Questionable Camos

Rex39 is obviously talented at making art fakes. He's as honest as he can be about it and I have no problem with it. You're not wrong in saying that the collecting "original" community is fucked. It's no different than a Paki or Chinese firm knocking off an iPhone or Louis V hand bag. The masses want the real deal but can't afford it. They want to carry their junk in their Louis V handbag in public, and the average collector wants a helmet they can stick on the shelf in the war room/office. Demand makes this hobby for Rex39 possible. Unfortunate when the dealer winds up with it and has no clue. I'm as guilty as anyone in making fake stuff that looks real due to insistence on having the most correct for reenacting. I'll buy a WW2 camo helmet because it's size 68 and $400 or less. Someone will pay the price on this current ebay rig eventually.
 
You're not wrong in saying that the collecting "original" community is fucked. It's no different than a Paki or Chinese firm knocking off an iPhone or Louis V hand bag. The masses want the real deal but can't afford it. They want to carry their junk in their Louis V handbag in public, and the average collector wants a helmet they can stick on the shelf in the war room/office. I'm as guilty as anyone in making fake stuff that looks real due to insistence on having the most correct for reenacting. I'll buy a WW2 camo helmet because it's size 68 and $400 or less. Someone will pay the price on this current ebay rig eventually.

I find it sad that original WW2 helmets which have their own story and history are ruined by these people who apply camo or decals post war. The Asian market copies expensive 'Brand' items with self made imitations, but they dont ruin original items. This is different to what you are saying.
If you say that you make fakes and sell them, well you are doing it for profit and profit only, otherwise it makes no sense. Upgrading copied helmets for re-enactment is fine, but 'upgrading' original items is wrong and an attempt to deceive the 'collecting' community. It makes you one of the many people who are ruining this hobby, for that I despise you and people like you.

EF
 
This helmet just sold for $950 on a dealers website. Apparently this is a one looker and was purchased before these things were faked. You can despise me all you want, but you better face the facts. This stuff has been faked since VE+1. I've never pulled the wool over anyone's eyes. 15 years ago I made really good repro WW2 German field gear for reenactors. I never sold it as original. Don't waste your time being mad at me. There are plenty of other things to be upset about.
 

Attachments

  • 101440a.jpg
    101440a.jpg
    152 KB · Views: 28
Last edited:
Here's another one looker currently for sale….. hell it may be original. I'm not paying the price though.
 

Attachments

  • DSCN3450p.jpg
    DSCN3450p.jpg
    83.3 KB · Views: 40
Same dealer….honestly I love this guy's site and I've spent plenty with him in the past. No thanks on the German camos. Would you risk $1500 for either of these helmets?
 

Attachments

  • DSCN2690p.jpg
    DSCN2690p.jpg
    84.6 KB · Views: 36
This sold for $4500? I guess it may be the real deal. It came from the vets nephew so there's your provenance. I love this guys web store and I've spent lots of money with him, but I'm not paying anything more than the price of the helmet under the cover.
 

Attachments

  • 101441b.jpg
    101441b.jpg
    209.3 KB · Views: 39
Last edited:
This is $650… I'm sure the right guy is out there for this one. All of these helmets have stories with them.
 

Attachments

  • DSCN1689p.jpg
    DSCN1689p.jpg
    81.5 KB · Views: 29
dd m35 police winter camo ?

http://www.ghw2.com/topic/52418-m35-et66-dd-police-helmet-winter-camo/

DD M35 POLICE WINTER CAMO

Hi here is an ET 66, lot number 4767 which is a hit in Franks lot number database for another DD Police helmet. I think the decals are good in fact the helmet is in very good condition. Of course the main thing about it is the winter camo. I could bang on for ages about this that and the other but the pictures can do the talking. Difficult to photograph, hence the slight change in colour of the helmet in the photos.

I think its a very good winter camo with most of the damage to the camo being done after the paint has dried out and become brittle.

Cheers

Dom


-I like what i see :icon14: , polizei camo are so scarce and rare to see, and in winter camo :blink: ...well.... in Normandy or any other :OH-GOD: Congrats!! Iñigo


-Looks like a killer camo. I also like it. Congrats on that rare bird

-Got to say , i can't fault that

-Must be the greatiest wintercamo helmet that I ever saw...!

-Yeah baby ! Looks like a cracking white police helmet . Rob

-Very nice! Not many of these around!

-Looks acrylic, why not white wash,.....just asking?

-A rare beast and I am officially in love ;-)

-Modern acrylic is plasticy and synthetic, would not craze or spider vein like this although there are faux crafts paints available that can replicate somewhat. Pretty sure oil based paint we're seeing. Don't think water based, removable, white wash would craze like this either. Wonderfully rare helmet. Robert




95-99% of white painted camos are fake, IMO [to include medical red cross helmets] (and I'm probably being generous at that). Notice how the distant photos are shaded but not the closeups, a trick also used by certain dealers to tone down the recently applied bright white paint. Observe all of the paint popped off this one with hard breaks. Notice how well distributed the wear is especially on the crown, very unnatural, IMO. I would have expected to see a large area of the crown paint worn away to a dark patina due the helmet being set down repeatedly.

GHW2 loves this one. The cracked paint has apparently convinced them of originality. This forum has had thousands (possibly tens of thousands) of helmets posted, some 500 from Ron R. alone. Are they that stupid to think such an obvious fake could be real ? Notice that they mention FRANK's lot# database and are very careful not to say anything about me or my book. This is apparently anathema to them. An agenda, perhaps?

Yes, perfectly good decaled helmets are being ruined by greed.
 

Attachments

  • post-3988-0-01069400-1469645020.jpg
    post-3988-0-01069400-1469645020.jpg
    174.8 KB · Views: 20
  • post-3988-0-18831500-1469644912.jpg
    post-3988-0-18831500-1469644912.jpg
    184.3 KB · Views: 25
  • post-3988-0-23473500-1469645208.jpg
    post-3988-0-23473500-1469645208.jpg
    182.5 KB · Views: 16
  • post-3988-0-39948400-1469645026.jpg
    post-3988-0-39948400-1469645026.jpg
    163.3 KB · Views: 18
  • post-3988-0-95274200-1469644908.jpg
    post-3988-0-95274200-1469644908.jpg
    175.1 KB · Views: 15
  • post-3988-0-96993300-1469645032.jpg
    post-3988-0-96993300-1469645032.jpg
    180.2 KB · Views: 13
  • post-3988-0-21447200-1469644785.jpg
    post-3988-0-21447200-1469644785.jpg
    181.3 KB · Views: 15
  • post-3988-0-92931400-1469644809.jpg
    post-3988-0-92931400-1469644809.jpg
    184.1 KB · Views: 15
Last edited:
Detail photos of DD field police snow camo. Whatever they used to pop off the paint has damaged the underlying paint in some areas.
 

Attachments

  • post-3988-0-25231200-1469644889.jpg
    post-3988-0-25231200-1469644889.jpg
    158.6 KB · Views: 13
  • post-3988-0-29238700-1469644792.jpg
    post-3988-0-29238700-1469644792.jpg
    198.4 KB · Views: 11
  • post-3988-0-44526500-1469645198.jpg
    post-3988-0-44526500-1469645198.jpg
    272.5 KB · Views: 12
  • post-3988-0-53806900-1469644902.jpg
    post-3988-0-53806900-1469644902.jpg
    263.1 KB · Views: 11
  • post-3988-0-88105800-1469644795.jpg
    post-3988-0-88105800-1469644795.jpg
    171.4 KB · Views: 13
  • post-3988-0-89510800-1469645191.jpg
    post-3988-0-89510800-1469645191.jpg
    189.2 KB · Views: 6
  • post-3988-0-94661700-1469645181.jpg
    post-3988-0-94661700-1469645181.jpg
    168.9 KB · Views: 5
  • post-3988-0-94739800-1469644895.jpg
    post-3988-0-94739800-1469644895.jpg
    179.9 KB · Views: 6
  • post-3988-0-96009300-1469644802.jpg
    post-3988-0-96009300-1469644802.jpg
    203.9 KB · Views: 6
Last edited:
snow camo on postwar shell

A similar camo on a postwar chinese/Indian produced shell.
 

Attachments

  • SC FRONT.JPG
    SC FRONT.JPG
    181.9 KB · Views: 24
  • SC L.JPG
    SC L.JPG
    194.1 KB · Views: 24
  • SC REAR.JPG
    SC REAR.JPG
    223.9 KB · Views: 22
  • SC RF.JPG
    SC RF.JPG
    196.7 KB · Views: 18
  • SC LOT.JPG
    SC LOT.JPG
    190.3 KB · Views: 16
  • SC LINER.JPG
    SC LINER.JPG
    258.7 KB · Views: 13
Last edited:
Same dealer….honestly I love this guy's site and I've spent plenty with him in the past. No thanks on the German camos. Would you risk $1500 for either of these helmets?

I know where both of those are listed. He shouldn't be playing with German camo's as he has no clue as to what he is doing.. He had two or three stinkers on his web site. All were from the same collection..
 
This sold for $4500? I guess it may be the real deal. It came from the vets nephew so there's your provenance. I love this guys web store and I've spent lots of money with him, but I'm not paying anything more than the price of the helmet under the cover.

This one was bought by a camo collector and he's thrilled with it. WHo are we to say ??? Not something Id pay 4500.00 for..
 
It is difficult to photograph....

Hi,
I don't doubt it is an oil based paint that has dried out over time and has become brittle. As Robert has mentioned, acrylic paint does not age in the way this paint has aged. It is brushed on all over the helmet and some further brush strokes can be seen on the rim of the helmet.
As for winter camos being white washed I think most people would accept that a variety of paints were used in general when camouflaging helmets and this applied also to winter camo helmets.
It is difficult to photograph but I find it a very convincing example in hand. At the end of the day judging camos from photographs on the internet can be fruitless but I have tried to provide plenty of photos so that people can make their own minds up. Winter camos can be the hardest to verify. I won't try and change anyone's mind, everyone's entitled to their opinion.
Cheers
Dom


Let's examine the GHW2 'expertise' in regard to winter camos.

As for winter camos being white washed I think most people would accept that a variety of paints were used in general when camouflaging helmets and this applied also to winter camo helmets.

Quite a stretch of the imagination here. Concerning white camos, the majority were whitewash. Since winter snow did not last forever, this method was the preferred way to allow the removal of the white after the snow had melted. Otherwise you have a bright white helmet (a target) on your head the rest of the year. Scrubbing off whitewash was much easier than repainting the entire helmet another color.

Since the war ended in mid spring (May 8, 1945) and not winter, most uncaptured winterized helmets helmets had been scrubbed of whitewash by that time.
So the statement; "a variety of paints were used in general when camouflaging helmets and this applied also to winter camo helmets" does not hold water (B.S.).

It is difficult to photograph.
Of course it is; if what you are looking at is a recently applied bright white paint, then how do you photograph that and make it look 70 years old ?

I find it a very convincing example in hand.
Of course you do, after all it's your helmet. It reminds me of other statements by dealers legitimizing their modern art, like (I judged it authentic from the second I laid eyes on it).

At the end of the day judging camos from photographs on the internet can be fruitless
I see many closeup, clear excellent photos of this and I don't think judging camos by internet photos alone is a fruitless endeavor for all of them.

Winter camos can be the hardest to verify.
Because hardly any have actually survived and nearly all we see are postwar fakes. So with that in mind, yeah they are hard to verify.
 

Attachments

  • post-3988-0-67730700-1469645029.jpg
    post-3988-0-67730700-1469645029.jpg
    175.7 KB · Views: 35
  • post-3988-0-50212300-1469644813.jpg
    post-3988-0-50212300-1469644813.jpg
    159.6 KB · Views: 27
  • post-3988-0-96009300-1469644802.jpg
    post-3988-0-96009300-1469644802.jpg
    203.9 KB · Views: 22
Last edited:
I guess I should go back through Baer's book, but was there a wartime directive stating that if a helmet's camouflaged with paint, the branch decal should be left exposed? I know it occurred, it just seems unusual to leave a big blotch right on the side of a camo'd helmet.
 
I guess I should go back through Baer's book, but was there a wartime directive stating that if a helmet's camouflaged with paint, the branch decal should be left exposed? I know it occurred, it just seems unusual to leave a big blotch right on the side of a camo'd helmet.

This does puzzle me. Why leave a big red spot on your snow camp helmet? Oh well. I won't buy one.
 
Huge difference on outside camo paint compared to the salty inside

This helmet is being heavily discussed at GHW2. I personally believe that it could have been enhanced post war, but the opinion is very different on this one. It is definetively questionable. My main concern is that it is a salty M42 NS helmet full of dust and cobwebs inside. The inside paint is rusty, with a liner in very poor condition. Owner think it could be a "KIA" helmet, but the outside camo is in near mint condition.

http://www.ghw2.com/topic/52429-m42-brutal-woodchip-normandy-camo-from-holland/

What is your opinion on this one?

Regards,
Rune
 
Last edited:
This helmet is being heavily discussed at GHW2. I personally believe that it has been enhanced with a fake camo post war, but the opinion is very different on this one. It is definetively questionable. My main concern is that it is a salty M42 NS helmet full of dust and cobwebs inside. The inside paint is rusty, with a liner in very poor condition. Owner think it could be a "KIA" helmet, but the outside camo is in near mint condition.

http://www.ghw2.com/topic/52429-m42-brutal-woodchip-normandy-camo-from-holland/

What is your opinion on this one?

Regards,
Rune


I wasn't a big fan based off the photos. Harry V. does pull some nice lids out in Holland. He lives near Arnhem.
 
This does puzzle me. Why leave a big red spot on your snow camp helmet? Oh well. I won't buy one.

Found it in Baer's book, and indeed there is a directive from OKH in 43 stating that white washed helmets should leave the branch insignia exposed….
 
This helmet is being heavily discussed at GHW2. I personally believe that it could have been enhanced post war, but the opinion is very different on this one. It is definetively questionable. My main concern is that it is a salty M42 NS helmet full of dust and cobwebs inside. The inside paint is rusty, with a liner in very poor condition. Owner think it could be a "KIA" helmet, but the outside camo is in near mint condition.

http://www.ghw2.com/topic/52429-m42-brutal-woodchip-normandy-camo-from-holland/

What is your opinion on this one?

Regards,
Rune


You are starting to ask questions Peiper, and that can be dangerous to your credibility. If anything, it shows that the 'snake-fascinated' camo hobby can be educated given enough persistence. I agree with much of what you said.

Assessment: near 100% of camo remaining despite a heavily worn interior; disparity of wear (a good choice for restoration). Pristine condition of the woodchips despite heavy rim/vent wear. The condition of the crown paint is near 100% despite having been a "KIA" helmet. One of the many heavily worn "beat" helmets found that has been restored to movie-prop status. And since that's what you are getting, that's what you should pay for (re: $300 instead of the 2-4K that is being asked for the average questionable camo).

You have to ask why would a highly experienced helmet forum fall in love with this obvious movie prop? When you realize that helmet forums have long been used by straw men to promote the fake wares of their dealer friends, then it makes sense. We have discussed before that camo collectors are being 'conditioned' or taught to know what 'original camos' look like. This is part of the teaching process, and the last thing that teachers want is to have their classes interrupted by 'hooligans'.
 

Attachments

  • post-22054-0-26848100-1469731915.jpg
    post-22054-0-26848100-1469731915.jpg
    180.3 KB · Views: 43
  • post-22054-0-44830700-1469731912.jpg
    post-22054-0-44830700-1469731912.jpg
    174.9 KB · Views: 29
  • post-22054-0-70963600-1469731918.jpg
    post-22054-0-70963600-1469731918.jpg
    195.9 KB · Views: 30
  • post-22054-0-77330900-1469731920.jpg
    post-22054-0-77330900-1469731920.jpg
    214 KB · Views: 29
  • post-22054-0-89551500-1469731922.jpg
    post-22054-0-89551500-1469731922.jpg
    179.4 KB · Views: 29
  • post-22054-0-44139000-1469731990.jpg
    post-22054-0-44139000-1469731990.jpg
    244.6 KB · Views: 33
  • post-22054-0-05341700-1469731927.jpg
    post-22054-0-05341700-1469731927.jpg
    253.8 KB · Views: 24
  • post-22054-0-14651700-1469731939.jpg
    post-22054-0-14651700-1469731939.jpg
    256.3 KB · Views: 22
  • post-22054-0-67975500-1469731954.jpg
    post-22054-0-67975500-1469731954.jpg
    245.5 KB · Views: 20
  • post-22054-0-80076400-1469731942.jpg
    post-22054-0-80076400-1469731942.jpg
    212.9 KB · Views: 22
Last edited:
Found it in Baer's book, and indeed there is a directive from OKH in 43 stating that white washed helmets should leave the branch insignia exposed….

Bizarre. But if it's true, it's true. I can't argue if it's documented.


You are 100 % rightyou friend. Most people say something but can't back up what they are saying.

Like I said i can believe from photos that their are some non believers but please state some facts and explanations like [name] and some others do.

"Prove the camo is fake. Back yourself up." That's always solid reasoning. Prove the helmet is fake. If you can't, then it's okay.
 
Back
Top