Questionable Camos

[Peiper]

The availability of fantastic and unique camo helmets out of the "woodwork" in the US is suspicious. The German armed forces did camoflage their helmets in various patterns and colors, but the sheer scale of helmets available in the collecting community now does seem far fetched.

Camo helmet collecting does seem to folllow som sort of fashion, and the most sought after types has become available from dealers in quantities which make you wonder.

In the wake of the Shampain Ruin scandal, I smell a rat quite strongly also in the camo helmet collection field.

 

[M45]

WW2 German Camouflage Helmet Estate

http://www.ebay.com/itm/WW2-German-...548372?hash=item210c0497d4:g:N3wAAOSws4JW7y9b



This one conforms to my ideas of what many authentic camos look like. Two colors, nothing fancy, paint just slapped on, no fancy designs and 'geometriks' or lovely hearts, paint right over the top of the Heer factory green-gray which is quite visible, heavy wear evident all over, crown camo almost worn completely off. A very dead, flat appearance reflecting decades of oxidation.

No suspicious repetitive pock marks and hack marks, no red rust, no faux patina, no bright vibrant colors, no modern hardware store furniture paint shades.

No 'top-shelf' exotic freshie here, but authentic nonetheless IMO.

 

[M45]

NEW! Item 733 M40 tropical Luftwaffe camouflage helmet

NEW! Item 733 M40 tropical Luftwaffe camouflage helmet

http://www.germanhelmetsinc.com/helmetssale.htm

This is an intriguing tropical camo helmet. It is a re-issue M40 Luftwaffe with textured paint inside and out (as are most helmets which were stripped and repainted at facilities) It was adorned with a re-issue Luftwaffe decal and sometime thereafter it was painted over in ordinance tan vehicle paint for camouflage used in a tropical region; be it Africa, Sicily, Italy or where ever. The neat thing about this helmet is that the decal used is a rarely seen subdued green variant. The camo paint remains 90% intact. The decal shows through in damaged areas. The liner shows good use but is intact and sound. There appears to be the remnants of a name tag or something on the rear rim. The maker of the helmet is unclear due to the textured paint but it is a size 64. A great tropical camo $3500.00


Offhand this one looks great (appearances can be deceiving), but I do see differences with the helmet above. I see red rust on this one (indicative or recent oxidation or recent weathering in the elements). The amount of camo left on this shell is amazing for a helmet that supposedly saw combat, nearly 100%. The eagle close-up shot shows nearly complete camo coverage except for the airvent. Also notice that the rim is missing nearly all of the paint, some hard breaks are evident (paint chipped off, not worn off). One feature common to many questionable camos is the often completely bare rims showing hard breaks to the paint along with the high points of the airvents rubbed bare, yet the large amount of remaining camo overall is disproportionate to this heavy rim/vent wear.

This subdued green bird really does not belong on this M40 shell. If the theory is correct that these colored LUFT2 birds were prototypes produced in 1937 and applied to early reissued helmets in 1937 until the white LUFT2 bird was ultimately chosen as the official Luftwaffe helmet insignia, there would have been no reason for much later reissued helmets to be sporting this decal since it had been officially rejected years prior. If the green bird was postwar applied (as many were to later helmets - unapplied colored bird decals are available) then the camo does not stand a chance.

Overall too many red flags for this one to be seriously considered authentic, IMO.

 

[Peiper]

Green Luftwaffe2 decals used on reissued helmets

Hi Brian,

Although I can agree that the tropical Luftaffe helmet you just posted with a Green Luftwaffe2 decal may have issues, there has recently surfaced an NS66 M42 Luftwaffe helmet in Norway with this decal. The helmet is clearly reissued, and the mudcracks from the paint above the old decal goes into the green decal.

This proves that this decal actually was used on some reissue helmets:
http://www.ghw2.com/topic/51146-m42-ns66-lw-sd-with-green-decal-new-find/

 

[M45]

I suppose there will always be controversy over these. If such decals had been applied by vets shortly after the war's end, then such unions would be nearly 70 years old by now, plenty of time for the components to settle in together much like period installed components have.

I have seen these decals on late war Q M40 ND Luft blue gray helmets with high lot numbers and also later war M38s in ND territory, clearly post war applications, IMO.

If you think about it, why would old prototype decals that had been rejected (as evidenced by the official white LUFT2 decal in prolific use) be pulled out of drawers and slapped on later war reissues? The colored birds were not official Luftwaffe insignia. It would seem that even the contractors and depots had to follow standards as per reissue specifications. But postwar vets and others with these colored birds had no qualms about applying them wherever.

My understanding is that these colored birds were applied to reissued helmets in 1937 (verified by early reissues with these decals) during a trial period to determine whether a subdued bird or the standard white should be used. Their appearance on much later helmets makes no sense.

EDIT: Also notice that this reissue is un-issued, similar to the many sham-pain SS helmets found in un-issued condition.

 

[M45]

Rex39 m42 normandy

http://www.ebay.com/itm/WW2-GERMAN-...632742?hash=item2a63c74f26:g:UTQAAOSwwpdW8Hk3

This is a WWII German M42 helmet shell. The size is 68 cm. There is no liner or decal. The helmet is painted with thickly applied rough textured tan and sprayed with brown and green accents over field gray. The interior is field gray. Exterior surface of the shell shows wear with numerous scratches and paint chips. Some very light rusting is present on the interior. The shell is otherwise in excellent condition with no cracks, dents, or unwanted holes. Rear interior is stamped "hkp 68". Lot number is difficult to read (looks like 4592). Scroll down to the pictures, then return to the item description.

This is an authentic WW2 manufactured German M42 helmet shell but the painting and aging are newly done. The techniques used have taken years to perfect and the results are incredible. This helmet looks dead-on real whether viewed from across the room or in your hand. I guarantee this helmet to be one of the finest repaints available anywhere. Here's your opportunity to own what appears to be a rugged veteran the Normandy campaign at a reasonable price. Also included are a set of split pins that have been painted to match (includes washers).

To prevent resale as original, the interior is marked as a repaint. Marking will be hidden with a liner in place.

 

[M45]

ww2 German M-35 helmet. Size 64. 3-color camo. WWI STYLE CAMO

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ww2-German-...939392?hash=item2a63db3f40:g:G2cAAOSwAvJW8gar

WWI STYLE CAMO

ww2 German M-35 helmet. Size 64. 3-color camo. With liner.

ww2 German M-35 helmet. Stahlhelm. Size 64. 3-color camo helmet with black stripes. Helmet complete with liner. Helmet have have 90% of camo paint. Inside is good liner size 57. Leather on a liner show wear and age, seen size stamp.


Latvian Connection Special.

 

[nirvana]

What's with those vent rivets on the WWI style "M-35?"

 

[M45]

I believe that some of the very earliest NS M35 helmets used fat vents like that.

 

[ebeeby]

Chickens, thumbs, stories,.....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/231883305452?rmvSB=true

 

[M45]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/231883305452?rmvSB=true

Current bid:
US $1,125.01

Awesome combat worn helmet
- used to be a plain jane m42 helmet which had chicken wire applied and was THEN painted
- chicken wire is single direction twist that is zinc plated and is in a fairly typical pattern
- you can tell it was painted after the wire was applied by seeing some specs of paint on the wire. It looks like the paint was applied by the soldier with his THUMB! A few spots you can see his fingerprints
- liner is dry with one finger that ripped off
- the owners name is long removed, but it looks like the rank before the name is strm. Or "Sturmmann" which we all know to be a waffen elite rank
- ok, ok, heres the part you're all waiting for. I bought this at a farm auction years and years ago near South Jordan, Utah. When i bought it, it was covered in sixty years worth of Utah red dirt. I did my best to gently clean it but you can still see some in the nooks and crannies, especially in the liner band



Someone is apparently convinced of authenticity (71 bids) with 25 bids by one person alone (shill bidding?). The insane quest for WWII German camo helmets is truly amazing. First there was the camo paint, then the wire, and then a bit of paint on top of the wire (a nice touch). It tells me that everything was crafted at the same time, and what a bunch of time some trooper had. The red material on the liner band is not Utah dust, but leather treatment of the fake liner. I believe that the ET M42 helmet shell is original, but nothing else.

EDIT: Ebay Helmet appears to have been removed. I don't think it sold.

 

[M45]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/WW2-GERMAN-...IG-/162017695656?hash=item25b901d7a8:g:aEsAAO

Price:
US $599.99 BUY IT NOW

DEAR EBAY TEAM. THIS ITEM DOESN'T HAVE AND NEVER HAD ANY OFFENSIVE SYMBOLS. WW2 GERMAN ORIGINAL HELMET, M-40,COMPLETE W/LINER&CHINSTRAP. RARE MULTI CAMO, SIZE 64/56. YOU CAN SEE THAT THERE WERE SAND MIXED WITH THE CAMO PAINT (BY THE SOLDIER?)WHICH MAKES THIS HELMET UNIQUE. THE CHINSTRAP IS MARKED. THERE ARE NUMBERS ON THE RIM.IT SHOWS AGE AND USE BUT STILL THE CONDITION IS VERY GOOD.




Uncle Jim: "You know ma, them thar kammy-flaged German helmets are sell'in like hotcakes, and fer high doller too! Just look at them prices, two to three thousand per copy!"

Ma: "Jim, what about that ole helmet that I've been use'in fer a hog slopper, pig-sty scooper, and flar pot for that last 70 years? It still around here somewhere. In fact, I think the grand-kids might've buried it."

Uncle Jim: "That's it! I'll find that old helmet, brush off the rust and dirt, and slop on some nice kammy-flaged paint! My friend Roy has a liner and strap! Then I'll set it outside and let it age. Roy knows the admin of one of them German helmet forums. He'll get them helmet boys to line up behind this one say'in how authentic it is 'n stuff like that! They'll say things like 'top-shelf' and 'exotic freshie' in discrib'in it! Then the admin will point to all them good words and will sell the helmet to one of them high-falloot'in city boys based on the 'collective forum expertise' !"

 

[heavy_mech]

Uncle Jim: "You know ma, them thar kammy-flaged German helmets are sell'in like hotcakes, and fer high doller too! Just look at them prices, two to three thousand per copy!"

Ma: "Jim, what about that ole helmet that I've been use'in fer a hog slopper, pig-sty scooper, and flar pot for that last 70 years? It still around here somewhere. In fact, I think the grand-kids might've buried it."

Uncle Jim: "That's it! I'll find that old helmet, brush off the rust and dirt, and slop on some nice kammy-flaged paint! My friend Roy has a liner and strap! Then I'll set it outside and let it age. Roy knows the admin of one of them German helmet forums. He'll get them helmet boys to line up behind this one say'in how authentic it is 'n stuff like that! They'll say things like 'top-shelf' and 'exotic freshie' in discrib'in it! Then the admin will point to all them good words and will sell the helmet to one of them high-falloot'in city boys based on the 'collective forum expertise' !"

I get a strange feeling this has already happened... maybe many times? Is it possible these are the MOST faked items in history?

 

[iron bender]

Is it possible these are the MOST faked items in history?

Money takes the cake in that department. Personally, I probably made 30-40 fake camos and SD Heer helmets 20 to 25 years ago out of original shells I got from Czech Rep. Every last one of them was sold to reenactors for that purpose and nothing else. It was a way to make $30 to $50 bucks per helmet when I was still in school. I'd sell them with original or repro liners depending on what I could get. Who knows where any of them are now, but I'm sure some have been misrepresented since that time. Mine would be easy to tell because I had to plug weld the 2 holes on the forward crown where the FD badges were. Easily seen on the interior.

 

[heavy_mech]

... Easily seen on the interior.

Unless covered by thumb applied poopy paint?

 

[M45]

Item 680 M42 Camouflage helmet w/sand mixture

Item 680 M42 Camouflage helmet w/sand mixture

http://www.germanhelmetsinc.com/helmetssale.htm

Here is a great combat helmet. The camouflage has a lot of texture and has that "Used but not abused" look to it. I'd love to hear this one talk if it could. The helmet is a late war Ckl64 probably made in mid 1944 judging by the lot number. The camouflage paint remains 90% intact. The chinstrap appears to be original to the helmet. The liner shows damage to a couple of the fingers. But she is a real looker. SOLD



Very odd choice of colors on this one, apparently a red-brown with a strange light green (RAL + a personal touch). Much of this finish shows a pristine, untouched condition of the texture while other areas and the liner show heavy wear. This heavily worn late war CKL M42 slate gray helmet with damaged liner made it a good choice for restoration. A very high percentage of camo remaining while the liner shows heavy wear.

These freshly found out of the wood-work "kamos" are flooding the market and are the "new normal" in camo collecting.

 

[M45]

Bch59 unique luftwaffe m35 hand painted camouflage helmet

BCH59 UNIQUE LUFTWAFFE M35 HAND PAINTED CAMOUFLAGE HELMET

$2850

http://www.virtualgrenadier.com/sale_item.php?iid=4320

Heavily worn Luft bird (a good choice for restoration), a 3-color camo using "mock" RAL colors (shades off). Plenty of paint popped off, other areas pristine, airvents worn bare.
Wear patterns unnatural, RAL colors incorrect.

 

[M45]

Ww2 german m40 italian theater camo helmet shell - size 68

WW2 GERMAN M40 ITALIAN THEATER CAMO HELMET SHELL - SIZE 68

EBAY: 182111151623

REX-39

US $385.00

This is a WW2 German M40 helmet shell. Size is 68 cm. There is no liner and no decal. Shell is marked ET 68. Lot # is visible but very faint. The helmet is painted field gray and overpainted textured tan with green spray accents. Interior is field gray. The paint has chips, scratches, and rust bleed-thru but the helmet is otherwise in excellent condition with no cracks, dents, pits or unwanted holes. There are also rust and scratch marks that indicate a chicken wire basket was once placed over the helmet. Look at the pictures below then return to the item description.

Although this is an original WW2 German M40 helmet shell, the painting and aging are newly done. The techniques used make this helmet appear absolutely dead-on real whether viewed from across the room or in your hand. I guarantee this to be one of the finest repaints available anywhere. To prevent dishonest resale, the interior is marked as a repaint. The marking will be hidden with a liner in place. Included is a set of split pins that have been painted and aged to match the helmet. (I will also provide the washers)

Your satisfaction is guaranteed. If you're not happy for any reason, return the helmet in undamaged condition and I will refund your purchase. Here's your opportunity to own what appears to be a real WW2 German Mediterranean Theater camo helmet shell at a reasonable price.

 

[M45]

http://www.germanmilitaria.com/Heer/photos/H075274.html

The stamped, sheet steel construction helmet retains about 85% of its field-applied, camouflage over-paint in random splotches of brown and tan. All three liner retaining rivets are all intact. The interior of the helmet has a M31, tan, leather liner with all eight of its original fingers and the original tie string intact. Liner is size marked 57. The reverse, interior, neck guard apron has a faint, stamped serial number "5741", and the manufacturer’s code and size, "NS64", indicating manufacture by Vereinigte Deutsche Nickelwerke, AG. Schwerte, size 64. Complete with its original chinstrap. Doug Buhler collection.

GRADE **** PRICE $2,250.00

Incorrect RAL colors on this 'late 3-color camo'. Striking, vibrant colors. A few areas having paint chipped off with red rust (recent oxidation).
Lot# indicates a later NS M42. Late war helmets are less likely to have had elaborate field mods IMO, but postwar 'restorations' are very likely to be found on late helmets due to their commonality.
Doug owned this one? I though Doug was an 'expert' ?

 

[Peiper]

Hi Brian,

The last helmet you posted here on this thread is a difficult call. The wear on it seems very convincing to me, and difficult to produce by a faker. If this camo paint is fake, its a darn good one IMO. I agree that the colors are unusual, but we know the germans used available paint also in addition to the standard issue paints in the Wehrmacht.

I just studied the wear on this helmet, and find it difficult to conclude that it is contrieved.