Questionable Camos

[Hambone]

That's most likely because those are the ones you were most comfortable to purchase colorwise is it not?

Absolutely true. I don't buy them if I'm not comfortable with them I find that colors and even patterns certainly repeat, giving due consideration to the fact that helmets will vary a bit in pattern, but recognizing that they were done by units. Camo helmet humpers also copy known patterns. Also, I've seen a variety of 50s-70s kid/hippie/biker art "camos" described as "exotic freshies" by collectors suffering from waftardation. Kids played with these things back at that time, found them in the garbage, and made "camos" and Rat Patrol Afrika Korps helmets out of them.

The helmet needs to tell the story and it tells a legitimate story when the facts line up, i.e., consistency in paint, pattern, wear, and age. If you have to make up stories and exceptions to justify anomalies and inconsistencies, well, that's a bad sign.

A discussion like this at WAF, if it was a GOB helmet, would result in ridicule, censorship, locking, and perhaps bannings. I'd rather have truth and some uncivility than BS and WAFvility.

 

[vonrall]

Absolutely true. I don't buy them if I'm not comfortable with them I find that colors and even patterns certainly repeat, giving due consideration to the fact that helmets will vary a bit in pattern, but recognizing that they were done by units. Camo helmet humpers also copy known patterns. Also, I've seen a variety of 50s-70s kid/hippie/biker art "camos" described as "exotic freshies" by collectors suffering from waftardation. Kids played with these things back at that time, found them in the garbage, and made "camos" and Rat Patrol Afrika Korps helmets out of them.

The helmet needs to tell the story and it tells a legitimate story when the facts line up, i.e., consistency in paint, pattern, wear, and age. If you have to make up stories and exceptions to justify anomalies and inconsistencies, well, that's a bad sign.

A discussion like this at WAF, if it was a GOB helmet, would result in ridicule, censorship, locking, and perhaps bannings. I'd rather have truth and some uncivility than BS and WAFvility.

There is certainly plenty of ridicule here (see above) which diminishes your message . If you took a higher road it would give you more credibility. Anyway, I'm back to just reading occasionally, bye.

 

[Hambone]

There is certainly plenty of ridicule here (see above) which diminishes your message . If you took a higher road it would give you more credibility. Anyway, I'm back to just reading occasionally, bye.

IMHO there is truth there and if it happens to also be ridicule then that is a function of what has been done which I have identified. In other words, if they didn't do that then I wouldn't identify it as a problem. The first man to try to point out to WAF that the "Champagne Rune" was an airbrushed humpjob. This was a "Helmet of the Year" at WAF, which is quite metaphorical and ironic:

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=578059

Had he pushed the issue, tried to argue his point, he would have been banned. Who did that silencing help? The hobby? The road I take is a direct route, not meandering and censoring and BSing.

 

[vonrall]

IMHO there is truth there and if it happens to also be ridicule then that is a function of what has been done which I have identified. In other words, if they didn't do that then I wouldn't identify it as a problem. The first man to try to point out to WAF that the "Champagne Rune" was an airbrushed humpjob. This was a "Helmet of the Year" at WAF, which is quite metaphorical and ironic:

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=578059

Had he pushed the issue, tried to argue his point, he would have been banned. Who did that silencing help? The hobby? The road I take is a direct route, not meandering and censoring and BSing.

You can do that without insults and name calling, particularly, referring to people as retarded.

 

[Hambone]

You can do that without insults and name calling, particularly, referring to people as retarded.

It's "waftarded" and there is a difference. "Retarded" is an antiquated term for someone with a mental disability; they cannot help it and are worthy of sympathy. Waftarded is a self-inflicted condition. The waftard is not a sympathetic character but more of an arrogant nitwit who attacks those with different opinions, mindlessly follows crowd directed positions, is more of a trinket whore than a student of the hobby, and appreciates and calls for the censorship and silencing of opposing views.

The waftarded can, e.g., be seen in action on threads at WAF attacking those who didn't accept XRFacts as the "savior of the hobby", attacking those who first questioned the "Champagne Rune" as airbrushed fakes, and those who dared question the legitimacy of various "exotic freshie" "camos". These people are generally a nuisance and destructive to the hobby,its knowledge base, and its new entrants. They are worthy of the term but can be cured, or at least warded off by forum transparency because without a censor protecting them they make fools of themselves and implode. We have none here, or not long anyway. Hope that helps.

 

[vonrall]

It's "waftarded" and there is a difference. "Retarded" is an antiquated term for someone with a mental disability; they cannot help it and are worthy of sympathy. Waftarded is a self-inflicted condition. The waftard is not a sympathetic character but more of an arrogant nitwit who attacks those with different opinions, mindlessly follows crowd directed positions, is more of a trinket whore than a student of the hobby, and appreciates and calls for the censorship and silencing of opposing views.



What a load of BS.

 

[Hambone]

What a load of BS.

Be thankful that this isn't WAF and you are allowed to express an opinion, however asinine, and you aren't ridiculed, censored, suspended, and banned for "showing disrespect to a moderator".

 

[tjg79]

I suppose vonrall suspects it's a load of BS, because he hasn't seen it with his own eyes. That's fair. However, I recommend vonrall go post questions about the Champagne Rune lid over at the WAF lid forum and see what happens.

 

[Rev.Mike]

Yes indeed! That would be instructive....

 

[Hambone]

Vonrall may be a tad waftarded, who knows. He can grumble, insult, and post silly things but at least he is afforded the privilege and courtesy to do so and folks here can draw their own opinions. This discussion is drawing a large number of reads and is being followed by them. Make no mistake, there are good guys at WAF and good mods too. However, I believe that without DougB and GWH2, this would have been buried.

 

[Hambone]

Yes indeed! That would be instructive....

It is my understanding that GHW2 has several very good ongoing threads on it. I would not trust what I saw at WAF to be a complete discussion.

 

[Peiper]

Thread locked at GHW2

Hi guys,

An interesting thread on some questionable camos which was locked by the mods before the helmets was discussed in detail or questions answered. They could be real, but could also be enhanced low grade originals. The whole thread ended up being a discussion on the dealers integrity, not on the helmets.

Here is a link: http://www.ghw2.com/topic/52247-dubious-camos-for-sale-on-dealers-site/page-1

It seems that also GHW2 now protect dealers...

 

[NathanLM]

The mods at GHW2 are heavy handed and clearly protect certain individuals. I'm really becoming jaded with that site.

 

[mauser99]

the sites photos themselves are not good enough to judge a camo. He admits that. Why bother then ????? The original poster never even mentioned the site. It was others familiar with the site that spoke up. Bill Shea's site also sucks for photos and so does the collectors guild.
As I mentioned before a year or so back Shea's site had a few on it that were posted and he was contacted and the lids were removed. Where do all these lids go ?????? Im sure recycled at shows and other venues.

Paul's or Roy's argument is he wrote a book. WHat ??!!?!?!?!?!?!?! So did Kelly Hicks. he wrote three... Featured helmets in his books are fake.

HHHHHMMMMMMMM...... double standard. I saw the book there are lids in it I don't care for either as someone mentioned. The only chapter worth reading or I cared for was the one on the paint used and the containers. The lids for the most part were eh.

I was frustrated to see that thread locked as well. Not sure the reason it was locked ??? Maybe nothing more could have been said ?

 

[NathanLM]

Clearly the mods/admin were perturbed that Paul M was being questioned. Before the thread was locked, several posts were edited for "belligerent" language. Those posts have since been removed entirely I believe. I got the impression that CodyG and Davidsw were just itching to lock the thread to protect their boy. With all that said, I have also only heard good things about Paul as an ethical dealer. The PC police are very active at GHW2; this just reinforces my feeling that k98k is the only collecting forum where free speech is allowed.

 

[Hambone]

I've had several dealings with Paul M and they've all been extremely positive. I like him and will deal with him in the future. Camo helmets are a difficult area and I've seen people just as adamantly in favor of originality as others are opposed. I buy them based upon what MY instincts and gut tells me, not a sales pitch or a "forum committee" of exspurts. On the internets, some people know that they are talking about, some don't know that they don't know, and some are shills.

Thank you Nathan, we try. I don't see this site having any problems with the free speech thing

 

[mauser99]

That's not the point. He felt he was being personally attacked because items on his site were questioned. God forbid. If M45 had posted them here and attached the site Im sure the outlook would have been different. I don't know him nor have ever bought anything from him. I didn't care for that so called Zimmermit camo and maybe one other and surely don't like every camo in the book he wrote. We all make mistakes and I will be the first to admit I have missed things over the years. But, his response was somewhat childish. Nuff said.

 

[Spoof]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/182215403437?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

This disturbs me

As collectors most are FUCKED

 

[Spoof]

Here are more

 

[Spoof]

It is even listed as a fake!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WTF