was shooting down a Russian Ilyushin Il-2 Sturmovik with his Sturmgewehr 44.
Stephan98k
aka 8x57IS
I didn't open link yet but Russian has letters we dont. German same letters but also umlaut.
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Stephan98k
aka 8x57IS
It is a joint project of Russian and German archives. The documents are in Russian archives since they was captured in 1945.
Stephan98k
aka 8x57IS
The Russian government was unwilling to return the captured documents to Germany, but they wanted to show their goodwill and provide the files for research in this way. I have already heard from some people that the Russians have only released documents which shows the inhumane behavior of the German Wehrmacht. That's absolute nonsense, nothing was censored and nothing is one-sided.
I have found documents that show inhumane behavior, from German and Russian side. The German soldiers was often shocked about the inhumane behavior of Russian commanders, in particular political commissars, against their own troops. There were thousands of Russian deserter who was running to the German side because the political commissars shot their own troops in the back when they couldn't go forward under heavy German fire.
As example on August 2, 1941 the Russians attacked the German 79th Infantry-Division and the half of the Russian attackers was already dead, the attack slowed down. The Germans was surprised and shocked because the last soldiers got shot aimed from the rear with machine guns.
I have a report from August 13, 1941 about a few Russian soldiers who had German flyer about to desert and surrender to the German troops. The political commissars didn't executed only the few soldiers, they let shot the whole unit with around 150 soldiers.
Other documents from German Commanders are about German soldiers who beat Russian prisoner of war. The German officers and soldiers who beat or even shot the Russian POW got a court martial. They came to penal unit, prison and some got capital punishment.
To the rumors of derelict salt mines full of weapons - Of course I can not prove it, but I think it's just rumors. Friendly states of the USSR got these weapons, for example the arsenals in Ukraine were full. From 1990, the last big stocks in Russia were sold.
I have found documents that show inhumane behavior, from German and Russian side. The German soldiers was often shocked about the inhumane behavior of Russian commanders, in particular political commissars, against their own troops. There were thousands of Russian deserter who was running to the German side because the political commissars shot their own troops in the back when they couldn't go forward under heavy German fire.
As example on August 2, 1941 the Russians attacked the German 79th Infantry-Division and the half of the Russian attackers was already dead, the attack slowed down. The Germans was surprised and shocked because the last soldiers got shot aimed from the rear with machine guns.
I have a report from August 13, 1941 about a few Russian soldiers who had German flyer about to desert and surrender to the German troops. The political commissars didn't executed only the few soldiers, they let shot the whole unit with around 150 soldiers.
Other documents from German Commanders are about German soldiers who beat Russian prisoner of war. The German officers and soldiers who beat or even shot the Russian POW got a court martial. They came to penal unit, prison and some got capital punishment.
To the rumors of derelict salt mines full of weapons - Of course I can not prove it, but I think it's just rumors. Friendly states of the USSR got these weapons, for example the arsenals in Ukraine were full. From 1990, the last big stocks in Russia were sold.
I generally agree, there are probably not salt mines full of weapons. However, some things stand out to me: Where are the G-43s, MG-42s, and FG-42s? Where are the smaller caliber German pistols (Mausers, etc)? The Soviet do not appear to have handed these weapons out to satellite states during the Cold War, and I have not seen any come out of the east as surplus or demilled parts. They have to be somewhere. Where are they? While some STG-44s were handed out, I would assume that more of them were captured, although they could be gone as well.
Anyone have any thoughts? I had heard that some importers had been offered the G-43s back in the later '90s, but that the prices that were being asked were just way too high.
Anyone have any thoughts? I had heard that some importers had been offered the G-43s back in the later '90s, but that the prices that were being asked were just way too high.
I've heard the same rumors about caches of German Firearms being offered at prices too high to make any money. Not too long ago a pic of one of those supposed caches was release online. I believe there are plenty of firearms still in Russia and former satellite states.
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Great info, and I am not surprised. Russians are ruthless. I have many reasons for not collecting Russian Weapons, unless used by the Finns against them.
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Warrior1354
ax - hole
