Questionable SS Helmets

This thread has been interesting and educational for someone, like myself, who knows next to nothing regarding helmets, other than I hated wearing them. And I thought K98k's were bad as far as humpers are concerned. The K98k's are bad, so bad that 2/3 of "matching" K98k rifles may be humped. This would correlate with the suggestion in this thread that suggested 2/3 of all German helmets are faked. If these numbers are even close to being correct, it is a damned shame and an insult to history.


KJ
 
KJ, the difference is that we have a very good cadre of collectors on the K98k side who support each other and the integrity of the hobby. Our site is transparent and the mods here do it right. There is no reason for anyone to get burned by humper if they participate here and take the time to learn a little. I can't say the same for the helmet side.
 
Thanks for a great thread! Original SS helmets were a rarity fifty years ago. A usually knowledgeable buddy bought two very expensive double decal SS M35s out of an "old" collection about twenty years ago and added them to his. Within the past few months he learned that both are fakes.
 
Thanks for a great thread! Original SS helmets were a rarity fifty years ago. A usually knowledgeable buddy bought two very expensive double decal SS M35s out of an "old" collection about twenty years ago and added them to his. Within the past few months he learned that both are fakes.

Not all that rare IMO, I buy about 2 (or more) a year from area vets and families. Paratrooper helmets are much harder to come by maybe one every 2-4 years.
 
C-ss camo ?

ebay item# 222217465810
Starting bid:
US $650.00
[ 0 bids ]

Place bid

Enter US $650.00 or more
Price:
US $2,500.00
Buy It Now
 

Attachments

  • aaa 123 decal ii.jpg
    aaa 123 decal ii.jpg
    295.2 KB · Views: 39
  • aaa 123 decal.jpg
    aaa 123 decal.jpg
    285.6 KB · Views: 33
  • aaa 123 front.jpg
    aaa 123 front.jpg
    272.5 KB · Views: 18
  • aaa 123 liner.jpg
    aaa 123 liner.jpg
    289.7 KB · Views: 20
  • aaa 123 ls.jpg
    aaa 123 ls.jpg
    277.1 KB · Views: 22
  • aaa 123 rear.jpg
    aaa 123 rear.jpg
    261.8 KB · Views: 22
  • aaa 123 stamp.jpg
    aaa 123 stamp.jpg
    200.7 KB · Views: 24
Paratroopers have always been hard to find, even during the 50s. Unfortunately, the WWII generation has been passing on at an increased rate and items they wouldn't have sold fifteen years ago are hitting the market. In a large VFW post, we have only a few WWII guys left and I'm glad to see them at every meeting and wonder how many more they'll make. One who flew a B-29 out of Saipan still turns out for color guard! A buddy who was a VA volunteer driver used to help me find really good pieces but he's gone too.
 
Fake Allgemeine SS M35

Here's an allgemeine M35 that I've hung on to. It's a complete repaint, including the early war apple green undercoat and interior. The decals are French made repros. Fitted with original early war liner.







 
Fake SS M40 SD

This is a SS M40. The overall appearance is very good. Look at the pics below FIRST to get an impression, then come back up to the discussion.


Would easily fool a novice or even experienced collector unfamiliar with SS helmets. But on closer examination there are some suspect issues to look for in fakes. The decal is a French-made good quality fake. These will fool some, but smart decal guy's will spot them. There's other problems with this helmet. Can you figure them out? Look at it again.

First mistake is it's a 1st pattern runes decal on an ET helmet (recognizable from the air vent). Most ETs have 2nd pattern runes. The set-up on this helmet is generally a no-no. Now look at the close-up shot showing the decal but look closely at the paint. See the texture? It dried on with a blotted-paint texture rather than a true gritty alumina texture. Not enough grit was mixed in with the paint. That's the other flaw.







 
Last edited:
This is a SS M40. The overall appearance is very good. Look at the pics below FIRST to get an impression, then come back up to the discussion.


Would easily fool a novice or even experienced collector unfamiliar with SS helmets. But on closer examination there are some suspect issues to look for in fakes. The decal is a French-made good quality fake. These will fool some, but smart decal guy's will spot them. There's other problems with this helmet. Can you figure them out? Look at it again.

First mistake is it's a 1st pattern runes decal on an ET helmet (recognizable from the air vent). Most ETs have 2nd pattern runes. The set-up on this helmet is generally a no-no. Now look at the close-up shot showing the decal but look closely at the paint. See the texture? It dried on with a blotted-paint texture rather than a true gritty alumina texture. Not enough grit was mixed in with the paint. That's the other flaw.








Frighteningly good work
 
SS M40 Chickenwire

SS M40 SD füll basket chicken wire. ET shell with 2nd pattern runes. French repro decal fitted with original liner and strap.














 
Last edited:
Jesus
That guy would earn a black wound badge for putting that on his head. Almost like wearing a crown of thorns!!
 
http://www.germanmilitaria.com/WaffenSS/photos/S010269.html

PHYSICAL DESCRIPTION: The stamped sheet steel construction helmet retains about 98% of its slightly rough textured field-grey paint. The right side of the helmet has a first pattern, "SS" runic decal with black runes on a silver shield shaped base with black bordered edging. The decal is retained about 99%. Original EF decal factory applied. Shows the perfect print to the runes and shield, nice toning and aging/crazing to the decal and pulver. All three liner retaining rivets are intact. The interior of the helmet has a nice clean M31 liner in place. Liner is size marked 55. Leather is still fully intact with all the fingers and the original tie string. Marked "EF62", indicating manufacture by Emaillierwerk, AG Fulda, size 62. Great helmet

PRICE $7,285.00

Lot# 4572 is well past SS decal application for this maker/model. SS decal does not appear to be an EF-SS or Pocher-SS. Possibly a modern Euro-fake ?
 

Attachments

  • 144hel2-21.jpg
    144hel2-21.jpg
    286.2 KB · Views: 48
Last edited:
M17 SS Black ET64

http://www.germanmilitaria.com/WaffenSS/photos/S019976.html

S019976 M17 SS Black ET64 Transitional of SS-Mann "Horst Hartmann".


PHYSICAL DESCRIPTION: Published p.134 The Helmet Decals of the Third Reich by Ken Niewiarowicz. This well known early black M17 SS Transitional was obtained by the distinguished SS helmet collector Darryl Pajot in 2000 or 2001 in North Carolina directly from the nephew of the American soldier who bought it back after the war, where it eventually resided for several years in the renowned SS helmet collection of Doug Buhler. This helmet has been described by Doug Buhler as one of the best black SS helmets known. It is an exceptional SS black transitional and one of three identical known examples, but by far, the top example. Prior to 1935, SS shields were often hand-painted and very sloppy as period photos show. As the commercial liner pads are stamped SS-Hauptquartiere Berlin, (plural - indicating all SS headquarters including Himmler's SS-Hauptampt) it strongly suggests that these were refurbished under a local contract to a Berlin company (not unit done) for all of SS HQ district Berlin so guards would display perfect helmets with perfect SS Runes shields. Supporting this theory, is that the helmet was disassembled, sprayed black inside and out (including the M17 steel band), had commercial (refurbished?) liner pads stamped for SS HQ district Berlin installed, and had painted SS Runes on white and Party Shield professionally applied. As the SS Runes are on white, this strongly indicates that they pre-date the SS Directive I A/O I No. 013 570 12 August 1935 from SS-Hauptamt which clearly directed that SS Runes shields would be silver. Therefore, It is highly possible that the 1935 CA Pocher SS Runes decal on silver is actually based on these painted shields. The wear and patina to the paint, liner, shields, and especially the outside edge and exposed steel, all suggest this helmet is untouched from the 1930s. Threads that hold on the pads are fragile and exhibit a heavy aging, indicating they have never being tampered with. Liner pads appear to be re-used Swedish pattern (Post WWI Swedish supplier?). Unusual, but the heavy leather residue in the liner band under the pads, and the very fragile stitching suggest they are completely original to the helmet since the helmet was reissued in the 1930s. Named on the rear skirt to SS-Mann Horst Hartmann who joined the SS on 26.6.1932. Horst Hartmann was attached to the infamous F.b. Stab RuS (Rasse- und Siedlungshauptamt-SS) (SS Race and Settlement Main Office) on 12.9.37 and then posted to the staff of SS-Hauptampt (The SS central command office - Himmler's HQ in Berlin) 1.9.1938 at Hotel Prinz Albrecht, Prinz Albrecht Strasse 9 Berlin. The helmet comes with several pages of professional research from Westmoreland Research on Horst Hartmann. An opportunity to obtain an ultra rare early black SS transitional with such a distinguished pedigree often comes along only once in a lifetime.

GRADE **** PRICE $25,000.00





Pristine conditioned paint and insignias (brand-new appearing, just some dings on the party shield) while the liner shows considerable darkening from use and heavily worn rim (disparity of wear). It looks like the rim was actually painted around - why would this be period done ? High points of vent lugs and chinstrap studs worn bare amidst pristine conditioned body paint.



The wear and patina to the paint, liner, shields, and especially the outside edge and exposed steel, all suggest this helmet is untouched from the 1930s.



This does not jive with me. The SS was not a respected organization in the early years and had to scrounge for whatever helmets it could get. Many early SS helmets (M17s, M35s etc) have multiple paint layers and multiple decal applications that show repeated reissue. As early SS helmet repainted with insignias but never used (pristine condition - what about storage scuffing ?) raises suspicions IMO.

Supporting this theory... Another theory is this helmet was refurbished more recently. Realize that SS blackies are probably some of the easiest German helmets to fake. A smooth sprayed-on black finish is very straightforward for a restorer. And the handwriting on the rear skirt appears to be a bit bright and new looking. In this case, it appears that there was only a partial exterior repaint leaving the rim, vent lugs and chinstrap studs unpainted. Insignias were painted on top of the new body paint. This may have been done to take advantage of the natural wear patina on these high areas giving the entire thing legitimacy.

We have a nice story with theories, and we have some big-name previous owners.
 

Attachments

  • S019976full.jpg
    S019976full.jpg
    235.1 KB · Views: 21
  • A SS PARTY.jpg
    A SS PARTY.jpg
    201.4 KB · Views: 28
  • A SS RUNES.jpg
    A SS RUNES.jpg
    185.1 KB · Views: 28
  • A SS LINER.jpg
    A SS LINER.jpg
    239.3 KB · Views: 28
  • A SS RS.jpg
    A SS RS.jpg
    156.7 KB · Views: 26
  • A SS LS.jpg
    A SS LS.jpg
    137.7 KB · Views: 22
Last edited:
http://www.germanmilitaria.com/WaffenSS/photos/S019976.html

S019976 M17 SS Black ET64 Transitional of SS-Mann "Horst Hartmann".


PHYSICAL DESCRIPTION: Published p.134 The Helmet Decals of the Third Reich by Ken Niewiarowicz. This well known early black M17 SS Transitional was obtained by the distinguished SS helmet collector Darryl Pajot in 2000 or 2001 in North Carolina directly from the nephew of the American soldier who bought it back after the war, where it eventually resided for several years in the renowned SS helmet collection of Doug Buhler. This helmet has been described by Doug Buhler as one of the best black SS helmets known. It is an exceptional SS black transitional and one of three identical known examples, but by far, the top example. Prior to 1935, SS shields were often hand-painted and very sloppy as period photos show. As the commercial liner pads are stamped SS-Hauptquartiere Berlin, (plural - indicating all SS headquarters including Himmler's SS-Hauptampt) it strongly suggests that these were refurbished under a local contract to a Berlin company (not unit done) for all of SS HQ district Berlin so guards would display perfect helmets with perfect SS Runes shields. Supporting this theory, is that the helmet was disassembled, sprayed black inside and out (including the M17 steel band), had commercial (refurbished?) liner pads stamped for SS HQ district Berlin installed, and had painted SS Runes on white and Party Shield professionally applied. As the SS Runes are on white, this strongly indicates that they pre-date the SS Directive I A/O I No. 013 570 12 August 1935 from SS-Hauptamt which clearly directed that SS Runes shields would be silver. Therefore, It is highly possible that the 1935 CA Pocher SS Runes decal on silver is actually based on these painted shields. The wear and patina to the paint, liner, shields, and especially the outside edge and exposed steel, all suggest this helmet is untouched from the 1930s. Threads that hold on the pads are fragile and exhibit a heavy aging, indicating they have never being tampered with. Liner pads appear to be re-used Swedish pattern (Post WWI Swedish supplier?). Unusual, but the heavy leather residue in the liner band under the pads, and the very fragile stitching suggest they are completely original to the helmet since the helmet was reissued in the 1930s. Named on the rear skirt to SS-Mann Horst Hartmann who joined the SS on 26.6.1932. Horst Hartmann was attached to the infamous F.b. Stab RuS (Rasse- und Siedlungshauptamt-SS) (SS Race and Settlement Main Office) on 12.9.37 and then posted to the staff of SS-Hauptampt (The SS central command office - Himmler's HQ in Berlin) 1.9.1938 at Hotel Prinz Albrecht, Prinz Albrecht Strasse 9 Berlin. The helmet comes with several pages of professional research from Westmoreland Research on Horst Hartmann. An opportunity to obtain an ultra rare early black SS transitional with such a distinguished pedigree often comes along only once in a lifetime.

GRADE **** PRICE $25,000.00





Pristine conditioned paint and insignias (brand-new appearing, just some dings on the party shield) while the liner shows considerable darkening from use and heavily worn rim (disparity of wear). It looks like the rim was actually painted around - why would this be period done ? High points of vent lugs and chinstrap studs worn bare amidst pristine conditioned body paint.


The wear and patina to the paint, liner, shields, and especially the outside edge and exposed steel, all suggest this helmet is untouched from the 1930s.

This does not jive with me. The SS was not a respected organization in the early years and had to scrounge for whatever helmets it could get. Many early SS helmets (M17s, M35s etc) have multiple paint layers and multiple decal applications that show repeated reissue. As early SS helmet repainted with insignias but never used (pristine condition - what about storage scuffing ?) raises suspicions IMO.

Supporting this theory... Another theory is this helmet was refurbished more recently. Realize that SS blackies are probably some of the easiest German helmets to fake. A smooth sprayed-on black finish is very straightforward for a restorer. And the handwriting on the rear skirt appears to be a bit bright and new looking. In this case, it appears that there was only a partial exterior repaint leaving the rim, vent lugs and chinstrap studs unpainted. Insignias were painted on top of the new body paint. This may have been done to take advantage of the natural wear patina on these high areas giving the entire thing legitimacy.

We have a nice story with theories, and we have some big-name previous owners.

Most black SS trannies started life as a green helmet. Most are brush painted and are painted on the outside and on the interior rim up to the liner band. Meaning the liners were not removed just left in place and the helmets were converted to SS either from Army stocks or old surplus WW1 helmets. Most early insignia was hand painted NOT a decal. Only all black early SS lids were the purpose made RZM SS lids I think.. I only know enough on this subject to be dangerous. But, I do observe and track trends. This one just reeks trouble IMHO.
 
Back
Top