Questionable Camos
- Thread starter M45
- Start date
M45
Well-known member
Luft field division sawdust camo
RE-POST
The same helmet in post #249 but with the price raised $250 ($3250). One would think that if something did not sell, the price would be lowered, but this is not the first time I have seen the price raised on dealer's sites.
"Used but not abused", just the way we like to see them. Is it possible that camo collectors are actually learning?
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http://www.italianwarfront.com/?page_id=9
German WWII Luftwaffe M-40 combat camo helmet, large size 66/58 shell ET.
Liner and pins are unmolested complete with original chinstrap. A great LW Feld Divisionen combat helmet.
$3,000
Factory helmets with heavy wear, corrosion/oxidation are excellent candidates for upgrades (low-value helmets), and collectors should be aware of this when considering camos. Note that the camo is in much better condition overall than the interior finish, which is very heavily oxidized.
Two extreme rub spots to bare metal (top and front) while the rest has well-distributed minor wear (dings) - unnatural wear patterns, IMO.
Far too much fresh exterior rust, indicating a more recent exposure to the elements.
Look out for repetitive wear marks (scratches or dings) that have fresh oxidation, and areas of extreme wear (large rub marks to bear metal) in the midst of much better conditioned paint - disparity of wear.
The heavy rub spot to bare metal on the crown should have extended over most of the top of the crown, not in just one small area. Field used camos do not usually wear that way.
RE-POST
The same helmet in post #249 but with the price raised $250 ($3250). One would think that if something did not sell, the price would be lowered, but this is not the first time I have seen the price raised on dealer's sites.
"Used but not abused", just the way we like to see them. Is it possible that camo collectors are actually learning?
------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.italianwarfront.com/?page_id=9
German WWII Luftwaffe M-40 combat camo helmet, large size 66/58 shell ET.
Liner and pins are unmolested complete with original chinstrap. A great LW Feld Divisionen combat helmet.
$3,000
Factory helmets with heavy wear, corrosion/oxidation are excellent candidates for upgrades (low-value helmets), and collectors should be aware of this when considering camos. Note that the camo is in much better condition overall than the interior finish, which is very heavily oxidized.
Two extreme rub spots to bare metal (top and front) while the rest has well-distributed minor wear (dings) - unnatural wear patterns, IMO.
Far too much fresh exterior rust, indicating a more recent exposure to the elements.
Look out for repetitive wear marks (scratches or dings) that have fresh oxidation, and areas of extreme wear (large rub marks to bear metal) in the midst of much better conditioned paint - disparity of wear.
The heavy rub spot to bare metal on the crown should have extended over most of the top of the crown, not in just one small area. Field used camos do not usually wear that way.
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Though low value I think this was probably a nice helmet before someone messed with it . camouflaged helmets are more of a headache than ss ones in my opinion .New aged paint and over weathered effects usually stand out a mile because the fakers try too hard .But having to take into account what paint the soldiers had to hand when painting their helmets during wartime,how they applied it,where they served,how much use and abuse the helmet had,and then having to account for possible post war use,or has it laid somewhere for years,has it been a kids play thing,has it been in a collection,stored well,stored bad all add to a never ending collectors misery especially when you throw unscrupulous fakers out to make money into the mix.
M45
Well-known member
Green & tan camo
http://www.ghw2.com/topic/51981-m35-q66-green-tan-camo/
Extreme lack of wear on this one with near 100% of camo remaining. Heck, even the authentic interior is missing more paint!
Some dealers promote camos that have that 'used but not abused' look, but that mentality will only get you camos like this one, one that was camoed but never used in combat. It looks more like it rattled around in someone's war chest for a few decades.
GHW-2 responses:
-Beauty Ken.. But already told you that !!
-Indeed a beauty with an awesome patina, lovely crazing over the decal, and very nice colors
-Ken, awesome awesome helmet! Congratulations.
-Get yourself some of dat....WOW!!!!
-That's an awesome piece Ken. Are you keeping it or will it be for sale soon?
-wonderful helmet. Being a Q its pretty much going to be a Heer no matter what. But, go ahead and zap it anyway ! Xrf machines get finicky if not used often enough...lol
I can see why this one would be bedded down with you for some time Ken.
http://www.ghw2.com/topic/51981-m35-q66-green-tan-camo/
Extreme lack of wear on this one with near 100% of camo remaining. Heck, even the authentic interior is missing more paint!
Some dealers promote camos that have that 'used but not abused' look, but that mentality will only get you camos like this one, one that was camoed but never used in combat. It looks more like it rattled around in someone's war chest for a few decades.
GHW-2 responses:
-Beauty Ken.. But already told you that !!
-Indeed a beauty with an awesome patina, lovely crazing over the decal, and very nice colors
-Ken, awesome awesome helmet! Congratulations.
-Get yourself some of dat....WOW!!!!
-That's an awesome piece Ken. Are you keeping it or will it be for sale soon?
-wonderful helmet. Being a Q its pretty much going to be a Heer no matter what. But, go ahead and zap it anyway ! Xrf machines get finicky if not used often enough...lol
I can see why this one would be bedded down with you for some time Ken.
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M45
Well-known member
On GHW-2.
Absolutely horrid. Does not even fit a WWII German military theme. Looks like it was done by playground children using their paint sets.
The damaged liner made it a good choice for 'restoration'.
Absolutely horrid. Does not even fit a WWII German military theme. Looks like it was done by playground children using their paint sets.
The damaged liner made it a good choice for 'restoration'.
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mauser99
Senior Member
I see you aren't a fan. As we have been down this road before. If you base all your judgments on camo's on wear alone you will miss out on some pretty nice helmets. Natural wear and patterns are things that occur similar in any way shape or form. I see some tale tails signs I look for on camo's that point to this one being Ok in my book. Our books might not be 100% the same and Im ok with that. The work you are doing here is well respected by all who read these posts.
M45
Well-known member
I'm glad I'm not a camo collector. They can crank these things out all day that look just like that. REX-39's work should be enough to convince us that we are in way over our heads. Some fakes are now too good for most of us to detect.
May I suggest:
1. do not collect camos
or
2. wait until science has advanced to the point of producing an affordable, hand-held paint zapper to indicate elements in paint to depth with dates of compounds first produced.
When that happens, there will be a second A-bomb detonation in the hobby as most camos in prized collections will be outed as fakes.
mauser99
Senior Member
I am not a camo collector either. Im a helmet collector 1st who has ended up with a few camo's along the way. I wanted one 100% no questions asked camo and ended up with a few extra along the way. Im very cautious when buying and assessing for others. Most 90-95% we agree on and the other 5% I caulk up to personal taste and comfort level. I would say to every guy getting into lids to stay away from camo's and focus on 100% pristine decaled factory helmets. These are the safest and best buys out there. Stick to studying M45's lot list and you will keep your self out of harms way for the most part. There is still a lot of fun and satisfaction in this hobby for those who want to learn.
I don't know what to make of the first GHW lid posted, it's not a "one looker" to me and the one thing that I don't like too much is the naming - is that painted over rust? Anyway, that said it does have a lot going for it and I can see why they like it.
One thing I might add as well, (not just specific to this one) is that sometimes I feel it's a lot of the time down to poster reputation as to what the response it gains... had that been a 'newbie' who had just picked that up on eBay - would those overwhelmingly positive comments have been posted?!?? I don't think so.
One thing I might add as well, (not just specific to this one) is that sometimes I feel it's a lot of the time down to poster reputation as to what the response it gains... had that been a 'newbie' who had just picked that up on eBay - would those overwhelmingly positive comments have been posted?!?? I don't think so.
I would also say that the advice to steer away from camo lids is not the best, but I also admit, not unfounded. Yes there are plenty of fakes around, and a few better than others - the Rex ones being possibly the pinnacle - but I am yet to see one of those even that would pass as a 100% original.
There are also plenty of "one look" camo helmets out there and ways to get guaranteed originals if you want them.
There are also plenty of "one look" camo helmets out there and ways to get guaranteed originals if you want them.
I saw that painted over the rust thing too. I couldn't figure it out.
mauser99
Senior Member
I tend to agree with you at times it does seem this way. Some forums are slow to warm up to newbies and its not un-common for first time posters to get less than a warm reception. Respect needs to be earned at all levels in real life and this stuff is no different. GHW has a helmet authentication section there now and in it there is a pinned thread showing a camo and how is was met with cheers only to have the truth revealed later in the thread by the last owner who had had the helmet made for reenacting. If GHW was in the business of hiding the truth why on earth would that thread be purposely pinned.
There are more pinned threads on that site on decal identification and outing fakes than on any other site besides this one of course.
There are separate sub-sections on decals, chin straps, liners, ect ,ect, ect. I suggest to anyone who is willing spend a few nights reading them. You will come away far more brighter than when you started.
As for M45's comments its seems a deep plot that helmet dealers are posting helmets that they just bought for their own personal collections that are fake to be able to fill the minds of their customers heads of what a real top shelf camo looks like so they can further push these types on un-suspecting customers in the future ???? Seems plausible. Not like things like that haven't happened in the past. Shame on them and god help us if this is true..
Likewise, I agree with all of that too! The GHW forum is (IMO) by far and away the best forum for helmets, heck maybe even the best collecting forum in general especially when you consider the amount of info (pinned threads etc etc) and (specific) knowledge it and their members hold! In no way was I criticising the forum, but like we both said - sometimes I think things can go a little off-track depending on who posted the item. This being true for most if not all forums, well at least the ones I am a member of anyway.
Spot on and the most glaring problem with helmet forums, and any heavily censored forums. Some of these people actually have "faux reputations" fabricated by an environment where those who disagree are silenced and their posts removed. You are then left with FFEs (Faux Forum Experts) whom new guys really believe are "experts" because the FFEs go unchallenged (because all who disagree are censored, silenced or banned). The new guys and general mob see that to be part of the big show and to have their camos publicly blessed they must "agree" with the FFE and the FOFFE (Friends Of FFE) mainly through mindless prescribed forum dolphin show clicks and whistles of approval (e.g., "Wow" , "One looker!", and/or thumbs up emoticons). They aren't really thinking, they are doing as they are conditioned to get a chair at the grown up table. That is the "FFE / lemming snowball effect". You can see the result at WAF right now.
Such group think mentality builds momentum and the FFE's (who may also be a moderator) "authority" over time as the forum is conditioned (like lab rats in a maze rewarded for hitting the cheese button) to agree with certain people and ridicule those who don't agree. True knowledgeable guys who do have original opinions, intellect, and think independently are then either are banned, leave in disgust, or bump along in silence. It's why the Nazis and Communists first imprisoned and executed the intelligentsia of conquered areas. Making matters worse IMHO on some of these forums is the infusion of fraudulent dealings and schemes (e.g., the shampain rune, XRFacts, and certain "exotic freshie" camo scams).
In short, the more censorship and thread locking on a forum, the more FFEs, FOFFEs, misinformation, fraud and general megalomaniacal buffoonery masquerading as legitimate information. But protecting flawed information, misinformation, and BS from open discussions and challenge is the whole purpose of censorship really.
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