Questionable Camos

[deadeye18]

Happy New year to you too yes unfortunately the power of greed amongst dealers will always be a blight on this hobby.

 

[Eurofighter]

M42 Tunisia/Italian Camo

Happy New Year to all from Munich, Germany.

I would like your thoughts on this EF64 M42 Camo please - it is sourced near Stuttgart, Germany. I have looked at it in hand and it has:

a) Nice wear/rubbing showing feathering of paint layers.
b) Dull patina showing average, but not excessive knocks and bangs.
c) White remnants of what could be 'Whitewash' on the leather of the strap.
d) Paint seems to have been roller applied and not by spraygun or brush.
e) 1942 dated liner, assembled in the workcamps of occupied Lodz, Poland.

I am not sure what field of combat this helmet was last used - but could be from Winter to Spring seasons of combat/activity.

Thanks for your time.

EF

 

[Spoof]

c) White remnants of what could be 'Whitewash' on the leather of the strap.

Thats not whitewash. Its a form of mold or film. Not white paint nor whitewash.

Not an authentic camo in my opinion

 

[Hambone]

Hello Eurofighter,
From the pics, I'm not a fan. It looks artificially aged, with an "aging wash" on it.
Regards,
HB

 

[M45]

Happy New Year to all from Munich, Germany.

I would like your thoughts on this EF64 M42 Camo please - it is sourced near Stuttgart, Germany. I have looked at it in hand and it has:

a) Nice wear/rubbing showing feathering of paint layers.
b) Dull patina showing average, but not excessive knocks and bangs.
c) White remnants of what could be 'Whitewash' on the leather of the strap.
d) Paint seems to have been roller applied and not by spraygun or brush.
e) 1942 dated liner, assembled in the workcamps of occupied Lodz, Poland.

I am not sure what field of combat this helmet was last used - but could be from Winter to Spring seasons of combat/activity.

Thanks for your time.

EF

EF, none of these critiques are the 'kiss of death' in themselves. I add up everything and then make a decision.

a) You will often find questionable camos with a feathering of the paint layers that can be seen on rims especially. This suggests that there were multiple coats of paint applied to the entire shell to produce the camo.
During the war, commodities were often in limited supply and were used/distributed sparingly/cautiously; fuel, food, paint, etc.... These limits do not exist for postwar camo artists and often slop on lots of paint in their attempts to create believable camos. As a general rule, the more paint layering I see on a camo the more I see it as a red flag.

b) I see a richness to the paint that is a red flag. I do not see a dull flatness due to age and oxidation I see on originals. Very minimal wear, a few knocks and dings here and there. Beware of those camos that have that 'used but not abused look'. Forgers are mindful that camo collectors are looking for camos with some wear but not too much.

c) Possibly whitewash remnants on the authentic interior, but it should be evident on the exterior as well, which it is not. Tunisian/Italian two color tan/green camo with snow camo remnants ??

d) Camos (and reissues) are found both brush and spray applied, possibly even by other methods such as rag applied. With the 3 color RAL Normandy scheme, those helmets done at the unit level are most often seen spray applied. I would be leery of any brush applied Normandy scheme. Many questionable Normandys are brush applied because the faker cannot procure correct RAL spray paint.

Rivets have been removed at some point and do not have matching camo (liner out when camo applied?) This is invariably a red flag. There is no conceivable reason for liners to have been removed for a field camo job.

Conclusion: a nice move prop for an Africa/Italian front themed war movie.

What is the lot# on this one? Probably an SD Heer ?

 

[Eurofighter]

Thanks for the replies.

Spoof - I have had this in hand and can say 100% that the white mixture on the chinstrap is not mold.

M45 - I checked the pins and they are tight and straight, also in the hand the paint finish is dull and the colour not 'rich'. Maybe my photographs do not show the helmet as it is in reality. The pictures were shot in a 'lightbox' under artificial light...I tried to subdue the glare, but it is tricky. The paint is not brush applied.

The Lot number is 3654 - right at the end of the decal drop to ND. I checked in your book, which by the way I find very useful.

HB - I take on board what you suggest, as you have much more experience than myself, but in hand the paint looks unmolested.

Thanks for your thoughts anyway, I have a few more days to check this over.

EF

 

[M45]

EF, thanks for that info. I'm glad you like the book.

M45 - I checked the pins and they are tight and straight,

I see camo behind the pins, meaning the liner was out during the camo session. Also, those pins look like they have the M35 style parade finish light green covered by a reissue paint (not the original pins for this RTGG shell).

The components on untouched original helmets have seen the war together and have aged together. They tend to match. Post war altered helmets on the other hand often have a put-together parts-helmet look to them.

As I see it, this low $$$ ND shell was camoed first and then a liner was reinstalled with pins from another helmet. I see no logical reason why a liner would be removed from a helmet prior to a field camo job. This would have been time consuming and completely unnecessary.

 

[M45]

qcoty - contest

QCOTY - Questionable Camo of the Year Contest.

A contest to determine the 'best' questionable camo of 2016. Nominations:

1. Painted on Normandy scheme with incorrect RAL paint and chickenwire basket with an ownership history for only $12,500.

2. The hideous net camo resembling the 'salt-vampire' that attacked Captain Kirk.

 

[M45]

ral paint

RAL spray paint.

http://www.zib-militaria.de/epages/...s/61431412/Categories/"WH Restaurationslacke"

EDIT: no shipping outside of the EU. Sorry helmet restorers

 

[M45]

winter camo

GHW2 exotic white painted winter camo. Sourced from Norway.

It's amazing how we find a period photo of a rare camo, and then we find a helmet with a similar style camo. Over-spray shows this to have been spray painted, not brush painted.

Where did the trooper find white spray paint? At the unit level ? Then I would think any unit camoed helmets would all be solid white. We have seen white paint/whitewash applied by brush.

Photo magnification reveals IMO evenly spaced wide brushstrokes. The jagged edges suggest this, as opposed to a template spray painted job as we see here.

 

[ebeeby]

"Exotic Whitey"

 

[Spoof]

I never understood why Norway was the, "Pot of gold at the end of the rainbow." Too many high quality items supposedly come from there.

If its too good to be true, you know the rest.

Not just helmets, but smocks and visor caps too.

Is it really the honey hole?

 

[M45]

Normandy brush & spray-painted

GHW2 Normandy brush painted (EDIT: repost. Sorry, there are just too many of these things to keep track of

€ 3399.00

Claude Monet
Banks of the Seine at Jenfosse - Clear Weather, 1884

Claude Monet
The Japanese Bridge 1918-1922


Simply beautiful ! There is the RAL tan, the RAL olive green, and something like a red-brown/burgundy.

I think that Claude Monet's son was drafted into a French Volunteer Wehrmacht unit who camoed his helmet. I can see the artistic abilities being passed down in the family.

 

[M45]

normandy spray painted

Normandy spray painted

 

[M45]

NEW! Item 883 M40 "Normandy" spray camo helmet

http://www.germanhelmetsinc.com/helmetssale.htm

This one will break your heart. 6 months ago it was a beautiful "Normandy style" airbrush camo helmet. One of the finest I've seen. (see the bottom photos for the comparison) 3 months ago, this helmet was in a house fire. Not directly burned but the intense heat cooked the camo paint and blackened it. Amazingly the leather was not damaged and nor was that beautiful inside skirt paint. The helmet is an SE64 M40. The unlucky owner sent it to me to sell it. ON HOLD


Misadventure by fire. This Normandy was compared to REX-39s work in post#743 of this thread.

An alternate story might go like this: 6 months ago it was a questionable Normandy camo that had been criticized for being too bright/new looking and compared to the work of a known restorer (REX-39). The owner thought he/she would tone down the paint a bit with a propane torch, but got too heavy handed with the fire and "ruined" it. (The word "ruined" here is relative)

 

[M45]

03-06-2014, 09:22 AM post#79

VIVID 3-COLOR CAMO

http://www.germanhelmetsinc.com/helmetssale.htm

Item 751 M42 3 color camouflage helmet

This M42 helmet is a size 66 EF. The EF maker mark is so faint as to be almost invisible. The three color camouflage pattern is an interesting type produced in a very mottled pattern by brush. The paint has fairly coarse woodchips mixed with it and in many places where the paint has worn away; the woodchips are exposed. A lot of paint is missing from the front split-pins; the one at wearers right has only a tiny portion left clinging. There is no sign of an underlying decal. Overall; very vivid colors. ON HOLD

It seems as if these 'sawdust camos' are all the rage now. This hunger for 'exotic camos' and SS decals is insatiable, and strangely, they are being 'found in the woodwork' left and right. But is this a 70 year old paintjob?
When zooming in on some of the woodchips, I notice the pristine condition of their structure.

It's back, haunting us again like cold sores from a herpes infection.

NEW! Item 876 M42 army helmet with saw-dust mixed camouflage paint
This is an EF66 helmet which was produced early enough to have had a service-branch decal applied at the factory but that decal is completely hidden by the camouflage over-paint. The helmet has a base coat of tan that was applied by a medium sized brush. The green and reddish-brown was applied after with that same type of brush. The colors seem to blend in with each other at points. Sawdust or light wood-shavings were mixed in with the base coat giving the surface a very good texture. The camouflage paint remains 95% intact. The liner shows fairly light and consistent wear; remaining completely intact and sound. The chinstrap is a pigskin example which is dated "194-" (honestly, I think sometimes that the manufacturers would purposely obscure that last digit in order to drive future collectors nuts). Overall, this is a brighter-than-average camouflage helmet that displays exceedingly well. $2950.00

 

[deadeye18]

VIVID BULLS#/# more like!looks like a kid was let loose with a paint set.

 

[M45]

NEW! Item 879 M35 Army helmet with Tropical camouflage

http://www.germanhelmetsinc.com/helmetssale.htm

This one has everything that I look for when shopping for a tropical camouflage helmet. My favorite feature is the paint on the inside skirts which spills onto the liner frame and chinstrap bales. Second favorite feature is the obviously well used liner that has been wetted and sweated in repeatedly. The helmet is an SE66 which originally left the factory as a double decal army helmet. There is no visible trace of the national color shield due to the thick paint. But we can see traces of an army decal in damaged areas. The color is a non-standard tan color. Meaning it is definitely not later war "ordnance tan" vehicle paint. Nobody can say for certainty but for the reasons stated above, I believe this helmet saw service with PanzerArmeeAfrika. It's a great example. $3850.00

2017 is already shaping up to be a bang-up year for questionable camos! They're com'in in like army ants, Mabel !

This paint has a sheen despite being 70 years old and even textured. It has a richness to it like recently applied paint, not the dead flatness of many known originals. (It's almost like the paint used was a satin and not a flat) Much paint popped off of this thing in addition to recent red rust. Not much of anything I would call combat wear. Some areas of damage to the factory finish appear to have been camoed around. I've seen the strange 'eyebrow' before, and may be a 'faker's mark' (like the weird heart). Liner is worn but nothing like original Afrika pots I've seen that were sweat stained very dark. This liner is not unusual at all in it's staining, could have come from any German combat helmet. The bit of camo on the liner band is a nice touch, but unconvincing. These 'nice touches' are well known by fakers who make efforts to recreate them to make their 'products' more desirable.

Near 100% of camo remaining despite heavy rim/vent wear. It has that 'used but not abused look that we like to see'. Also, I think the typical DAK tan helmet has a much smoother finish.

While the Normandy 3 color brush/spray with/without texture/woodchips may be the most popular faked camo, the Afrika/Italian tan may be the second most popular.

 

[Frank F.]

I know the previous owner and he is a honest guy. His house got struck by lightning, burned, and he lost almost everything in the fire, including his pups.

I also know that this helmet is not a Rex creation because I asked Rex. You are off here.

F.

http://www.germanhelmetsinc.com/helmetssale.htm

This one will break your heart. 6 months ago it was a beautiful "Normandy style" airbrush camo helmet. One of the finest I've seen. (see the bottom photos for the comparison) 3 months ago, this helmet was in a house fire. Not directly burned but the intense heat cooked the camo paint and blackened it. Amazingly the leather was not damaged and nor was that beautiful inside skirt paint. The helmet is an SE64 M40. The unlucky owner sent it to me to sell it. ON HOLD


Misadventure by fire. This Normandy was compared to REX-39s work in post#743 of this thread.

An alternate story might go like this: 6 months ago it was a questionable Normandy camo that had been criticized for being too bright/new looking and compared to the work of a known restorer (REX-39). The owner thought he/she would tone down the paint a bit with a propane torch, but got too heavy handed with the fire and "ruined" it. (The word "ruined" here is relative)

 

[Spoof]

I know the previous owner and he is a a honest guy. His house got struck by lightning, burned, and he lost almost everything in the fire, including his pups.

I also know that this helmet is not a Rex creation because I asked Rex. You are off here.

F.

I have to agree. I've known Andy for a number of years. Just talked with him on the phone today as a matter of fact.

The helmet was in a house fire. No blow torch there big guy.