Questionable Camos

[mauser99]

http://www.ghw2.com/topic/53370-m42-camo-helmet/

Some work of a French 'restorer'.

If any a batch of photos needed to be posted here it was those... There are some scary good camo's in that lot.
To be honest far more scary than a REX job. No disrespect to Rex but his work is very consistent and easy to spot once you see enough examples.
I guess these are being sold on ebay Europe ???

 

[M45]

WWII German Model 1942 Army Medics Helmet

H-137
WWII German Model 1942 Army Medics Helmet $ 5,950.00


WWII German Model 1942 Army Medics Helmet- This fantastic helmet was recently purchased by us from the esteemed collector Doug Buhler of Canada. This scarce helmet started life as a single decal Army example, but was issued to a medic who covered the original dark green combat finish with a thickly applied white finish. The addition of a red cross to the front of the helmet helped identify the wearer as a medic. The finish remains 80% intact overall; interestingly, the area where the decal was has lost the finish, leaving behind the actual shield shape of the decal. A very close examination reveals that little pieces of the decal remain, indicating to us that the paint did not adhere properly to the decal causing it to fall off. Inside, the brown leather liner shows some minor wear and discoloration from use. It is size stamped 60 and has a drawstring. There is a non reinforced zinc liner band which is maker marked, dated 1940 and size marked 60. The shell is stamped on the side of the interior “ET 68” which indicates this was produced by Eisenhuttenwerke of Thale in the size of 68. The rear of the skirt is stamped with the production lot number of “1915” (would have been produced in 1942). There is a brown leather chinstrap which is complete but separated at the adjustment end (this could be easily repaired if you desire to do so). Mega scarce and desirable!

...from the esteemed collector Doug Buhler of Canada

Well-distributed mild to moderate wear which is unnatural, IMO - no heavy wear to the crown as we saw with that KM medic. Cross appears to have been painted with a watered down orange paint, not faded from use and the elements. Lots of paint popped off of this one with hard breaks with attention to the decal area. A strange material pattern looks like some sort of cloth was placed over this one while still tacky. The light and dark spots are odd.

 

[M45]

M42 wood-chips

++ http://www.ghw2.com/topic/53404-wood-chips/

Same old story; an exotic freshie - 3-color Normandy with woodchips, no less. Near 100% coverage with a recreation of the 3-color scheme IMO (colors are not true). Pristine condition of the woodchips and paint amidst paint popped off with hard breaks. Bare metal has rust pitting, inconsistent wear on rivet heads.

A GHW 2 member asking some uncomfortable questions.


++ This one was on the consignment section:

German helmet M-42 EF-66 sawdust chunky camo.

$2,200
http://www.italianwarfront.com/?page_id=17219


++ EDIT: It looks like this one had also been for sale on Ken N.'s site (post#79)

VIVID 3-COLOR CAMO

http://www.germanhelmetsinc.com/helmetssale.htm

Item 751 M42 3 color camouflage helmet

This M42 helmet is a size 66 EF. The EF maker mark is so faint as to be almost invisible. The three color camouflage pattern is an interesting type produced in a very mottled pattern by brush. The paint has fairly coarse woodchips mixed with it and in many places where the paint has worn away; the woodchips are exposed. A lot of paint is missing from the front split-pins; the one at wearers right has only a tiny portion left clinging. There is no sign of an underlying decal. Overall; very vivid colors. ON HOLD

 

[M45]

Item 779 M40 army camouflage helmet

http://www.germanhelmetsinc.com/helmetssale.htm

This is an ET62 M40 single decal army helmet that has been covered over in a two-color brush-painted camouflage pattern. The camouflage used a coat of ordnance tan paint as a base while the green was applied and sort of blended in. There is no trace of the decal beneath the paint; I just assume one would have been placed there by the factory as it is a fairly early war helmet. Unluckily the liner is a rag and the strap has not faired much better. A nice camo helmet for the price ON HOLD

 

[M45]

NEW! Item 870 M35 Army Medic helmet

http://www.germanhelmetsinc.com/helmetssale.htm

Have a seat while while you examine the photos of this beauty. It is a striking example of the "grand-daddy" of German medic helmets; being the most popular design of red cross application (the single cross applied at the top with the arms spread down along the sides) The helmet itself is a former double decal army helmet produced by F.W. Quist in 1938. The liner frame bears a 1938 date. The acceptance stamp inside the dome is mostly obscured by dirt build-up but the "38" can beseen in the date. The chinstrap is by all indications; original to the helmet but the maker mark cannot be seen. The helmet had its decal removed before the application of the white paint and red cross. The red/white paint remains 95% intact. The interior of the helmet is in commensurate condition and has a folded up newspaper tucked between the leather and the shell ostensibly used as a size adjustment. The helmet was issued to at least two different soldiers whose names are found inside. One of them penned in his Feldpost number '18529' which was assigned to the 2nd Kompanie Krankentransport abteilung 551 (2nd ambulance company, medical transport unit 551) which was mobilized on January 1st, 1940 just in time for the "Sitzkrieg" which led up to the invasion of western Europe in the spring of that year. This helmet knocks every other medic helmet out of the ring; It's an M35; It is unit identified; It has the best red cross application pattern; It is in striking condition (inside and outside) further; it is a huge shell size 68, liner size 60, most importantly, I have no problem issuing my 100% lifetime guarantee of complete authenticity. There is literally nothing else you can ask for in a medic helmet! $6500 ON HOLD

 

[Spoof]

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=887090

Let er rip.

 

[Nzef1940]

Not a single comment on WAF so far....

 

[mauser99]

He posted the same thing on GHW and got about the same response. Most everyone doesn't like it. Giorgio had one on his site a few years back and it didn't sell then he finally dumped it on ebay. I tried to comment there but, I have issues over there with my posts loading ? Anyway, this is truly a fantasy helmet IMHO. I came across a much better example at a local auction and it was shot down as well. I didn't buy it but should have as it went cheap. The liner and strap were worth the hammer price in the end. I never really had any interest in a white helmet or medic and never saw the reason why they sell for what they do ???

 

[M45]

A camo previously critiqued on post #114 of this thread, now on GHW2. A high lot numbered Q66 M40 with Heer decal and camo paint.




---------------------------------------

M40 NORMANDY CAMO

German WWII M-40 single decal WH lightly spray painted 3 color Normandy camo. Large 66/58. The long part of the chinstrap is broken. Original liner to the helmet with all pins and washers unmolested.

$2350 on hold

http://www.italianwarfront.com/?page_id=9

Stunning is the only word I can use to describe this beautiful camo. It has everything a collector could want. It has what appears to be a factory big-foot heer decal. It has exotic stripes. The camo has convincing wear throughout. The components are original. Look at the detail photos of the wear. It seems to be in conjunction with the factory finish, just like we want to see them.

So, why am I not recommending that you buy this camo?

Here is where lot number research can help. The lot number of this helmet is DN506. The Q66 is rear marked above the lot number.

The last known SD HEER in the lot number list of this maker, model and series is lot# DN361, roughly corresponding to the 28 August 1943 decal drop. This series progresses to about lot# DN563 where the war apparently ended. Lot number DN506 would likely be late 1944 or 1945 production. (The changeover from side to rear Q66 marking was taking place in the DN300-DN361 range. Thus, almost all Quist M40 DN series SD Heers are side marked.)

So how did a Q M40 with this high of a lot number acquire what appears to be a factory applied Quist big-foot decal?

 

[M45]

Post your "authentic" Medic Helmets on WAF

Post your "authentic" Medic Helmets on WAF

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=887269&page=4

I cannot view photos there, but it sounds as if there is that impressive M35 KM Medic helmet and one of Ron R.'s medic helmets.



Giorgio had one on his site a few years back and it didn't sell then he finally dumped it on ebay. (mauser99)

Which were you referring to ? I have seen a number of IWF medic helmets over the years.

 

[mauser99]

It was one of them. I cant remember which one now and all the auction info is gone. I feel he wasn't convinced by it and sold it off on ebay and not his web-site I think it sold for around a grand and was sold with the pretense it was up for debate. I do frequent Giorgio's site and have to say I like the guy and most all his stuff seems honest. But, we all can make mistakes.

 

[mauser99]

A camo previously critiqued on post #114 of this thread, now on GHW2. A high lot numbered Q66 M40 with Heer decal and camo paint.




---------------------------------------

M40 NORMANDY CAMO

German WWII M-40 single decal WH lightly spray painted 3 color Normandy camo. Large 66/58. The long part of the chinstrap is broken. Original liner to the helmet with all pins and washers unmolested.

$2350 on hold

http://www.italianwarfront.com/?page_id=9

Stunning is the only word I can use to describe this beautiful camo. It has everything a collector could want. It has what appears to be a factory big-foot heer decal. It has exotic stripes. The camo has convincing wear throughout. The components are original. Look at the detail photos of the wear. It seems to be in conjunction with the factory finish, just like we want to see them.

So, why am I not recommending that you buy this camo?

Here is where lot number research can help. The lot number of this helmet is DN506. The Q66 is rear marked above the lot number.

The last known SD HEER in the lot number list of this maker, model and series is lot# DN361, roughly corresponding to the 28 August 1943 decal drop. This series progresses to about lot# DN563 where the war apparently ended. Lot number DN506 would likely be late 1944 or 1945 production. (The changeover from side to rear Q66 marking was taking place in the DN300-DN361 range. Thus, almost all Quist M40 DN series SD Heers are side marked.)

So how did a Q M40 with this high of a lot number acquire what appears to be a factory applied Quist big-foot decal?

Based off the image at this angle the decal is fake. M40 Q's that are late and decaled the eagle is not of the same quality as the earlier big foot type.
ADDED:
Both of these BF decals are fake. Taken off helmets of war website. The one on the left looks like the one used on the camo helmet.
This one isn't that late type. There is just enough of it present to be able to tell that. There are some really good big foot fakes showing up but they usually end up on a non Q shell.. I had posted one for discussion on GHW a while back.
The one on the left looks like the one used on the camo IMHO.

 

[M45]

Mauser, this thread is like tracking software for questionable camos. We are seeing the same ones pop up repeatedly for sale on various dealer websites and on helmet forums. They keep bouncing around looking for a permanent home, kind of like a virus.

Ok, so I'm not a helmet decal 'expert', but one does not have to be with lot# research. This M40 Q66 DN506 helmet should be a no-brainer for a late war factory no-decal helmet (last Heer BF decal at lot# DN361) . And since Quist Big-Foot Heer decals are not known to have been used as reissue decals, it is clear that not only was the decal applied post-factory, but likely post war. Given that, the camo on top of the post-war applied decal must be post war as well.

If collectors want to carefully examine and debate the decal and camo, that is up to them. But IMO lot# research makes this unnecessary in this instance.

EDIT: I'm pleased by the negative GHW2 posts on this one despite the well known previous owners.

 

[nirvana]

Every damn medic helmet, every damn one, they all look fake. Unless there was one in the Patton museum picked up by the general himself with a wartime photo of him holding it, I will have a hard time ever being convinced of one's authenticity.

 

[Spoof]

I agree to an extent. Most posted are fake. As are most camo helmets.

 

[Spoof]

I just received infraction points on WAF for not going with the flow on the medic helmets. No surprise.

Are you FUCKING kidding me?

They old guard is still protecting certain dealers.

 

[Nzef1940]

I just received infraction points on WAF for not going with the flow on the medic helmets. No surprise.

Are you FUCKING kidding me?

They old guard is still protecting certain dealers.

Yes indeed.

 

[M45]

This GHW2 post sums up well the Q66 M40 DN506 3 color camo. It is a good lesson for us to see what is being done and what can be done in the camo collecting field. Even with lot# research, there are die-hards that won't let it go.
How difficult would it have been to show this one as postwar modified without lot# research ? How difficult if it had had an ownership history of famous names, COA paperwork, and "vet association" like C-SS ?

The 'exotic freshie' look is definitely something to give us pause every time.

 

[M45]

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=887090

Let er rip.

He posted the same thing on GHW and got about the same response. Most everyone doesn't like it. Giorgio had one on his site a few years back and it didn't sell then he finally dumped it on ebay. I tried to comment there but, I have issues over there with my posts loading ? Anyway, this is truly a fantasy helmet IMHO. I came across a much better example at a local auction and it was shot down as well. I didn't buy it but should have as it went cheap. The liner and strap were worth the hammer price in the end. I never really had any interest in a white helmet or medic and never saw the reason why they sell for what they do ???

Without outright declaring which medic I think is real and which I think is not, notice the stark differences between these two. The paint on one is heavily faded; the other bright, vibrant and new looking. One has heavy wear to the crown consistent with known originals, the other has a few parallel scratches and very little if any combat wear.

These things will keep popping up on dealer's sites because there is a demand for them. Many collectors would like to own such a rare helmet. And dealers will continue to sell them and go on helmet forums to justify them.


------------------------------------


NEW! Item 870 M35 Army Medic helmet

http://www.germanhelmetsinc.com/helmetssale.htm

Have a seat while while you examine the photos of this beauty. It is a striking example of the "grand-daddy" of German medic helmets; being the most popular design of red cross application (the single cross applied at the top with the arms spread down along the sides) The helmet itself is a former double decal army helmet produced by F.W. Quist in 1938. The liner frame bears a 1938 date. The acceptance stamp inside the dome is mostly obscured by dirt build-up but the "38" can beseen in the date. The chinstrap is by all indications; original to the helmet but the maker mark cannot be seen. The helmet had its decal removed before the application of the white paint and red cross. The red/white paint remains 95% intact. The interior of the helmet is in commensurate condition and has a folded up newspaper tucked between the leather and the shell ostensibly used as a size adjustment. The helmet was issued to at least two different soldiers whose names are found inside. One of them penned in his Feldpost number '18529' which was assigned to the 2nd Kompanie Krankentransport abteilung 551 (2nd ambulance company, medical transport unit 551) which was mobilized on January 1st, 1940 just in time for the "Sitzkrieg" which led up to the invasion of western Europe in the spring of that year. This helmet knocks every other medic helmet out of the ring; It's an M35; It is unit identified; It has the best red cross application pattern; It is in striking condition (inside and outside) further; it is a huge shell size 68, liner size 60, most importantly, I have no problem issuing my 100% lifetime guarantee of complete authenticity. There is literally nothing else you can ask for in a medic helmet! $6500 ON HOLD


I put Medic helmets in the same class as camos. This helmet had its decals removed prior to the white paint application; in other words, a low dollar helmet. Near 100% of medic paint remaining is another red flag.

EDIT: Zoom shots show paint popped off and hack marks down to factory paint. Some type of textured material was placed against this one while still tacky. I have seen this before on questionable camos and could indicate a common creator.

 

[nirvana]

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=886998

SS medic helmet from a "VFW" sale.