Questionable Camos

[Hambone]

Peter, I remember back when I set up at the shows a little old man walking around with a cigar box full of "medals I brought home from the ETO" that he was selling. He said he personally took them off of dead German soldiers and POWs. They were made of lead.

 

[mauser99]

nez's lid.

I have been reading this and building my thoughts on the whole scenario.

1] From the looks of things it was originally sold on IWF web site in 2013. According to Giorgio in some of his posts is he's a helmet collector 1st. and a dealer second.

2] So, if it were sold by G in 2013 why has it returned ? A number of possibilities could be brought to light and I'm sure we can think some up ourselves.

3] If you bought this helmet would you have returned it for no reason ?? There could have been a legit reason.

4] If G is a helmet collector 1st why would a collector sell if found a one of a kind camo with direct vet provenance ? If I came into it I'm sure it would be the center piece of my collection never to be sold. Maybe to G this is a second or third tier lid ? I have seen photos of his collection and he does have some nice stuff. Nothing as stunning as this example if real.

5] To be honest faking the provenance and photo is probably easier than faking the helmet itself.

6] I'm not saying any of it is the truth or the lid is bad but, this is the world we live in now when it comes to this stuff.

7] Not ever having it in hand I really cant comment any further. Nez has some really nice helmets and has a great collection and I assume is comfortable with the helmet. That's where it has to end for me. The rest is just all endless speculation..

 

[Peter U]

Mauser99, your #4 says it all.


A top shelve piece that is sold so often. It always makes me wonder, of course no real proof but it doesn't give me good vibes either.
For example the helmet from my avatar, only came in to my collection because the previous owner passed away; and this is a sad fact with a lot of top pieces in any field of collecting, very often first someone needs to die before they change collection.
Not so with exotic camo helmets, they are sold twice in a year and the new owner is always very happy with them, usually for less then a year because then it is sold to some other collector that can be extremely happy with his vet provenance super piece.

 

[Nzef1940]

Mauser99.

I like your last sentence 'the rest is just endless speculation' and I will add 'ongoing conspiracy theories'

Over and out.

 

[nirvana]

I'm not sure why it is, but helmets do seem to change hands a lot, especially exotic ones. That M-2 camo turd on the USMF has had like 4-5 owners in the past decade, at least. A named paratrooper helmet that saw action at Normandy AND the Bulge? Who the (I have a small penis) sells that? I've got a few items, a guidon and a pistol, that will be with me when I die. My wife will sell them cheap, because she doesn't know any better, but they are once in a lifetime finds. They are not posted online, and they aren't for sale. But this stuff is sold all the time. Why?

 

[Nzef1940]

What camo turd ?

 

[nirvana]

http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread.php?28063-US-M2-Humped-Camo-Helmet-Big-Controversy


I should've been more clear, sorry. The US M-2 camo turd that is currently being torn apart on the USMF. Didn't mean to sound like I was attacking you, there are currently two active camo helmet threads here.

 

[mauser99]

latvian fake wire

this is the typical Latvian fake that shows up on ebay. These guys had a field day early on and Im sure made a killing.
With forums and knowledge business has slowed down a bit Im sure.

Wire is correct but there is plenty of "correct" euro wire in Europe so be very careful. Camo job looks believable as well.

Just a peak of whats out there...

The interior is where it falls apart. Typical crumpled up looking fake liner. If this had an orig. tattered liner guys would line up to buy this one IMHO

 

[Niblet]

Camo is ultimately a subjective thing. Either you like a helmet, or you don't. You voted with your dollars, I did not, and that's okay. Its important that I say this: When I don't like a helmet, I don't mean it as a personal attack on the owner, and I hope it isn't taken as such. If you are happy with the helmet, then that is what matters. I'm just a random internet dude with my own opinion, and there is nothing wrong with our thoughts differing.
respectfully,
Nirvana

Too bad the mods over at GHW2 dont believe in what you are saying,,,( I wholeheartedly agree)
Just dont log onto GHW2 and discuss your opinions and you'll do fine......
it seems the helmets of a certain member are off limits for discussion,,only thumbs up will be given!

 

[Niblet]

I'm not sure why it is, but helmets do seem to change hands a lot, especially exotic ones. That M-2 camo turd on the USMF has had like 4-5 owners in the past decade, at least. A named paratrooper helmet that saw action at Normandy AND the Bulge? Who the (I have a small penis) sells that? I've got a few items, a guidon and a pistol, that will be with me when I die. My wife will sell them cheap, because she doesn't know any better, but they are once in a lifetime finds. They are not posted online, and they aren't for sale. But this stuff is sold all the time. Why?

Well theres a certain member at GHW2 that is building himself a great deal of wealth by posting nice pics and being everyones buddy
he's no dummy,,when he expires,,his stuff will be gold!

 

[Hambone]

I've provided a number of "contrary" opinions at GHW2 on helmets that the majority liked and not been punished for it. In many instances, treated civilly by the person whose helmet I was giving a less than a positive opinion.

 

[mauser99]

newest fake lid on WAF

this was just posted and ousted as a fake. A WAF member no less who has access to the site and could have easily posted it before he bought it.

Why not post before you buy ? Why get wrangled into making a bad choice. This was bought out of an old collection.

Lots of bad lids in old collections.... I recently looked at one a second time and the two luft camos he owned were fakes...

 

[capt14k]

I'm not sure why it is, but helmets do seem to change hands a lot, especially exotic ones. That M-2 camo turd on the USMF has had like 4-5 owners in the past decade, at least. A named paratrooper helmet that saw action at Normandy AND the Bulge? Who the (I have a small penis) sells that? I've got a few items, a guidon and a pistol, that will be with me when I die. My wife will sell them cheap, because she doesn't know any better, but they are once in a lifetime finds. They are not posted online, and they aren't for sale. But this stuff is sold all the time. Why?

Because they are fake and the previous owners know they are. Move the helmet quick amongst the few in the know then some poor sap gets stuck with it. It takes co-conspirators to pull the long con. Amazing that the mystery 5th owner of the Shelton M2 has not been revealed.

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[mauser99]

thread starting Uber camo and why I dont like it.

This was one of the camo's at the beginning of this thread and why I don't like it..

Typically this type of lid scares me and it should scare most. I wouldn't buy one unless bought from the vet himself presented with a photo of the vet holding it during the war. I have only seen one such lid and Barry Smith owns it.

This is what I look @ and for when judging such things. Look at the wear points and how the look "made" not that they occurred naturally.

Anyone who has done any body work knows what I mean and how a feather edge is produced. All I mean all the wear points show the same consistent rubbing and feather edging a huge red flag should be waved to anyone seeing this. IMHO.

I have outlined in red the wear points as examples. ALSO; on the rear shot I outlined a spot where the patina if it was applied was tested or cleaned away in one spot. I picked up on this also when I was studying it .

 

[capt14k]

I am less than a novice but that wear does look the same.

Since it seems contrived wear is a big flag why don't forgers simply play soccer with the helmet on a stone driveway?

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[mauser99]

ANother scary luft camo

these photos were sent to me by another member from an auction. At first I was very excited over seeing this trapezoid luft camo
that looked legit. I still feel the overlying camo could be. But, further study showed the decal was bad.

My thoughts were maybe the orig decal was scraped off or was so damaged it was replaced to up it's curb appeal ??

It was best to leave it be..

 

[mauser99]

I am less than a novice but that wear does look the same.

Since it seems contrived wear is a big flag why don't forgers simply play soccer with the helmet on a stone driveway?

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they are doing that and more........ This is just one example of many. I only have so much time to study and post examples.

 

[capt14k]

they are doing that and more........ This is just one example of many. I only have so much time to study and post examples.

So if that same helmet had random wear how would you tell it is fake?

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[mauser99]

So if that same helmet had random wear how would you tell it is fake?

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I will state myself; I'm not saying its fake as I wont be one of those guys. I'm pointing out red flags for me for helmets to avoid and why.

The last three helmets I posted 2 are decaled luft lids with fake decals with believable camo's on top.

 

[Niblet]

I've provided a number of "contrary" opinions at GHW2 on helmets that the majority liked and not been punished for it. In many instances, treated civilly by the person whose helmet I was giving a less than a positive opinion.

Well the same cannot be said of me,,,I guess it depends on whose helmets you are giving your opinions on?