Questionable Camos

[mauser99]

"But thankfully, the head (brain) can be trained to go through a checklist of sorts and do an impartial evaluation based on facts, not feelings."

Brian, could you make said checklist? Or atleast list some of the tell tale signs of a fake (red flags) that you look for when evaluating a camo? I know I would use it when scrutinizing a lid.

I find with camo's especially IN HAND is the key and the study of known good examples one can get a feel for paint , color, texture, Ect. No book or web site can do this or has done this so far. I think cameras nowadays are capable of doing this. The work that has been done on GHW with addition of USb microscopes is groundbreaking stuff.

As far as camo 101 I say start slow. The first one I bought was a salty Normandy type very salty and had a good bit of household latex paint spatter on it. I paid well under a grand for it. Then I bought a higher end lid a few years later and sold the first. Then a few more followed. All super cautious purchases.
The term "one looker" gets over used like "mint" but, Once you have studied enough of the real deal when one is put in your lap the one looker term is what is used. Its happened to me. Between a few forums online and some trusted dealer sites there are plenty to choose from on any given day. DO NOT rush into a purchase take your time and ask for opinions if you aren't sure. And if it seems to good to be true it probably is..... This is what keeps Pawel Nowak in business.

 

[Hambone]

Good advice. Note that the helmet must speak for itself, and if it asks more questions than it answers be wary. Understand too that unless you know what is going on with a forum, some of them are manipulated such that a "discussion" is actually an "infomercial" for the helmet. Big money is involved, as are egos, reputations, etc. If you see a forum favoring one point of view and deleting, censoring, and banning alternative views or arguments, you can't trust it. That's how the hobby got 15 years of the "Champagne Rune" and almost stuck with "XRFacts" as the "savior of the hobby".

Trust forums which allow open discussion. Study known originals. Get good mentors who will help.

Here is something interesting. I thought I recognized the style of the helmet being discussed.

 

[NathanLM]

I have noticed a lot of hidden agenda with some people (mostly in helmets, not so much here)..people promoting this helmet, or that one, simply because of who's it is. There are some unscrupulous helmeteers. No offense meant at all, but I roll my eyes when I read "one-looker". Clearly the fakery has become so good that every helmet deserves an honest examination.

 

[David C]

My explanation..

My name is David C.
There are a lot of inquiries & speculation on recent issues at another forum which I have chosen to no longer be a member of after being "Suspended"for 30 days from a moderator there who thought he was either my high school principal or my employer suspending me for not following HIS rules on ### forum. My reply to such was to stick your suspension where the sun don't shine & ban me for good." "Remove my name, my posts, like I never existed in the whole 3 weeks I was there."
"David, I am not banning you, just a 30 day suspension". Needless to say, heated emails were sent back & forth in which I stated my opinions of this man. His last reply was.."Okay, I guess I will leave", my response to him was "You will not be missed". I don't believe anyone ever spoke to this man the way I did. He "spanked me", I "spanked him back harder".
To those here asking with great concern "What has become of #### ?". Ask yourself a question, If you left a forum unannounced, would the Pied Piper be asking "Where did so & so go ?" I doubt it.
I was going to get into more of this, but it would not be right to open up emails & opinions. The above topic to me is history better forgotten.
Next, I owe a great apology to M45. I went on a rant against you due to my passion for this helmet hobbie, & a poor control of my emotions.
The bashing of you started when a new member asked me to help him buy his first camo. I said "Sure, will be fun, I would love to help" We looked at a few , good & bad. Ken B that same day posted the M35 green/tan camo. I told the new guy..."There is a nice one". Then showed him (from the pics) another one I thought was real.
Well I get a mail from him that night.."David, the helmets YOU said look good, why is this guy M45 bashing them today on K98 forum ?" "Think I will just forget the whole camo thing"
Needless to say, I was breathing fire. So after berating M45 & his lot# books due to my anger, I decided to join here, review every camo that was said fake, put together a list of sort, present them in a tasteful way & ask how these determinations are made, most camos need a "hands on" if they are good fakes. Yes, M45 the first 7 pages I got into, your views were correct IMO on every one of them. But they were so fake, it was not even a credit to you to mention them.
I have ended my crusade on the above topic. I admit I did not understand how forums work. I was angry that helmets posted on one forum can turn up for review on another forum within seconds. I thought there was some confidentiality, but I was naïve in my thinking.
So again to M45, I really do apologize for my rant against you. You can either flush it or accept it.

Hambone, lastly want to address you. Your post yesterday calling me "alligator mouth," whatever that was...I had discussed via PM just a few days ago that I DID NOT have the integrity issue with K98, it was with ### forum. That their members were responsible for sending posted camos here for review (condemnation) might be a better term. To me, that is a lack of integrity. If you want to learn about camos, go to a few shows & handle them. I also told you there are some 30-40 pages of camos, that takes a long time to review. Then as I mentioned prior, was going to catalog the ones I wanted to discuss & rather than start ranting again, I was going to present them to you guys to get your reasons on condemning said helmets. Your rant yesterday against me was premature.As I said, I am no longer interested in reviewing camos here. Since I am not a member at ### forum, why bother ? Lastly my observation of late is maybe this is the forum I should have joined instead. Maybe in Canada, they don't have freedom of speech, we do here & it looks like this forum would have suited me better.
So, that's it. I am done with my explanation & apology to M45.David C

 

[Hambone]

My name is David C.
There are a lot of inquiries & speculation on recent issues at another forum which I have chosen to no longer be a member of after being "Suspended"for 30 days from a moderator there who thought he was either my high school principal or my employer suspending me for not following HIS rules on ### forum. My reply to such was to stick your suspension where the sun don't shine & ban me for good." "Remove my name, my posts, like I never existed in the whole 3 weeks I was there."
"David, I am not banning you, just a 30 day suspension". Needless to say, heated emails were sent back & forth in which I stated my opinions of this man. His last reply was.."Okay, I guess I will leave", my response to him was "You will not be missed". I don't believe anyone ever spoke to this man the way I did. He "spanked me", I "spanked him back harder".
To those here asking with great concern "What has become of #### ?". Ask yourself a question, If you left a forum unannounced, would the Pied Piper be asking "Where did so & so go ?" I doubt it.
I was going to get into more of this, but it would not be right to open up emails & opinions. The above topic to me is history better forgotten.
Next, I owe a great apology to M45. I went on a rant against you due to my passion for this helmet hobbie, & a poor control of my emotions.
The bashing of you started when a new member asked me to help him buy his first camo. I said "Sure, will be fun, I would love to help" We looked at a few , good & bad. Ken B that same day posted the M35 green/tan camo. I told the new guy..."There is a nice one". Then showed him (from the pics) another one I thought was real.
Well I get a mail from him that night.."David, the helmets YOU said look good, why is this guy M45 bashing them today on K98 forum ?" "Think I will just forget the whole camo thing"
Needless to say, I was breathing fire. So after berating M45 & his lot# books due to my anger, I decided to join here, review every camo that was said fake, put together a list of sort, present them in a tasteful way & ask how these determinations are made, most camos need a "hands on" if they are good fakes. Yes, M45 the first 7 pages I got into, your views were correct IMO on every one of them. But they were so fake, it was not even a credit to you to mention them.
I have ended my crusade on the above topic. I admit I did not understand how forums work. I was angry that helmets posted on one forum can turn up for review on another forum within seconds. I thought there was some confidentiality, but I was naïve in my thinking.
So again to M45, I really do apologize for my rant against you. You can either flush it or accept it.

Hambone, lastly want to address you. Your post yesterday calling me "alligator mouth," whatever that was...I had discussed via PM just a few days ago that I DID NOT have the integrity issue with K98, it was with ### forum. That their members were responsible for sending posted camos here for review (condemnation) might be a better term. To me, that is a lack of integrity. If you want to learn about camos, go to a few shows & handle them. I also told you there are some 30-40 pages of camos, that takes a long time to review. Then as I mentioned prior, was going to catalog the ones I wanted to discuss & rather than start ranting again, I was going to present them to you guys to get your reasons on condemning said helmets. Your rant yesterday against me was premature.As I said, I am no longer interested in reviewing camos here. Since I am not a member at ### forum, why bother ? Lastly my observation of late is maybe this is the forum I should have joined instead. Maybe in Canada, they don't have freedom of speech, we do here & it looks like this forum would have suited me better.
So, that's it. I am done with my explanation & apology to M45.David C

Well OK David, welcome to the site.

 

[M45]

David C., apology accepted. My I extend a warm welcome to the k98k militaria forum! I appreciate your openness and honesty. I know for a fact that 'refugees' of other forums are welcome here because many of us are refugees as well (I myself a refugee from 3 helmet forums).

Please realize that I speak only for myself as per questionable camos, not officially for the forum. Each member has their own opinions and they sometimes differ from my own.

 

[tjg79]

Well, if the K98k Forum is going to be the only honest forum, then Farb should create a lid sub-forum so these lid refugees have a safe place to go.

 

[NathanLM]

Well, if the K98k Forum is going to be the only honest forum, then Farb should create a lid sub-forum so these lid refugees have a safe place to go.

I would like to see a dedicated sub-forum for German lids as well. I prefer to converse, debate, and do business on this forum above all others when I can.

 

[Hambone]

Well, if the K98k Forum is going to be the only honest forum, then Farb should create a lid sub-forum so these lid refugees have a safe place to go.

The only issue is us getting too far afield of the site purpose, firearms, and spreading ourselves thin.

 

[David C]

Hambone is correct

Creating a refugee "safe house" for helmet collectors is not wise. The mentality & lack of experience in the field from "that" other forum will destroy or at least turn this forum toxic. Whoever is in charge here is doing a great job IMO. I would like to stay, I have a lot of experience & helpful insight on helmets. But creating a refugee camp I advise against it.

 

[Rev.Mike]

This is already a de facto refugee camp.

 

[David C]

This is already a de facto refugee camp.

In your opinion, is that good or bad ? I am confused by your comment. I was told there are some great collectors here,

 

[Rev.Mike]

The comment was half in jest. It is a good thing obviously.

 

[Hambone]

I'd probably say a well armed neighboring country with different values, ideals, and democratic governing methods which provides sanctuary to the opposition to authoritarian regimes.

 

[M45]

White painted camo

http://www.ghw2.com/topic/52083-m42-winter-camo-uffz-fix/

This one has that 'used but not abused look' that some dealers use to describe questionable camos.

Whenever you see a white painted camo for sale, the word 'FAKE' should flash in neon lights above it. One of the rarest of all camos when authentic, very few are found with white paint, whitewash being preferred because it could be scrubbed off after winter. It could also be removed a little at a time to use the factory paint underneath as part of a mottled camo appearance with the melting snow.

Only minor wear throughout, which is unnatural, IMO. No heavy patina wear to the crown at all, so it was never actually used in combat. Pristine condition of the camo texture in the detail photos, fine details typically the first to wear away with actual use.

But sit back and watch the long list of GHW praises for this thing. All of these are 95-99% fake, IMO. Buy them at your own peril.

 

[acer]

Lol!! Why cant i see the pics on this thread?
Cheers

 

[Hambone]

Lol!! Why cant i see the pics on this thread?
Cheers

Probably because you haven't posted five times to have complete site access. Go introduce yourself in the new member / welcome forum. This is done to keep spammers and bots out of here.

 

[M45]

Multi color luft camo

http://www.italianwarfront.com/?page_id=9

This is a great camo helmet in a big size and looks terrific in hand. Model 40 Luftwaffe size 68 shell named to an officer, under the camo paint you can see the tip of the LW eagle wing and when or immediately after this was camouflaged a rubber tube camo band was applied and you can still see all the sign around the helmet shell.

$3,000


I am simply amazed at what is accepted as authentic camos these days. Really, fire-engine RED, lollipop GREEN ? Clearly the "restorer" did not have a clue about RAL colors.

A damaged liner and probably worn eagle made this a good choice to restore. The crown is in fantastic shape.

Some type of material was applied over this paint while still tacky. Probably some technique to give it texture and dampen down the shine.



I have noticed that MANY of the hobby's top dealers known for bang-on rare, authentic TR helmets with proven abilities and talents for spotting the good stuff
have a section of their camo stock that is comprised of "questionable camos", usually exotic freshies, often found with heavily worn components despite close to 100% camo remaining, and usually in the $2000-$4000 price range.

 

[Rev.Mike]

The whole point of camouflage is to render an object more difficult to see. This one is absurd in that an enemy would probably "die laughing" at such a pathetic attempt at concealment. Totally bogus.

 

[Eurofighter]

Questionable Camo

Hi Guys,

I am new to the forum and have a helmet that is questionable. I would like some opinions, but am not sure if one can simply post here or not.
Any help would be appreciated.

EF