Questionable Camos

[M45]

Electric punkin

More spraypaint available (France only)

http://www.dday-1944.com/en/34-spray-paint

Certainly worthy of a place of 'honor' on the Questionable Camo thread. I do recall when outrageous camos would acquire nicknames. 'The Duck' was one I recall. I do believe nicknames are useful to quickly recall past outrages. "Do you remember 'The Electric Punkin' ? Oh, yes indeed!"

This camo represents an early attempt to condition collectors, to get them used to seeing outrageous stuff vetted on established forums so it would become more acceptable, more palatable. Add into this ownership histories, vet acquisition stories and COA paperwork, it become clear how the uninitiated could fall for such buffoonery.

 

[mauser99]

looks like the same POS Hambone posted on his WAF flashback. Funny how these killer all orig. camos never seem to find a permanent home ?
If you owned the mother of all camo's why ever sell such a rare gem ? These are just a very expensive "hot potatos" In my mind and Im not going to get stuck with one when the music stops.

 

[Hambone]

I think we did call that the Electric Punkin. If I recollect, Miller was selling it, Mod Perry FLoid loved it, "one looker" I believe to him Of course, disagreeing with that would get you attacked, censored, then banned by Floid. IMHO, the helmet collecting hobby suffered greatly during the Reign of Buffoons.

 

[Warrior1354]

I wonder if we will see many of these nice fresh camo helmets at next month SOS show too. After all Kelly Hicks will be there too say their real!

 

[deadeye18]

Jeez that electric punkin is one ugly helmet!

 

[M45]

M42 heer camo

M42 heer camo posted on GHW2 for vetting was shot down. Among the problem issues was the painted name over rust. However, an interesting train of thought was introduced, that being why would a faker be so stupid to paint a name over rust ? In other words, it is so fake looking that it must be real. Very dangerous thinking, IMO. Fakers paint names on helmets to increase their value. They paint over rust because that is what is on the surface. They are gambling that collectors will think with their hearts and not their heads.

EDIT:
Hello,

Concerning the name painted in white on the helmet rear skirt : If this is not period original, why a faker would be so stupid and paint directly over a rust spot ?? :banghead:

Regards,

Charles

 

[M45]

Original WW II German M40 Tropical Painted Helmet

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-WW...645976?hash=item3610d543d8:g:T3IAAOSw2xRYdoRM

Original WW II German M40 tropical painted helmet. Helmet bought at a local farm auction. Family reported the helmet was brought back from Italy by their uncle in WWII, but I cannot verify this story. Tropical paint is in good condition, with appropriate wear to edges and crown. Liner is original and perfect, with size 58 marking and cord in place. Chinstrap appears original, although the attachment on the left end may be a replacement. This helmet would look great in any collection.

Starting bid:
US $900.00

French Connection style camo.

 

[mauser99]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-WW...645976?hash=item3610d543d8:g:T3IAAOSw2xRYdoRM

Original WW II German M40 tropical painted helmet. Helmet bought at a local farm auction. Family reported the helmet was brought back from Italy by their uncle in WWII, but I cannot verify this story. Tropical paint is in good condition, with appropriate wear to edges and crown. Liner is original and perfect, with size 58 marking and cord in place. Chinstrap appears original, although the attachment on the left end may be a replacement. This helmet would look great in any collection.

Starting bid:
US $900.00

French Connection style camo.

total hogwash BS story with a shiity attempt at a camo and ageing job. I wouldn't insult that French guy as this thing isn't even close to his caliber of work.. A one Look fake.

 

[M45]

M40 luft camo

http://www.italianwarfront.com/?page_id=20253

Outstanding German war world two camouflage helmet single decal luftwaffe. Shell Q64/56 complete with the original leather liner and chinstrap never replaced, all pins and washers are tight. On the dome you can see the traces of what was a vet mailing home label and a name " Loop " has been painted. The camo paint is in tan with large paint strokes of two tone green. A great example unquestionably real been in my collection for a while. $3,250

 

[NathanLM]

Brian,
Interested as to why you think this one is questionable other than the "exotic" camo pattern. This is not the typical thrashes ND M42, but what looks like a nice M40 LW with good liner. And the addition of "loop"? I don't know the significance, but it seems odd to add such and oddity to a fake. Just curious

 

[NathanLM]

I must admit, this is one I HOPE to be real because I find it so attractive. Maybe blinding my tbetter judgment.

 

[mcorioles]

Seems like the only camos that don't get trashed are totally used and abused ones.

Logic says if there are used and abused ones there are ones that aren't.

And as for the more "exotic" patterns there are hundreds of pictures that show exactly that.

Just an observation.

 

[M45]

Brian,
Interested as to why you think this one is questionable other than the "exotic" camo pattern. This is not the typical thrashes ND M42, but what looks like a nice M40 LW with good liner. And the addition of "loop"? I don't know the significance, but it seems odd to add such and oddity to a fake. Just curious

No, it's not the typical thrashed/hammered helmet with heavily worn paint/decals/components. Don't forget that such helmets are not the only targets for forgers. Think about it; a common Q M40 SD Luft in overall very good condition might bring $1,000 or more on a dealer's site. Add an exotic camo in great condition and now you have a $2-4K helmet (the price of the typical exotic freshie). Try not to get hung up on only thrashed helmets getting "upgraded". Potentially ANY helmet could be a target for forgers if it means adding more value. And that's really the bottom line for these leeches. Maybe someone added "Loop" so collectors would come to the conclusion that it must be real. Why would someone deface a fake that way and risk it being rejected ? Why don't we nickname this camo "Loopy" ?

A typical work-of-art exotic freshie with non-standard vibrant colors (which do not fit a WWII German military theme, IMO) carefully and artfully painted on (time consuming). Well-distributed minor wear (which is unnatural, IMO) despite heavy rim wear, no believable combat wear. It has that 'used but not abused look' that camo collectors like to see. They like their ultra-rare exotic freshies in fantastic condition, and amazingly they are finding them left and right out of the woodwork.

I must admit, this is one I HOPE to be real because I find it so attractive. Maybe blinding my tbetter judgment.

Why would you think this could be real after everything that has been discussed in this thread ? We know that fakes are self-replicating out of the woodwork, that they are using helmets of varied conditions to increase their value, and that they are giving camo collectors exactly what they crave; rare exotic freshies with that 'used but not abused look', just the way they want them.

Seems like the only camos that don't get trashed are totally used and abused ones.

Logic says if there are used and abused ones there are ones that aren't.

And as for the more "exotic" patterns there are hundreds of pictures that show exactly that.

Just an observation.

I have repeatedly posted two camos that I personally like that are used but not abused; the two Normandies. Of all war booty helmets, by far the majority are found with their factory or reissue finishes intact. Camos are considered uncommon. Of camos in general, exotic camos are considered quite rare. So the chances that WE are going to find an AUTHENTIC exotic camo in FANTASTIC condition that has not been long ago collected-up into a high-end collection are very very LOW, IMO. If it seems too good to be true, it probably is.

 

[mcorioles]

No, it's not the typical thrashed/hammered helmet with heavily worn paint/decals/components. Don't forget that such helmets are not the only targets for forgers. Think about it; a common Q M40 SD Luft in overall very good condition might bring $1,000 or more on a dealer's site. Add an exotic camo in great condition and now you have a $2-4K helmet (the price of the typical exotic freshie). Try not to get hung up on only thrashed helmets getting "upgraded". Potentially ANY helmet could be a target for forgers if it means adding more value. And that's really the bottom line for these leeches. Maybe someone added "Loop" so collectors would come to the conclusion that it must be real. Why would someone deface a fake that way and risk it being rejected ? Why don't we nickname this camo "Loopy" ?

A typical work-of-art exotic freshie with non-standard vibrant colors carefully and artfully painted on (time consuming). Well-distributed minor wear (which is unnatural, IMO) despite heavy rim wear, no believable combat wear. It has that 'used but not abused look' that camo collectors like to see. They like their ultra-rare exotic freshies in fantastic condition, and amazingly they are finding them left and right out of the woodwork.





Why would you think this could be real after everything that has been discussed in this thread ? We know that fakes are self-replicating out of the woodwork, that they are using helmets of varied conditions to increase their value, and that they are giving camo collectors exactly what they crave; rare exotic originals with that 'used but not abused look', just the way they want them.





I have repeatedly posted two camos that I personally like that are used but not abused; the two Normandies. Of all war booty helmets, by far the majority are found with their factory or reissue finishes intact. Camos are considered uncommon. Of camos in general, exotic camos are considered quite rare. So the chances that WE are going to find an AUTHENTIC exotic camo in FANTASTIC condition that has not been long ago collected-up into a high-end collection are very very LOW, IMO. If it seems too good to be true, it probably is.

How do you come to that conclusion?Like I said there are many period pics of "exotic" camos" even on this board.I also don't see an extreme amount of real camos posted.

A lot here are obvious fakes.Between WAF and GHW how many "exotic" camos are there? There isn't a over abundance.

And for you to only like two? No offense just my opinion based on what I believe is sound logic.

There aren't camos worn for a few months that were either captured or picked up?

Obviously no one is going out on a limb when you see a used and abused camo,that's easy to see.

 

[M45]

Because there are many period photos of exotic freshies, does that mean we should be seeing them popping up out of the woodwork left and right today ?

There are many period photos of massive numbers of black SS M35 helmets, but where are they all today ?

There are many period photos of groups of early paratroops with M36s and M37s, some with Heer decals. Where are all of those early para helmets today ?

There are many period photos of white camo helmets (and medic red cross), but where are all of the white painted camos (red cross) today ?


Period photos tell us basically what existed back then; they don't necessarily tell us what has survived today or survived in as large of numbers as period photos suggest.

The vast majority of the 25 million M35/M40/M42/M36/M37/M38 helmets that were produced from 1935-1945 no longer exist today. Only about 4% (1 million) of that vast amount even made it to the USA originally, and that was before large numbers were thrown away or irreparably damaged over the decades since the war.

EDIT: It is certainly possible that the German war correspondents who took large number of the surviving WWII Wehrmacht photos tended to be drawn to soldiers with the exotic camo finishes on their helmets to make for more dramatic photos. If so, the numbers of exotic camo photos would give the false impression that these were much more common than they actually were.

 

[mcorioles]

Because there are many period photos of exotic freshies, does that mean we should be seeing them popping up out of the woodwork left and right today ?

There are many period photos of massive numbers of black SS M35 helmets, but where are they all today ?

There are many period photos of groups of early paratroops with M36s and M37s, some with Heer decals. Where are all of those early para helmets today ?

There are many period photos of white camo helmets, but where are all of the white painted camos today ?


Period photos tell us basically what existed back then; they don't necessarily tell us what has survived today or survived in as large of numbers as period photos suggest.

The vast majority of the 25 million M35/M40/M42/M36/M37/M38 helmets that were produced from 1935-1945 no longer exist today. Only about 4% (1 million) of that vast amount even made it to the USA originally, and that was before large numbers were thrown away or irreparably damaged over the decades since the war.

Your last paragraph,how do you know that?

Not doubting you just would like to know where that info is.

There are guys pulling all kinds of helmets everyday that are no doubters.I know a local guy that's pulled 2 DAKS A Normandy and a few HD Heers just in the last year or so and that was in a several hundred square mile area.

I don't think there are a huge amount of legit camos that have been shown.

Like I said just a personal observation.I just think you mixed in at least 10 camos on here in nay about the 30 or so pages I looked at.Two are mine but I'm ok with it.

Yes,all the forum guys liked them but several I know gave had them in hand and liked them,they have no interest one way or another to lie and say it's real.

 

[M45]

I don't think you will find all of those exact figures in print.

The 25 million combat helmets figure is found in L. Baer and also in Goodapple Vol. II I believe.

I extrapolated other figures based on such things as the division of Wehrmacht strength in Eastern vs. Western Fronts (85% eastern vs. 15% Western is what I understand).

We know that 220,000 helmets were produced for the Chinese order (L. Baer) and subtracting that figure from 25 million and then dividing the remainder into 85% and 15% of that you get roughly 21 million helmets in the Eastern Front and close to 4 million in the Western Front.

Helmet book author Bill Maertz once stated that his research of war booty brought home by US GIs was over 1 million German helmets.

Ken N. stated in 'Germany's Combat Helmets' that US GIs returning from Europe noted for taking war booty were about 4 million (on average about 1 out of 4 taking a German helmet home with them).

1 million out of 25 million = 4%.

Of course, most of the German captured equipment in Russia (approx. 21 million helmets) was melted down for scrap, minus the small bit in their war museums or buried on battlefields.

 

[Warrior1354]

Wasn't there just a thread posted on here on Germans helmets being turned into Soup and Stew pots? If one thinks about it what does someone do with all these helmets when the war was over. Not many of the newly formed NATO countries in the post war era wanted too use old Nazi helmets. In the end most were just sent too the scrapped yards along with countless other war material.

 

[M45]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFS_aAVfn_Y

Making post from German helmets (1946) Fulda.

A number of East and West European countries used German helmets postwar. Bulgaria reworked them, Czech used them for fire helmets (black) and tan for the supposed Egyptian contract.

There are Danish, Finnish, Spanish, Norwegian and West German reworks.

Several countries actually manufactured stahlhelm after the war; Spain (M42) Quist (M40) Finland (M40) West Germany (various M40 types used by civic police and border guards-BGS). The GSG-9 West German anti-terrorist squad used a modern version of the M38 para helmet.

Uncompleted Quist M42 shells left over from the war were finally completed by West Germany after the war starting about 1953 with the BGS borderguards and civic police/fire.

 

[Frank F.]

Puppies!!!



Sorry — couldn't resist.

F.