Questionable Camos

[Player11]

I agree with Máuser that is very strange M45 doesnt comment anything at all about those camos. Im sure being from another person they would pop up here give minutes after being there, why??!!!

 

[mauser99]

There is a distinction between mine. The provenance is ON the helmet and in the liner on one, the provenance matches up with the helmet. I know the direct provenance of the other, its twin, as it came directly out of the vet's cedar chest who brought it back and was handed to my close friend from whom I got it, while the vet was alive. The FPN in that helmet matches up with the AO of the label helmet and the US units match.

So, don't allude to my postings in an obliquely pejorative manner to somehow conclude that my helmets are "good" because of "who" I am. Because, I'm will to bet however much money you care to put on the table, and even give you five to one odds on it, that those two helmets are original wartime camouflage painted helmets. I posted them for purposes of comparison. If you would like to use mine as benchmark originals, because that is what they are, then compare them based upon that, not some oblique insult concerning "who" posted them. The "who" is completely removed from this and that was the purpose of me posting those.

I'm sorry to drag your name into this as from my angle it has no personal connection. Just the items themselves I had to say something as another helmet is being attacked for some un-known reason maybe because of only where its posted and he doesn't know the poster but, I happen to.

He cant have it both ways and every helmet he posts here has every trait that yours have and you made that point on GHW. Im just trying to have him nail down what makes him pick one over another as there really seems to be no rhyme or reason to it lately.

I'm at the point now I don't give two squirts of piss what he types as it's really all pointless now. I'm just here due to self abuse and I decided this was better than cutting myself.

 

[Hambone]

I'm sorry to drag your name into this as from my angle it has no personal connection. Just the items themselves I had to say something as another helmet is being attacked for some un-known reason maybe because of only where its posted and he doesn't know the poster but, I happen to.

He cant have it both ways and every helmet he posts here has every trait that yours have and you made that point on GHW. Im just trying to have him nail down what makes him pick one over another as there really seems to be no rhyme or reason to it lately.

I'm at the point now I don't give two squirts of piss what he types as it's really all pointless now. I'm just here due to self abuse and I decided this was better than cutting myself.

I think it would be a good idea to compare documented originals to similar camo helmets as part of the analytical process. This isn't a XRFacts type of "these are baseline originals because we say so". This is a matter of these are baseline documented originals because they are, irrespective of what I say or do or who I am. So I would suggest that they be compared and contrasted with others like them for colors, wear, spray patterns, etc., as part of the discussion process.

 

[M45]

Ghw2 camo up for discussion. Is it real, or is it a high-end fake ? Hmmmm...... I know I may be alone on this one.



I would hope that we were all here to learn, I know I am. Re: the subject former wirebasket-normandy 3 color camo, I just posited the question; I'm not making any definitive claims as of yet.

If I become convinced it is original, then congrats to the new owner. But during the years of posting camos, I have come to realize that not everything is what it appears to be.

I have posted camos from GHW2 I thought were authentic, and those I had issues with. I have posted reissues from GHW2 I liked, and those I had problems with. So the theory that I have some 'agenda' does not hold water.

 

[M45]

GHW2 tiger-stripe CAMO

I'm sure I'm not the only one who has seen a piece of very rare militaria in great condition (at a gun show, dealers site/shop, online, etc...) and admiringly said, "WOW!" before seeing another, and another for sale by the same vendor. Then you start becoming suspicious and wondering, "where in heck are they getting all of this stuff ? It can't all be real." Then you start closely re-examining the items and finding inconsistencies.

In a way, this has been happening with exotic freshie camos. There have been loads of them preceding the former wire basket, and more are following behind (no end to them, it seems).

I am reminded of the TV show "Breaking Vegas" about people who scam casinos. This particular guy was minting his own casino tokens. He enlisted help and using the correct alloys he was able to produce flawless examples of several casinos' steel tokens. Of course he got greedy and began cashing in large amounts. When the casinos finally did an audit, they found they had way more tokens than they had minted after estimating how many were privately held. When examining their tokens for fakes, they could not find any! But they were there all right. They watched for the guy and finally caught him.

RE: exotic CAMOS, these were few during the war compared to all WWII German combat helmets. Now today, forums, dealers, ebay etc... are flush with them.


RE: the former basket/normandy 3-color, I see the same type of wear to the crown, not a variety. The paint itself seems to have no real age to it. Rusted areas seem to be more recent, not the smooth dark rust resulting from handling and decades of oxidation.

RE: the tiger stripe camo, a classic loud exotic freshie with contrived wear. Laughable in some circles, taken dead seriously in others.

 

[Player11]

I was sure that you were going to put them here, thanks to the internet era, we have somebody like you, taking an eye for us" To protect and to serve"

 

[M45]

Why don't you dig a trench from GHW2 directly to k98k and fill it with a high capacity data cable. With all of those exotic freshies being posted on GHW2, were going to need a high-capacity feed to handle all of the photos : )

 

[Player11]

Why don't you dig a trench from GHW2 directly to k98k and fill it with a high capacity data cable. With all of those exotic freshies being posted on GHW2, were going to need a high-capacity feed to handle all of the photos : )

Lets do it another way, if you are so intelligent to pop up those "exotic freshie" ( funny name) go to GHW and post directly there, guess you wont support one minute there with the ridiculous arguements there ( and not for being banned), ah no !!! is much easier to be here hidden with a few followers that say yes to all because you have caught them with your "tales"

 

[M45]

in this case I know the fellow posting and know there is NO made up story. I think that's an important part of it.
This helmet shows all the signs as being legit as Hambone's two Normandy ex-wire helmets and I see you make no mention of them ?
They exhibit paint micro spatter and alleged tool marks all the red flags you are warning us about.. So, is it more Who posts not what the red flags are ?

A little review of REX-39's work to sober us all up a bit. Notice the paint aging, the wear, the wire, and OH MY GOD! I thought I saw chicken-wire ghosting !!!

In addition, vet stories and paperwork in relation to woodwork finds etc...does not unfortunately guarantee that such vet acquired camos are original. Vets have had 7 decades to acquire fake items and add them to their collections. Some collectors have ripped off vets by trading fakes for their real items. Vets have acquired fake items at shows and elsewhere. Just because some 'picker' discovers a vet with supposed WWII items does not mean that such items are authentic.

So, re: the ghosted cluck-wire Normandy, I disregard the picker stories, vet stories, wood-work stories, added paperwork and concentrate on the camo itself. Then look at REX's work and see what is possible in reference to postwar camo recreations.

 

[Nzef1940]

'Laughable in some circles, taken dead seriously in others.'

M45, Are you describing yourself or the Camos?

 

[Frank F.]

'Laughable in some circles, taken dead seriously in others.'

M45, Are you describing yourself or the Camos?

I agree with you to a degree. There may be a tub of Kool Aid in the corner, but you have to agree that there's also value here.

ZAM was a nutcase, until he wasn't. We need these voices.

F.

 

[Nzef1940]

There was some value a while ago in the thread, that sadly is long gone.

Too many good lids being bagged.

 

[Frank F.]

There was some value a while ago in the thread, that sadly is long gone.

Too many good lids being bagged.

We still need these voices or it's Shampain all over again. What would be your suggestion?

F.

 

[Nzef1940]

Balance, the pendulum has swung too far..

Though I know I am wasting my breath Frank, see you elsewhere.(forum wise)

Bye.

 

[Frank F.]

Balance, the pendulum has swung too far..

Though I know I am wasting my breath Frank, see you elsewhere.(forum wise)

Bye.

Bye.

F.

 

[Nzef1940]

I painted that one a year or two back, look at the contrived wear etc?

LOL

 

[Player11]

There was some value a while ago in the thread, that sadly is long gone.

Too many good lids being bagged.

Absolutely agree with you. Many good camos posted in GHW are being badly judged here, this can puzzle to noobs apart not showing at all, it looks more a "vendetta"

 

[Player11]

We still need these voices or it's Shampain all over again. What would be your suggestion?

F.

In a sense i agree with you. True we need these voices, i agree on that, but i disagree in the kind of "voice" we are hearing here. Many good camos being posted here to judge here only for the pleasure of a man, i can see that interest in this thread is going down, you only have to see the number of people who posted on it in the beginning and apart of us who is just posting on it, allways the same, and for not saying anything interesting.

As you say, we need a voice, true, but i dont see here anywhere and not in another forum and this thread is becoming very boring since all what appears here is nothing interesting

 

[Hambone]

My opinions: the discord and arguments you see in the hobby are the fault of those engaged in the fakery. They are to blame and laughing at us while we fight amongst ourselves. The problem in German helmet collecting is shown by those who sought to sweep the Great Champagne Rune Fraud under the rug; who actively discouraged getting to the bottom of it; who wanted the discussion to stop; who censored and stopped meaningful discussion. Under those circumstances should we expect these "bigshots" (only in their little worlds, not the real one) to want to stamp out camo forgery?

There is hope at GWH2 and with guys like M45 so it is regrettable that disputes exist. I support both. Free speech does not guarantee speech we all agree with; to the contrary. I would hope that bickering and flames will morph more into substantive and intelligent critique and debate.

 

[M45]

'Laughable in some circles, taken dead seriously in others.'

M45, Are you describing yourself or the Camos?

You know, I hadn't thought about it. I wasn't planning to describe myself that way, but it actually fits!

ZAM was a nut for daring to defy DougB's C-SS claims until he was proven correct. Now ZAM is a hero. Strange this hobby, from their insane asylums come their heroes.



An apparent GHW2 reissue. Found in the authentication thread where it certainly belongs, to their credit it has been outed; but not due to the exterior finish but due to the interior finish.

I'm all for a top to bottom examination of a helmet, and any way you can out this stuff is certainly a good thing. But I think the forum missed a massive lesson here.

What if the interior paint had been original; would the helmet have been accepted with this exterior finish ? No one as yet has seriously scrutinized or questioned this exterior finish. And IMO the exterior finish is what desperately needs scrutinizing.

What zoomed over GHW's head was that the exterior finish is a high-end replica, the forger just neglected to acquire a helmet with an original interior.

The exterior appears at first glance to be 100% period (good color selection, good texture selection, proper application) just the way these were period done (could have been aged a bit more like the helmet below). But it is not period done, it is a high end forgery. Other than a few dings to high points and worn rim, the condition of the finish is pristine. Essentially no believable combat wear whatsoever. This is what has been seen before.