Questionable Camos

[mcorioles]

He seems like a nice man and a gentleman who generously posts his collection for us to review. He has some excellent and interesting items. No one with any size collection of helmets is going to have pieces which are not questionable to some. I do. I don't think criticism of him is merited.

Well said.

Seems the exception is turning into the rule.

 

[mcorioles]

Two points brought up in the last couple posts.

If anything ends up with enough fakes it will cause the bottom to fall out. Even for the ones that are real. Camo helmets based on this thread I believe does qualify. I for one would certainly not start buying them. No new collectors entering + long time Collectors leaving x entire collections being sold off = not enough buyers and too much supply = drop in prices.

What this forum has done for the K98k is desperately needed in other areas of collecting. Camo Helmets and Finnish Rifles are two that come to mind. This thread seems to be a good start for camo helmets, but have any of the big dealers / collectors chimed in? If not it will not have the effect needed.

As for a dealer that sells something that is fake. If he gives money back in full including shipping both ways and then relists the item as a possible fake no one should hold that against them. The grey blanket comes to mind. He does give a full refund with shipping both ways. This is how he maintains his top seller rating on eBay and GunBroker. However I have seen the same item relisted by him with no change in the description. That is a serious problem. If a dealer give a COA that COA should be good for life and come with a money back refund to whoever the owner is for what they last sold it for.

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GHW already provides this service and in much more detail I may add.

Every killer Camo posted shows up as "questionable"here.

You know the old a broken clock is still right twice a day.

Sorry,I don't find this forum a credible place to discuss camos.

And no,I'm not a "insider",nor a dealer.I only know a few guys in the community personally and haven't even been to any shows.

Basically there are 3,4,5 guys here who question everything.

Sure,a nice Camo deserves extra scrutiny more than a beat to hell one.

But common sense tells you if there are beat up ones there are not so beat up ones,nice ones and excellent ones.

The problem I have here is obvious fakes are put up,often times already outed on GHW,that part not mentioned most of the time.

This passes as proof the OP's know their helmets.

Then they proceed to cast doubt on nice camos.

This is not a service,you are harming collectors by trying to artificially driving prices down,not cool.

Yes sometimes these "killer camos" are totally bad or partially,i.e.,replaced liners,chinstrap,exposed decals.....

But I see a tendency here to crap on just about every" above average" camo.

This obviously defies the laws of percentages.

 

[capt14k]

I don't see what interest M45 and Hambone would have in driving down prices. Doesn't M45 openly admit to making and selling Reproductions? Hambone has his own law firm so he certainly is not making a living on Camos and doesn't need to drive down the prices. I think that comment was off base.

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[mcorioles]

I don't see what interest M45 and Hambone would have in driving down prices. Doesn't M45 openly admit to making and selling Reproductions? Hambone has his own law firm so he certainly is not making a living on Camos and doesn't need to drive down the prices. I think that comment was off base.

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Ok,could have been worded better.Not intentionally driving prices down.

And Hambone isn't who I'm referring too.

The rest I stand by.

 

[ZF41 K98k]

Doesn't M45 openly admit to making and selling Reproductions?

Well, isn't that rich! Lol

 

[M45]

GHW already provides this service and in much more detail I may add.

Every killer Camo posted shows up as "questionable"here.


GHW2, despite its long experience of having 1000's of helmets posted there over the years, is largely out of touch when it comes to camo helmets, IMO. That candy-colored Normandy getting serious attention is but one example. Some did like it, amazingly.


You know the old a broken clock is still right twice a day.

Sorry,I don't find this forum a credible place to discuss camos.

With most questionable camos I post, I include a critique specifying my concerns. Why is this not credible ?


And no,I'm not a "insider",nor a dealer.I only know a few guys in the community personally and haven't even been to any shows.

Basically there are 3,4,5 guys here who question everything.

That's what we do on the questionable camos thread.


Sure,a nice Camo deserves extra scrutiny more than a beat to hell one.

But common sense tells you if there are beat up ones there are not so beat up ones,nice ones and excellent ones.

Common sense should also tell you that most of the few surviving really exotic original camos have been collected up years/decades ago, and that exotics popping up 'out of the wood-work' left and right today with no traceable provenance should clue you in that something is amiss. Those kinds of original exotic helmets are few and far between despite how many you see featured in Eastern Front photos or on dealer websites. Those are the kinds of helmets that are bought and sold with a phone call - most of us never even hear about it.


The problem I have here is obvious fakes are put up,often times already outed on GHW,that part not mentioned most of the time.

This passes as proof the OP's know their helmets.


The reason why I created the 'questionable camos' thread was to study them, not necessarily to discuss who also doesn't like them.


Then they proceed to cast doubt on nice camos.

This is not a service,you are harming collectors by trying to artificially driving prices down,not cool.

What you call 'nice camos' I call 'questionable', and I usually detail why.


Yes sometimes these "killer camos" are totally bad or partially,i.e.,replaced liners,chinstrap,exposed decals.....

But I see a tendency here to crap on just about every" above average" camo.

This obviously defies the laws of percentages.

Many questionable camos share common features like near 100% coverage despite heavy rim/vent/rivet/component wear, a nice clear painted name or unit/post #, pristine condition untouched material despite having supposedly seen combat, bright vivid colors, incorrect RAL colors, heavy wear to bare metal alongside pristine material/paint, red rust/recent corrosion on an expensive rare piece of "original" militaria, etc....

 

[capt14k]

Well, isn't that rich! Lol [emoji23][emoji23]

Yes at a few hundred not a few thousand. I see nothing wrong with that.

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[Niblet]

He seems like a nice man and a gentleman who generously posts his collection for us to review. He has some excellent and interesting items. No one with any size collection of helmets is going to have pieces which are not questionable to some. I do. I don't think criticism of him is merited.

Hambone,,I wasn't criticizing RONR or his collection,,merely pointing out that now, during his lifetime of posting his items are being "vetted"
so to speak and when a helmet of his comes to market it will be marketed as a "RonR helmet" thereby being a "sure thing" because of the years of vetting
and collectors recognizing his name,,
Thats all I was trying to point out

 

[M45]

Hambone,,I wasn't criticizing RONR or his collection,,merely pointing out that now, during his lifetime of posting his items are being "vetted"
so to speak and when a helmet of his comes to market it will be marketed as a "RonR helmet" thereby being a "sure thing" because of the years of vetting
and collectors recognizing his name,,
Thats all I was trying to point out

I'll second that. This thread was originally intended as a critique of helmets, not personalities. I do however believe it is important for collectors to know the already common knowledge of who the owners/sellers of these are. It is important because, as Niblet said, many of these get marketed with ownership histories, so I'm not doing anything that "they" are not doing. I recall numerous questionable "Larry Marcella" kamoz from WAF's past. More recently, that hideous chickenwire/Normandy was marketed as a former DougB helmet (remember the one for only $12,500 ?). So the idea of ownership histories being used to market/increase value on helmets is nothing new. This thread may even be helpful in tracking these 'beauties' as they make their rounds and pick up that important ownership history.

Add ownership histories to the other schemes being used to promote questionable kamoz such as COA's, vet acquisition stories, forum vettings, authors putting them in print and also authenticating/selling them, etc...

 

[ZF41 K98k]

Yes at a few hundred not a few thousand. I see nothing wrong with that.

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That's how they all start out, before moving up in $... (speaking in general)

 

[M45]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/100-Origina...279722?hash=item3add5293ea:g:uh8AAOSwOgdYzumf

Here is an 100% original WW2 German M 42 three color Camo Helmet which in very good conditon with damaged but original leather as shown. The helm is straight from the WW2 Vet's Estate and is unaltered. The helm is size 66, the maker is ckl, and the number is 3022. The liner's leather is damaged as shown but is mostly there. A nice, unquestionably original WW2 German Camo Helm that will display impressively. This auction complys with all eBay rules. PLEASE DO NOT ASK TO LOWER THE CUSTOMS FORM VALUE. Please read all terms of this auction before bidding. Will combine multiple purchases to save on shipping.

It's rare to see an Ebay camo looking this good. Shows promise, IMO but caution is always the word of the day. Seller is familiar with collector terms such as 'three color camo', 'unquestionable' and 'displays impressively'.

 

[M45]

GHW2 mail home camo.

 

[Spoof]

GHW2 mail home camo.

Now that looks humped up

 

[Niblet]

Now that looks humped up

Well the owner sure is jazzed about it Said he would bet his life on it

 

[M45]

Help for m42 snow cam and 3color cam

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=905271

Help for m42 snow cam and 3color cam

I could tell just from the title that things would not go well. Two low quality movie props; better lighting not needed although this is a common trick when photographing questionable snow camos, low lighting, shaded photos help to tone down the bright paint.

 

[Hambone]

GHW2 mail home camo.

I believe it was stated that the subject helmet was cleaned. That can account for a changed appearance in paint.

 

[M45]

GHW2 camo Mediterranean theater ?

This camo has a lot of nice features. The pattern is really non-distinct, just blotches and marks here and there. It is not a nice bold tiger stripe, SS dot or swirl pattern. No fancy sand or woodchip media, just paint. Much varied wear and has seen substantial use, no large areas of pristine condition paint.

 

[Frank F.]

You can bitch about GHW camo helmets all you want. If you want to continue seeing them here put a few bucks down:

http://www.ghw2.com/topic/54628-new-raffle-for-march/

Just saying...

F.

 

[Hambone]

GHW2 camo Mediterranean theater ?

Who knows really, but it's good IMHO. Neat helmet.

 

[M45]

Another nice GHW2 camo. A Normandy 3-color that shows age and wear. What ?? No fancy woodship or sand media, no fancy distinct patterns, no bright shiny finish, no chicken/bailing wire, no heavy finish popped off to bare metal, no obviously bad RAL colors ??