Questionable Camos

[mauser99]

Getting lazy? I suppose that's one way to put it. A $500 helmet selling for $12,500 is what; a 2500% markup ? I know prices have been rising, but WTH ?

Well, sell a 12k helmet with a life time Warr.. If it never comes back that's a good thing. Why be so picky ??? Bill Shea isn't perfect . No one is.

One thing about Shea is when a Sham-pain-ruin was posted on WAF and it was with a Shea COA and was outed the seller went back to him and he was refunded his money.. Not the same can be said for K.H.

I think digging in his heels is the only option he has till the whole thing blows over..

 

[M45]

Well, sell a 12k helmet with a life time Warr.. If it never comes back that's a good thing. Why be so picky ??? Bill Shea isn't perfect . No one is.

One thing about Shea is when a Sham-pain-ruin was posted on WAF and it was with a Shea COA and was outed the seller went back to him and he was refunded his money.. Not the same can be said for K.H.

I think digging in his heels is the only option he has till the whole thing blows over..

A lifetime warranty ? Whose lifetime; mine, the seller's, the company's ? There are probably a dozen different reasons for a 'lifetime warranty' to not be honored.

Why be so picky ? Militaria is a dealer's business. It's their business to know real from fake. How many helmets do you think dealers come across in their lifetimes ? Tens of thousands no doubt. You think they would start to get a pretty good feel for what originals look like, just like many collectors do. That wire/Normandy is absolutely horrid IMO, not even a chance. But I think it gets hyped-up with previous ownership histories. Since so-and-so once owned it, and they are experts, it must be good. Kind of the lazy collector's way to authenticate.

 

[mcorioles]

If you want to see a good wire the FULL basket on RD is legit in my opinion.

As regards to helmets DougB has owned I bought one from RD that was a Luft 3 color deemed fake.

The lesson learned just because a respected collector owns it doesn't make it fool proof.

P.S Bill accepted the return no problems.

 

[mauser99]

A lifetime warranty ? Whose lifetime; mine, the seller's, the company's ? There are probably a dozen different reasons for a 'lifetime warranty' to not be honored.

Why be so picky ? Militaria is a dealer's business. It's their business to know real from fake. How many helmets do you think dealers come across in their lifetimes ? Tens of thousands no doubt. You think they would start to get a pretty good feel for what originals look like, just like many collectors do. That wire/Normandy is absolutely horrid IMO, not even a chance. But I think it gets hyped-up with previous ownership histories. Since so-and-so once owned it, and they are experts, it must be good. Kind of the lazy collector's way to authenticate.

They don't seem to care.. Shea's site over the last couple years has been littered with bad camos. Most were discussed and he was contacted and they were taken down. My point is where do they go ??? Im sure they aren't crushed. Im sure they end up somewhere. Many at random auction or traded off ?
They get recycled for sure. Offering a lifetime warranty eases peoples worry. So its real only based on the warranty and COA not based off the item itself.

 

[DaveDavis]

Life Time Warranty = I promise I wont cum in your mouth plus I'll respect you in the morning.....

 

[Frank F.]

They don't seem to care.. Shea's site over the last couple years has been littered with bad camos. Most were discussed and he was contacted and they were taken down. My point is where do they go ??? Im sure they aren't crushed. Im sure they end up somewhere. Many an random auction or traded off ?
They get recycled for sure. Offering a lifetime warranty eases peoples worry. So its real only based on the warranty and COA not based off the item itself.

I just had the most unpleasant exchange with Shea than I had with any other dealer, ever.

Offered him $650.00 for a Puma fighting knife he's asking $1095.00 for.

His reply:

ROGER THAT!
If they terminate my food stamps, I'll let ya know.

That dude is a dick and I would not trust him further than I can spit!

F.

 

[M45]

NEW! Item 835 M42 Tan camouflage helmet

http://www.germanhelmetsinc.com/helmetssale.htm

This is an Hkp62 M42 helmet which was produced as a no-decal. It has been painted over in a tannish color paint applied by brush to the exterior as well as the inside skirt covering up to the liner frame. Some paint has gotten onto the frame in a couple of spots. I have always been a big fn of helmets which have been field repainted in such a manner. The helmet was issued too late in the war to be considered a DAK helmet. Indeed it is likely that it was used in Northwest Europe rather than Italy/Sicily. The paint has survived quite well and this one displays excellently. $2250.00



I am flabbergasted that such a helmet is being offered for sale as authentic. No combat wear whatsoever. Another 'time machine' piece that passed into today from the past, but apparently acquired some rim wear from the 'portal'.

I agree that the bit of paint on the rim is a nice touch. It's nice to see camo on liner bands, chinstraps, bales and such as well as a fingerprint or two. It's like a cherry on top of a cake.



Frank, some dealers do not react well when customers make offers. They apparently feel that the prices they have set are fair and should not be questioned and may even become annoyed with offers.

Other dealers have no problems with offers. Either way, I would not take it personally.

 

[iron bender]

http://www.germanhelmetsinc.com/helmetssale.htm

This is an Hkp62 M42 helmet which was produced as a no-decal. It has been painted over in a tannish color paint applied by brush to the exterior as well as the inside skirt covering up to the liner frame. Some paint has gotten onto the frame in a couple of spots. I have always been a big fn of helmets which have been field repainted in such a manner. The helmet was issued too late in the war to be considered a DAK helmet. Indeed it is likely that it was used in Northwest Europe rather than Italy/Sicily. The paint has survived quite well and this one displays excellently. $2250.00

I am flabbergasted that such a helmet is being offered for sale as authentic. No combat wear whatsoever. Another 'time machine' piece that passed into today from the past, but apparently acquired some rim wear from the 'portal'.

Go to the helmet at the bottom of this page. Any chance the above helmets is one of these?

http://www.svmilitaria.com/GermanWWIIHelmets.htm

 

[Frank F.]

http://www.germanhelmetsinc.com/helmetssale.htm

Frank, some dealers do not react well when customers make offers. They apparently feel that the prices they have set are fair and should not be questioned and may even become annoyed with offers.

Other dealers have no problems with offers. Either way, I would not take it personally.

I do take a snide remark like this from a dealer personally. It does tell me not to trust him and not to go anywhere near his wares.

There are a thousand ways to deal professionally with an offer, any offer, and that is not one of them.

F.

 

[M45]

Go to the helmet at the bottom of this page. Any chance the above helmets is one of these?

http://www.svmilitaria.com/GermanWWIIHelmets.htm

]


IMO no. That SVM helmet I think is one of those postwar CZECH spray-tan reworks for the Egyptian contract that fell through (a theory).

 

[M45]

Dak pink

http://www.italianwarfront.com/?page_id=9

German WWII M-35 “pink” Afrika Korps camo painted helmet. Shell SE-64 and liner dated 1939 size 57. Helmet has a name painted on the rear skirt and could be a good research project. This one is absolutely untouched complete with his original liner & chinstrap. DAK helmets are always the collectors favorite and top example are always a great investment. $4,250


This one looks like it had something placed against the paint while it was still tacky, taking some of the paint with it - the same type of "wear" throughout. They neglected the back side though. The closeup shot shows pristine conditioned material with no believable combat wear. What looks to be fresh red rust on the rim, an indication that it was set out in the elements to "age".

 

[M45]

They don't seem to care.. Shea's site over the last couple years has been littered with bad camos. Most were discussed and he was contacted and they were taken down. My point is where do they go ??? Im sure they aren't crushed. Im sure they end up somewhere. Many at random auction or traded off ?
They get recycled for sure. Offering a lifetime warranty eases peoples worry. So its real only based on the warranty and COA not based off the item itself.

I've seen camos that did not sell that disappear for awhile. Then, months later, the helmet may re-emerge with a higher price.

 

[M45]

NEW! Item 838 M35 Camouflage helmet

http://www.germanhelmetsinc.com/helmetssale.htm

This helmet originally left the factory as a double decal army helmet. It was subsequently re-furbished sometime after 1940 by the helmet being dismantled and repainted with textured paint inside and outside. A fresh liner was installed; being a post-1940 steel framed type. I cannot tell is any service branch insignia was added. The helmet was later covered over by brush-applied paint in the standard vehicle colors tan/green/brown. The colors were fairly blended together creating a subtle pattern. 95% of which remains intact. The liner and strap show very moderate wear and are very "balanced" in condition; comparing to the helmet exterior. The chinstrap is a pigskin example which has no maker mark that I can see but I have found that the majority of pigskin chinstraps seem to have been made by Wilhelm Ellers of Bielefield. ON HOLD



Bright, new appearing paint (no age/little wear), near 100% of coverage, some chips where paint has been popped off - quite a work of art.

Since camos are 'subjective', they are the easiest to fake; only 1 person has to be convinced - the prospective buyer.

 

[Rev.Mike]

Looks like it was finger-painted at Miss Gruber's kindergarten fur jungevolk.

 

[Spoof]

Camo helmet in WAF classifieds

Hello,

Up for sale from my collection is this Luftwaffe M40 dual tone tans and greens possibly Italian front combat helmet. The Luftwaffe decal is ghosting through the paint. The helmet shell is size 66 with leather size 58, complete with nice chin strap. All steel bans, pins and washers are tight. Liner has some chafing towards rear, liner has owner's initials and name inked into leather liner. Nice sprayed paint of tans and greens coverage 90% with scrapes and some chipping to camo finish revealing the base paint coat. Several photos of both outdoor and inside of helmet. Purchased originally from Michael Davis of the Virtual Grenadier. Top shelf example would consider partial trade of Army SD helmet with soldier's name painted on flange towards this helmet. Asking $2,400 shipping and PayPal fees extra.

This helmet should not have a Luftwaffe decal as a rear stamped Quist. Therefore, camo is bad.

 

[Hambone]

Hello,

Up for sale from my collection is this Luftwaffe M40 dual tone tans and greens possibly Italian front combat helmet. The Luftwaffe decal is ghosting through the paint. The helmet shell is size 66 with leather size 58, complete with nice chin strap. All steel bans, pins and washers are tight. Liner has some chafing towards rear, liner has owner's initials and name inked into leather liner. Nice sprayed paint of tans and greens coverage 90% with scrapes and some chipping to camo finish revealing the base paint coat. Several photos of both outdoor and inside of helmet. Purchased originally from Michael Davis of the Virtual Grenadier. Top shelf example would consider partial trade of Army SD helmet with soldier's name painted on flange towards this helmet. Asking $2,400 shipping and PayPal fees extra.

This helmet should not have a Luftwaffe decal as a rear stamped Quist. Therefore, camo is bad.

That one scares me. I liked it at first view.

 

[M45]

This helmet should not have a Luftwaffe decal as a rear stamped Quist. Therefore, camo is bad.[/I]

I have heard this a lot on forums, and while generally true it is not true in absolutely every case. It is possible to have some of the last decaled helmets have a rear marked (RM) Q stamp. I believe the side marked to rear marked transition had been started just prior to the decal drop on 28 August 1943.

M40 Q64 DN301 SD SS ZSH 41STRAP Q-SS SM/RM SAME LOT#
M40 Q64 DN327 SD LUFT ZSH RTBG ET/LUFT RM
M40 Q64 DN340 SD HEER BF ZSH RTGG RM
M40 Q64 DN343 SD HEER BF ZSH RTGG RM
M40 Q64 DN345 SD HEER BF ZSH RM RTGG (Q VARIANT DECAL) Ken N. p.333
M40 Q64 DN348 SD HEER BF ZSH 43STRAP/RBSTRAP RTGG RM
M40 Q64 DN350 SD HEER BF ZSH RTGG RM
M40 Q64 DN351 ND RTGG ZPG SM (POST 28AUG43 COMPLETION)
M40 Q64 DN351 DD POLI BD ZSH RM RTGG TO GREEN REISSUE
M40 Q62 DN352 DD POLI BD ZPG RM RTGG



It looks like a DN535, well into no decal territory. Also, it looks like green gray paint, Luft should be blue gray.

How much are they asking ??

 

[M45]

That one scares me. I liked it at first view.

A very good point, Hambone. Fake camos are getting to the point of being unable to be properly identified as such by experienced collectors. Despite our years of previous experience, our camo authentication abilities are becoming insufficient. In this case, lot# research in addition to factory paint color aided in identifying this one as a modern work of art.

Yes Hambone, be afraid - be very afraid.

 

[M45]

The above camo looks like it utilized a rare late war dark green finish helmet, darker than the typical green-gray. These are only rarely seen, so a double

M40 Q66 DN535 ND RTGG ZSH RM STRAP-ftb 12-43INK GREEN-GRAY
M40 Q66 DN535 ND SLATE ZSH RM STRAP-RFNr.0/0494/0008 C59N44-INK SLATE-GRAY
M40 Q66 DN535 ND LUFT ZPG RM RTBG BLUE-GRAY
M40 Q66 DN535 ND DARK-GREEN ZSH RM
M40 Q66 DN535 BEADED ND RM

A comparison of the dark green on the right with the more common finish on the left.

 

[M45]

ET M35 SD Medic

ET M35 SD Medic

An interesting medic helmet on GHW2. It has some features not normally seen on most medic helmets such as; a wide variety of wear, faded red cross and white body, and crown heavily worn to bare metal patina.

Compare last photo of helmet and camo cover also on GHW2; bright white body, bright red cross, near 100% coverage as most red cross helmets appear today.