Questionable Camos
- Thread starter M45
- Start date
Me 2.............
M45
Well-known member
At first glance, I like it as well. But consider the 'exotic freshie' look (bright vibrant colors), basically 100% of the camo remains, and the detail shots show no combat wear whatsoever that I can see, only a very few spots with paint missing and one significant ding to the rivet head.
This helmet saw basically no combat after being camoed. Now that's strange...I thought camos were front line helmets.
Note that the 'restorer' stayed away from the factory paint on the crown thereby preserving the natural wear up there. A pretty savvy move that we can expect to see more of over time. Some restorers are not simply slopping their camo over the entire helmet and then knocking the dried camo off of the rim and airvents with a screwdriver with a few random dings for good measure, a method we have seen ad-infinitum on this thread. They are carefully considering where their camo should be and where it should not be. Since they certainly want their work to be accepted as authentic (and thereby succeed in the illegitimate camo business) savvy restorers are preserving the natural patina and wear on certain areas by painting around them.
We have seen camos that have rims apparently painted around. That way they do not have to explain all of those hard breaks to the paint after it is removed.
Newly applied paint has also been left off of high profile rivet heads and studs, authentic dings and scrapes, and also the crown with its authentic natural patina.
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Many camos were static defense helmets and saw action hanging on bunker or barracks hooks. There were huge numbers of static troops with camo helmets manning coastal defense (KM and Heer) and flak (Luft.) emplacements in defensive and coastal areas which saw little action, some no action at all. Their helmets would have been camo'd and worn during drills to man guns and emplacements. We have period photographs confirming this.
There were also reformed and newly raised units which were issued reworked camo'd helmets at depots IMHO. Some of these units saw little or no action. I would say that the majority of field / unit done camo helmets were with units attached to AFVs, vehicles, crew served weapons, etc., which were sprayed / camo'd with the equipment. We have period photographs confirming this.
I post this with the caution that such comments are often used as a sales pitch to affirm humped lids. My "rules" since the early 90s: 1) presume a camo fake and let the helmet convince you otherwise; 2) 80% of camos are fake. (this is optimistic).
M45
Well-known member
This helmet saw basically no combat after being camoed. Now that's strange...I thought camos were front line helmets. - M45
Let me rephrase the above into something like, 'this helmet shows basically no use after being camoed'. Static defense camos are probably the ones that, while having most of their crown camo paint intact, certainly show rubs, dings and wear marks due to daily handling. Those static defenses had plenty of steel and concrete for helmets to bang/rub against and this should be evident on those helmets. Daily use will have paint worn to down, often to bare metal especially on the rims.
On the above 2-tone SD Heer close-up shots, I see pristine condition camo (essentially, not any sign of wear). This should not be so even with static defense helmets.
Let me rephrase the above into something like, 'this helmet shows basically no use after being camoed'. Static defense camos are probably the ones that, while having most of their crown camo paint intact, certainly show rubs, dings and wear marks due to daily handling. Those static defenses had plenty of steel and concrete for helmets to bang/rub against and this should be evident on those helmets. Daily use will have paint worn to down, often to bare metal especially on the rims.
On the above 2-tone SD Heer close-up shots, I see pristine condition camo (essentially, not any sign of wear). This should not be so even with static defense helmets.
M45
Well-known member
http://www.ghw2.com/topic/52714-m40-cammo-et-43/
Seen this one before and did not like it then,was said to be real but found out cammo was added a long time ago by a Uk dealer in the 80s he told me so.was 1200 pounds at the time.
Seen this one before and did not like it then,was said to be real but found out cammo was added a long time ago by a Uk dealer in the 80s he told me so.was 1200 pounds at the time.
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M45
Well-known member
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M45
Well-known member
HOTY - Helmet of the Year contender at GHW2
EDIT: achieved runner-up status
Red flags:
1. snow camo
1a. white painted snow camo (as opposed to the common whitewash)
2. exotic freshie - wild pattern
3. red rust - recent oxidation
4. heavy corrosion to bare steel (evidence of a recent 'cooking' session)
5. damaged areas of factory finish possibly painted around
6. no sign of decal - low $$ helmet
EDIT: achieved runner-up status
Red flags:
1. snow camo
1a. white painted snow camo (as opposed to the common whitewash)
2. exotic freshie - wild pattern
3. red rust - recent oxidation
4. heavy corrosion to bare steel (evidence of a recent 'cooking' session)
5. damaged areas of factory finish possibly painted around
6. no sign of decal - low $$ helmet
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M45
Well-known member
I'm not saying that one issue (wild pattern in this case) is the kiss of death.
It is a multitude of issues. The 'exotic freshie wild-pattern is a red flag because many questionable camos are in fact of the exotic variety.
Why? Because that's where the demand is. Camo collectors pay premiums for exotic camos, especially those with most of their camo remaining - those with that 'used but not abused look'.
Why would 'restorers' create dead, flat looking camos with a large part of their camo paint missing (just like many originals) when that is not where the biggest money is ?
It is a multitude of issues. The 'exotic freshie wild-pattern is a red flag because many questionable camos are in fact of the exotic variety.
Why? Because that's where the demand is. Camo collectors pay premiums for exotic camos, especially those with most of their camo remaining - those with that 'used but not abused look'.
Why would 'restorers' create dead, flat looking camos with a large part of their camo paint missing (just like many originals) when that is not where the biggest money is ?
Eurofighter
Well-known member
mauser99
Senior Member
I agree in the 1st statement. that lid is as right as rain. I had that one in hand. Bullet strike and it cut the rear leather strap as well..
As far as the second statement I haven't looked through that book so I cant comment.. Heard it was horrible.
M45
Well-known member
http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=887090&page=9
An interesting comment regarding that recent M35 Medic helmet:
I've enjoyed this thread...I've seen some thoughtful and spot-on posts by Scott, Willy, Coloradocowboy, deathshead.....
There is definitely a paranoia in the community regarding camo's, wired, medic, etc. Some collectors take a pollyanna type view of the hobby and make it sound like there is no reason for all his paranoia..."it's all good...an endless supply of exotic freshies self replicating out of the woodwork, M42 SD's becoming harder to find...shiney paint?...no big deal...we got this!"
Each collector has a personal threshold for risk in this hobby when it comes to these kind of helmets. Mine is low. I am not an eternal optimist. I personally think the level of fakery in the hobby exceeds anything thought possible...and when the shoe drops as it did with the CR, many many collectors will have shelves full of camo's and medics and wired lids that are worthless. Exhibit A is that Luftwaffe DD in the thread deathshead posted. Seems like the only red flag raised was the decal...people loved the camo at first...all thumbs up! Had the faker just camo'd the helmet and avoided decals that helmet would probably be sitting on somebody's shelf right now.
As for this helmet...I don't like it. I personally wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole. That's just me and my low threshold for risk. Even if it was found at a flea market for $500 I still wouldn't buy it, as I also just wouldn't sleep well at night with this one on my shelf.
an endless supply of exotic freshies self replicating out of the woodwork,
Suitable for a signature line, IMO.
An interesting comment regarding that recent M35 Medic helmet:
I've enjoyed this thread...I've seen some thoughtful and spot-on posts by Scott, Willy, Coloradocowboy, deathshead.....
There is definitely a paranoia in the community regarding camo's, wired, medic, etc. Some collectors take a pollyanna type view of the hobby and make it sound like there is no reason for all his paranoia..."it's all good...an endless supply of exotic freshies self replicating out of the woodwork, M42 SD's becoming harder to find...shiney paint?...no big deal...we got this!"
Each collector has a personal threshold for risk in this hobby when it comes to these kind of helmets. Mine is low. I am not an eternal optimist. I personally think the level of fakery in the hobby exceeds anything thought possible...and when the shoe drops as it did with the CR, many many collectors will have shelves full of camo's and medics and wired lids that are worthless. Exhibit A is that Luftwaffe DD in the thread deathshead posted. Seems like the only red flag raised was the decal...people loved the camo at first...all thumbs up! Had the faker just camo'd the helmet and avoided decals that helmet would probably be sitting on somebody's shelf right now.
As for this helmet...I don't like it. I personally wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole. That's just me and my low threshold for risk. Even if it was found at a flea market for $500 I still wouldn't buy it, as I also just wouldn't sleep well at night with this one on my shelf.
an endless supply of exotic freshies self replicating out of the woodwork,
Suitable for a signature line, IMO.
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M45
Well-known member
M38 FJR6 woodchip camo
I just don't like the look of this one. The multitude of paint popped off and the liberal recent oxidation is troublesome. Pristine paint in many areas, such as on some of the bolts.
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M45
Well-known member
Questionable Luft Tan on GHW2
A whole lot of paint flaked off of this one, but surviving paint in pristine/new condition. Little if any actual combat wear that I can see.
Rim has the red rust indicative of recent oxidation. This was a spray job re: liner. They got a little bit of paint on the liner band, which is a nice touch.
A whole lot of paint flaked off of this one, but surviving paint in pristine/new condition. Little if any actual combat wear that I can see.
Rim has the red rust indicative of recent oxidation. This was a spray job re: liner. They got a little bit of paint on the liner band, which is a nice touch.
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Hi Brian
I disagree with you on this one as well. The rust is brown, not typical red rust one sees on fake exotic freshies. The camo pattern is highly unusual, but it is original IMO. That the white color is paint and not white wash is also logical as the helmet originates from Norway. Many helmets where painted and not whitewashed in garrisons and costal forts in Norway. The wear on it is very convincing, and not evidence of a recent cooking session at all.
I see mud cracks on the left side where the decal is. It is also possible that there is an overpaint of grey paint ontop of the factory paint.
Although I agree with you on many helmets that they are indeed questionable, you also claim that good helmets are bad. I therefore have to disagree when I see a good helmet questioned.
Regards,
Rune
M45
Well-known member
Fair enough, Rune. We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.
Correct vehicle paint can be duplicated. The long straight scratches are a bit odd as well. I just don't see the wide variety of wear seen on many issued helmets. Issued helmets with factory paint are a good measure that display the wide variety of wear that issued helmets typically have. With this tan Luft, I see large amounts of paint flaked off, some long straight scratches, and some recent oxidation to the rim. In between the flaked areas I see pristine conditioned tan paint.