Questionable Camos

[mauser99]

I think these 3 pictures show that the decals have not been removed.

EF

I guess it depends on what you are comfortable with. From the 1st post I wasn't to thrilled with it. That was just my own personal preference.

Not a helmet that really appeals to me personally. Not calling it fake just not one for me. I like certain things and we all have different tastes.

There will always be a grey area when it comes to camo's and camo collectors I think for the most part are OK with that. I own a few and never really set out to own any. I buy what I like and what finds me and what Im comfortable with.

 

[M45]

Ghw2 ghosted net camo. Although well liked on the forum, I see it as an obvious Euro-fake. Those ghosted net/wires are becoming popular, aren't they ? I guess we can expect to see more of them.

The rusted/pitted interior indicates a dug relic that has been restored or a postwar stripped shell that was camoed and left to cook outside. As such, no factory paint visible as well as no solid vet provenance.

Euro fakes were discussed in "Questionable Camos - 101" class. What did I say about there being so many novice camo collectors ?


There will always be a grey area when it comes to camo's and camo collectors I think for the most part are OK with that.


Those 'gray areas' are why Euro-trash like this is accepted as authentic.

EDIT: It appears to be a rusted relic shell with net applied then painted. Rust pitting seen under netting.

 

[nirvana]

Jesus, another ghost net? That's like five this month.

 

[mcorioles]

Yeah because the topic is post your net and chickenwires.

Who cares how many have been posted this month?

What relevance does that have?

 

[nirvana]

I've seen as many ghost nets in the past month as I've seen in the five years before that. A bunch of goofy concrete camo helmets camo out at once a little while back. I vaguely recall a bunch of SS decaled helmets coming out a while before that....what were those again? That's my issue, a wave of stuff. But hell, if the owner of each is happy, more power to them. It's not my money and not my helmet.

 

[mcorioles]

Because when you start a thread on netted helmets.....you get pics of netted helmets........

 

[ZF41 K98k]

I've seen as many ghost nets in the past month as I've seen in the five years before that. A bunch of goofy concrete camo helmets camo out at once a little while back. I vaguely recall a bunch of SS decaled helmets coming out a while before that....what were those again? That's my issue, a wave of stuff. But hell, if the owner of each is happy, more power to them. It's not my money and not my helmet.

Oh come on! You surely don't think that when a new "show your XXX helmets" thread comes along, all the ones posted up are recent finds do you?!?

 

[nirvana]

I don't keep track of the threads on other forums, just glancing at the one here on occasion. Not all have been posted in the past week, I thought some were new finds from dealers or verification threads.

 

[M45]

A Ghw2 favorite. What is sad is that this was posted as authentic, someone's favorite camo. I thought forums were places where the fakes and originals were sorted out, to give collectors some sort of guidance so they can avoid spending their money on junk. This is obviously not happening to a great degree. Some members occasionally express doubt about questionable camos, but by and large a whole bunch of junk is getting through.

 

[Nzef1940]

Here you go Brian, from this abomination to what lurks beneath.

Will post better images when it arrives.

$400

 

[M45]

http://guardianlv.com/2014/01/art-forgeries-subject-of-museum-exhibit/

Can you spot the difference between real versus fake art ? I can't because I'm not an art expert. They all look good to me. I suppose I would use my gut feelings, depend on my emotions, see what other art novices think and how they are influenced by the work.

Of course I would feel much better about purchasing fine art if the seller said he believed it was authentic, provided a COA, looked at previous well-known owners of the work, and if it was published in a book of art. And it would be important to me that my novice friends liked it also. You see how everything begins to line up ? My 'feelings' for the work get even better. It looks good to me.

So I plop down the huge amount of money for the artwork (remember, I'm not an art expert. I am depending on others telling me what I want to hear), but some time later I find out that it is a forgery. How disappointed do you think I will be ?

The problem: I'm in way over my head purchasing fine art. I'm relying on others and not taking the time to become an art expert myself. Thus, I'm very vulnerable to being ripped off.

 

[M45]

GHW2: This Camo looks good to me but would like some other opinions.

The words of a true camo novice, far too many of these people in the hobby, in way over their heads and depending on others.

Camouflaged German WWII helmets are very much like fine art. They are individual expressions using tools and materials at hand with creativity.

In a very real sense, they are the easiest types of helmets to forge, especially if you use period photos or original camos as you subject, understand the methods and materials actually used during the period, and can effectively age the artwork to make it appear 70 years old.

 

[Nzef1940]

No kidding Brian!

The problem is you condemn to many 'real' Camos along the way! This is my ongoing problem with you.

http://guardianlv.com/2014/01/art-forgeries-subject-of-museum-exhibit/

Can you spot the difference between real versus fake art ? I can't because I'm not an art expert. They all look good to me. I suppose I would use my gut feelings, depend on my emotions, see what other art novices think and how they are influenced by the work.

Of course I would feel much better about purchasing fine art if the seller said he believed it was authentic, provided a COA, looked at previous well-known owners of the work, and if it was published in a book of art. And it would be important to me that my novice friends liked it also. You see how everything begins to line up ? My 'feelings' for the work get even better. It looks good to me.

So I plop down the huge amount of money for the artwork (remember, I'm not an art expert. I am depending on others telling me what I want to hear), but some time later I find out that it is a forgery. How disappointed do you think I will be ?

The problem: I'm in way over my head purchasing fine art. I'm relying on others and not taking the time to become an art expert myself. Thus, I'm very vulnerable to being ripped off.

 

[Nzef1940]

Here you go Brian, from this abomination to what lurks beneath.

Will post better images when it arrives.

$400

Come on, comment on this one Brian?

 

[Frank F.]

Camouflaged German WWII helmets are very much like fine art. They are individual expressions using tools and materials at hand with creativity.

Only true to a degree.

There were quite a few regulations regarding camo'd German equipment. Below bits of the Dunkelgelb Base Color with Disruptive Pattern (HM 1943, Nr. 181.) While the application of the paint is left to available material (Airbrush, Brush, Rags) and a pattern should depend on local conditions, the paint is regulated and only to be acquired through the supply chain. I can imagine local units were "freelancing'." but knowing the mindset of my former countrymen i don't think individual soldiers got artistic with their gear. Suggesting otherwise means you never had a Feldwebel staring you down. Yes, there were NCO privileges like Tunics cut from a Zeltbahn, but that's the rare exception.

You can say that this applied only to motorized units, but look at it from the perspective of an average grunt. How many opportunities would you have to pick up usable paint? How many Houses today are painted in sage green, coyote brown and desert tan?

F.

1. Gerätanstrich. An Stelle des bisherigen Gerätanstrichs, dunkelgrau-
dunkelbraun, der für Kriegsdauer in einfarbig dunkelgrau abgeändert worden ist,
sowie an Stelle des Gerätanstrichs braun-grau für die Truppen in Afrika und auf
Kreta, tritt für Großgerät mit sofortiger Wirkung der Anstrich
dunkelgelb nach Muster.
Nummer der RAL-Farbtonkarte für dieses dunkelgelb wird später festgesetzt.
Muster sind beim Heereswaffenamt Wa J Rü (W u G 1/V), Berlin W 15,
Sächsischestr. 8, aufzufordern.
Für Kleingerät, das in Fahrzeugen mitgeführt wird (z. B. Nachrichtengerät,
Vorratkasten, Werkzeugkasten, Kasten und Koffer des Veterinärgeräts,
Aktenkasten) ist der bisherige Anstrich bis auf weiteres beizubehalten.
Für den Anstrich ist zu verwenden:
P-Farbe nach TL 6321 für Panzerkampfwagen,
W-Farbe nach TL 6320 für Funk- und Nachrichtengerät,
Deckfarbe nach TL 6337 für Gerät aus Magnesiumlegierungen (z. B. Elektronräder
an Geschützen),
im Übrigen Kunstharzfarbe nach TL 6317 B.
Entgegenstehende Bestimmungen treten außer Kraft.

2. Tarnanstrich. Die Tarnung des Geräts durch Auftragen entsprechender Farben
nach den jeweiligen Feldverhältnissen ist Sache der Truppen. Hierzu sind von
den Truppen Tarnpasten (3) mitzuführen in folgenden Farben:
olivgrün nach Farbtonkarte des R. L. M. für Tarnfarben (Gebäude- und
Bodentarnung),
rotbraun, RAL 8017,
dunkelgelb nach Muster wie in Ziffer 1.
3. Die Tarnpasten nach Ziffer 2 werden an die Truppen im Nachschubwege
abgegeben. Zur Berechnung der Gesamtmenge für jede Einheit gelten folgende
Pauschalsätze:
(...)
4. In welchen Formen die Tarnpasten aufzutragen sind, wird dem Ermessen der
Truppen überlassen. Es wird meistens darauf ankommen, die Fläche eines Geräts
(Fahrzeugs) durch verschiedene Farben für die Sicht zu zerteilen.
Im allgemeinen hat sich das Auftragen in größeren Farbflecken unter Vermeidung
jeder Regelmäßigkeit (»wolkenartig«) bewährt.
Die Tarnpasten sind im Anlieferungszustand oder nach Zugabe von Wasser oder
Treibstoff zu verwenden. Sie können außer mit Pinsel auch mit Behelfsmitteln
(Bürsten, Lappen) aufgetragen werden und sind nach kurzer Zeit trocken. Sie
eignen sich auch zum Tarnen von Wagenplanen.
Soweit eine Beseitigung aufgetragener Tarnpasten notwendig ist, kann sie mit
Treibstoff vorgenommen werden.

O. K. H. (Ch H Rüst u. BdE), 18.2.43
- 72/88/16 - In. 2 (V)

 

[Eurofighter]

Only true to a degree.

I can imagine local units were "freelancing'." but knowing the mindset of my former countrymen i don't think individual soldiers got artistic with their gear. Suggesting otherwise means you never had a Feldwebel staring you down.

F.

Frank, A very good point.

I have been living in Germany now for 12 years and the 'mindset' of younger generation Germans is changing. However, the generation of their Fathers and Grandfathers would have been very different. Very much controlled with 'guidelines' and rules which they would have been expected to follow with little or no deviation.

It was the thinking behind my post of the Blue/Green Turtle pattern camo helmet. If that Blue/Green is non-RAL, then the probability that it was not applied by German hands increases. Hence, the Norwegian angle/suggestion from Hambone looks more likely.

EF

 

[Frank F.]

Frank, A very good point.

I have been living in Germany now for 12 years and the 'mindset' of younger generation Germans is changing. However, the generation of their Fathers and Grandfathers would have been very different. Very much controlled with 'guidelines' and rules which they would have been expected to follow with little or no deviation.

It was the thinking behind my post of the Blue/Green Turtle pattern camo helmet. If that Blue/Green is non-RAL, then the probability that it was not applied by German hands increases. Hence, the Norwegian angle/suggestion from Hambone looks more likely.

EF

EF: Where are you at right now? My parents were Prussians, I was born and raised in Bremen, spend 3 years in Bavaria, Freising and Erding outside of Munich, was living in West Berlin from 1986 - 1991, had a brief stint in Vancouver, British Columbia, and have settled in San Francisco.

F.

 

[Eurofighter]

EF: Where are you at right now? My parents were Prussians, I was born and raised in Bremen, spend 3 years in Bavaria, Freising and Erding outside of Munich, was living in West Berlin from 1986 - 1991, had a brief stint in Vancouver, British Columbia, and have settled in San Francisco.

F.

Frank, I am living in Munich (Thalkirchen) and have been here for almost 10 years, prior to that I was living in Braunschweig and working in Wolfsburg (VW) for 2 years.
Of course, I am English but the Auto industry has been reduced to virtually nothing, so needed to move to where the work is. Always had a fascination with Germany since I was a kid, so came here as it was the most stable environment to migrate to. New language, different 'mindset' but I love it here and will not go back to the UK.

EF

 

[Player11]

No kidding Brian!

The problem is you condemn to many 'real' Camos along the way! This is my ongoing problem with you.

Because he doesnt know anyhting at all, he plays a rule too big for him.If you ask him for some specific details he will reply posting another "questionable camo" Glad only few people are just following him.
Only posting here the camos and giving a banal idea ( tool marks, paint work , art work, "freshie exotic camo" ( ) not explaining why....

BTW, the camo posted as favourite of somebody is good.

 

[M45]

No kidding Brian!

The problem is you condemn to many 'real' Camos along the way! This is my ongoing problem with you.

We all know full well that my condemnation of "real" camos is just my opinion, correct ?

But the idea that these camos are supposedly "real" in the first place is just an opinion as well. You don't seem to mind the opinions promoting "real" camos but have a problem with my contradictory opinions. Why ? The are, after all, just opinions.

The difference IMO is that I have given fairly detailed analysis of these "real" camos that reveal numerous red flags. The promoters, on the other hand, can not give much more analysis than, "WOW! One-lOOker!, Dream Helmet, Stunning Original, etc...

BTW Nzef, careful not to wear out your welcome on GHW2. If you do, the only place you will be able to post is here with me : )