M45
Well-known member
http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=901818
I wouldn't mind seeing this white Heer m42 ckl 66 #3169 posted here.
I wouldn't mind seeing this white Heer m42 ckl 66 #3169 posted here.
Questionable Camos
- Thread starter M45
- Start date
mauser99
Senior Member
Could have been recently cleaned or wiped down ? Also the glare in the photos isn't helping.. I'd step out on a limb and say its fine. I know there was some discussion saying otherwise.
mauser99
Senior Member
All I can say is it looks too nice... But, that's not a good reason for not buying an item..
If the story is true and the conditions were correct any helmet can survive in this state.
M45
Well-known member
Thanks for that post.
In this day and age of exotic freshies 'self-replicating out of the wood-work' I would say if a camo looks too nice (in bang-on condition - near 100%) then that is a very good reason to be suspicious. And if you're suspicious, it is NOT a good idea to be buying.
The above white painted snow camo is an excellent example. Probably one of the easiest camos to replicate, just coat an original helmet with spray or brush applied white paint. Now how difficult is that ??
This is one of those 'drying rack' camos that was painted up and then captured before the trooper could even put it back on his head. Over the years since, it has received some storage scuffing, chips and wear, but it clearly was NOT worn in combat after the camo, IMO.
Why would collectors think it is remotely possible that such a helmet would not have been collected up long ago into a high-end collection ? Why would they think that THEY could find something so extremely rare when nobody else has?
-If the story is true and the conditions were correct any helmet can survive in this state.
CAREFUL !! Very dangerous thinking here.
I'll put my money on a vet wanting a snow camo decades ago and so created one. Vet acquisition stories intended to confirm authenticity mean diddly-squat to me anymore, especially in the wake of the C-SS scandal.
Buy the helmet, NOT the story (suitable for a signature line - but mine is full).
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M45
Well-known member
2017 sos camos
2017 SOS camos. The new face of the hobby. I count nearly 20 questionable camos on that one end of the table alone.
I guess SOS is an appropriate name for that show; SOS also means HEEEEEEEEEEELLLLPPP !!!!
2017 SOS camos. The new face of the hobby. I count nearly 20 questionable camos on that one end of the table alone.
I guess SOS is an appropriate name for that show; SOS also means HEEEEEEEEEEELLLLPPP !!!!
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M45
Well-known member
Mauser, that's how many of these get introduced into the pipeline, as part of a 'gallery', online museum, or 'private collection'. Collectors get used to seeing these vetted, and when they finally become available on dealer's sites or helmet forums for example, they have seen them before and are comfortable with them. I don't read those signs saying they are restorations or movie props. They are slated to hit the market someday as authentic for top collector's prices.
Its convenient that it has a story about being in a cedar chest. The one detail of its history that managed to tag along with it was the type of wooden box that it was kept in. Not the branch of service, his name, the areas in which he served. Glad that part stayed with it, so it's condition can be justified. Perhaps it was stored in a cedar chest in Norway. That would make it double plus authentic.
I don't like it. A thick coat of oil paint for winter use, or a medic helmet that didn't get a red stripe, those are the options. Neither does it for me. Cracking doesn't mean anything either. Pop that thing in the oven and that will be the result.
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In all seriousness, I was walking the show and came upon this table and thought it was a table of reproductions for sale (as there were few others that were). Then I saw the signs that they were a private collection and not for sale. Even I could tell that they were all fakes. I don't understand why any of collect these camo helmets. It's like walking a mine field without a mine detector.
mauser99
Senior Member
Some say that or did about German sniper rifles and accessories. But, the fakes and fakers have been weeded out and turds rarely get passed as real anymore.
The last big up-roar I remember hearing was when all the fake French sniper cans hit the market @ SOS.
If you are careful and buy smart German helmets can be a safe field to cross.
I do not completely agree. True accessories are dangerous. And certain German snipers are dangerous like short side rails. But Turrets, Single claws and Long side rails are easy to navigate with some research. When you see a thread started about one of these rifles experts agree on what one should be. Certain rules always apply, mainly because they are not much different from a regular rifle. These rifles were all manufactured and with that comes a long list of features and consistencies in production.
When it comes to camo helmets there are way too many unknowns. Even you guys in this thread can't agree. Everything is "needs hands on examination." I read you guys argue about color, patterns, wear, paint chip, paint chemistry, etc... And then I hear stories about old men walking around with camo helmets trying to sell them as their personal bring backs when they know they are fake. And then you all have years of fakers (who are very good) being in bed with dealers and forum owners who have been publishing books with all this crap in it.
Somethings are just too dangerous. It's the same as German Medals.
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mauser99
Senior Member
Its all how you look at it. Time put in will reap large rewards. I have buddy who can one look any german badge from across a room and tell you if its good or not and who made it. That took decades of dedication. You are comfortable with snipers cause you know them.
Im not trying to say any of its easy cause it isn't.. Look at art fraud. Its rampant but, millionaires line up to buy art. They trust the experts to tell them it's good or not.
Same with this type of collectable. The ones who get the most out of it as the ones who put the most in. If I see something Im not comfortable with I don't buy it plain and simple. All this discussion whether we like or dislike every helmet posted is worth while and constructive.
M45
Well-known member
Easy there Nirvana about that Norwegian crack. We don't want to offend our Norwegian collectors with all of their fresh bright white out-of-the-wood-work snow camos.
You deserve an A++ for the day, Mdarnell. Factory helmets were made to known standards - paint, decals, liners, steel stamps, etc... It is much easier to compare subject helmets to these standards to see if they match up.
Camos, on the other hand, are more subjective because of the nature of their creation - in the field by individual soldiers according to what was available to them combined with their own artistic abilities. Originals are essentially one of a kind and thus bring premium prices. Camos are heavily faked not only for the prospect of the big illegitimate profits, but because the exacting standards of factory helmets essentially do not apply with hand-rendered camos, thus it is much easier to pass off fakes to unknowing collectors because of the vast possibilities. So with all of that subjectivity surrounding camos, fakers only need to find one 'believer' to make the sale.
Niblet
Left Nad
I disagree about the German medals part,,,a good USB microscope is a powerful tool!
Ladorasurf
Active member
I'm happy to post it here. What I find unfortunate, however, is this thread seems to direct collectors to only collect helmets that exhibit a significant amount wear. Personally, I don't like the helmets with a lot of wear and rust--as, for me, a lot of the wear is related to post-war recreational use and the rust is related to poor storage.
I don't really collect German helmets anymore--thankfully. I don't deal helmets to make a living or supplemental income--several people on here know that.
Happy to post additional shots of the helmet...but, it's a white helmet with little wear...not sure what more to say. Having handled 100s of helmets, I know this one is authentic and I have no reason to believe someone would have done the paint post-war.
I also owned an authentic medic with little wear that this thread deemed a fake--which is a shame, as it was one of the nicest and historical items I have owned.
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Ladorasurf
Active member
Having said all that, I can appreciate that you are calling out some of the dealer owned helmets--which few forums are willing to do.
M45
Well-known member
GHW2 KM tan camo.
A nice KM M35 ruined by some yellow spraypaint. The recent rich paint is contrasted with the flat dead factory paint below. Lots of micro-spatter.
A nice KM M35 ruined by some yellow spraypaint. The recent rich paint is contrasted with the flat dead factory paint below. Lots of micro-spatter.
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M45
Well-known member
NEW! Item 919 M42 army camouflage helmet
http://www.germanhelmetsinc.com/helmetssale.htm
This is a great camouflage helmet. I actually owned it some years ago and it is featured in my 2009 book "Germany's combat helmets" on page 245. The helmet is a no-decal M42 EF64. It has been brush painted in three color stripes running fro, back to front. The camouflage paint remains 95% intact. The liner shows heavy wear but is intact and solid. I believe the chinstrap is original to the helmet. $3250.00
Another way questionable helmets get into the pipeline is by being in print (this in addition to features in 'galleries', online museums, private collection showings, and introductions on helmet forums).
Remember that the C-SS fake had also been in print. This was used to bolster authenticity claims.
Assessment: a clumsy 1970s attempt at a 3 color Normandy - 'RAL' colors are way off. A bright, vibrant striking piece that jumps out at you, not something a WWII German trooper would want on his head to draw allied fire. Someone was on psychedelics when they painted up this one. The paint fumes probably helped.
http://www.germanhelmetsinc.com/helmetssale.htm
This is a great camouflage helmet. I actually owned it some years ago and it is featured in my 2009 book "Germany's combat helmets" on page 245. The helmet is a no-decal M42 EF64. It has been brush painted in three color stripes running fro, back to front. The camouflage paint remains 95% intact. The liner shows heavy wear but is intact and solid. I believe the chinstrap is original to the helmet. $3250.00
Another way questionable helmets get into the pipeline is by being in print (this in addition to features in 'galleries', online museums, private collection showings, and introductions on helmet forums).
Remember that the C-SS fake had also been in print. This was used to bolster authenticity claims.
Assessment: a clumsy 1970s attempt at a 3 color Normandy - 'RAL' colors are way off. A bright, vibrant striking piece that jumps out at you, not something a WWII German trooper would want on his head to draw allied fire. Someone was on psychedelics when they painted up this one. The paint fumes probably helped.
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M45
Well-known member
NEW! Item 922 M40 single decal army camouflage helmet
NEW! Item 922 M40 single decal army camouflage helmet
This is a fairly early production M40 single decal army helmet made by ET in early/mid 1940. It is a shell size 64. The helmet exterior has a very decent appearing spray camouglage pattern composed of two colors with the decal showing through. The liner shows moderate wear. The chinstrap is maker marked but I cannot tell the date. It appears that it could be original to the helmet. I like the simple name at the rear "Gotz". It's like the owner was a short spoken type of guy... This helmet is priced at $1675.00
I wouldn't be too worried about the chinstrap on this one. A well-beat M40 SD Heer jazzed up with some tan spraypaint IMO. Care was taken to avoid the original crown patina.
NEW! Item 922 M40 single decal army camouflage helmet
This is a fairly early production M40 single decal army helmet made by ET in early/mid 1940. It is a shell size 64. The helmet exterior has a very decent appearing spray camouglage pattern composed of two colors with the decal showing through. The liner shows moderate wear. The chinstrap is maker marked but I cannot tell the date. It appears that it could be original to the helmet. I like the simple name at the rear "Gotz". It's like the owner was a short spoken type of guy... This helmet is priced at $1675.00
I wouldn't be too worried about the chinstrap on this one. A well-beat M40 SD Heer jazzed up with some tan spraypaint IMO. Care was taken to avoid the original crown patina.
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