Questionable Camos

[mauser99]

Here's a selection of the Crap that's circulating on Gun Broker.. There seems to be two or three sellers from NY who post the most stuff..
Either form their collection and they think its real or have been told its real by the dealers who spoon fed them this crap or just true turd peddlers looking for a fool..??? One has a Hick's sham-wow doosie they got stuck with..

 

[Hambone]

Well at least they are largely confined to epay and Gunbonker. I find that most people who would drop more than a grand on a "camo" helmet at least have some sense and the capability of sight, thus the fraud isn't as bad as the "wow" "one looker" "exotic freshies" mongered to forum pod people (those who don't know what they don't know and rely upon the forum exspurts, the FOS (Friends Of Seller) for $2500+.

 

[mauser99]

Depending on how much time you want to spend or waste depending on how you look at it there are many times this amount on dealer sites all over the web. An uneducated buyer is a sellers best friend. A guy who never posts anything or never shows anything to anyone is a dealers best friend..There have been large collections surface who have been "spoon fed" by big name guys any to find out most of the stuff is humped up crap. Its a real shame...

 

[Hambone]

I know of some of those guys. Usually more money than sense, spending beyond their means for such things, and they jump from fixation to fixation, i.e., they collect Civil War, then SS, then "muscle cars," then slot machines, then camo helmets, etc. etc. They never acquire sufficient knowledge in any one area, rely upon dealers/sellers and the FODs (Friends Of Dealer) and FOS to "guide" them for purchases. They invariably get burned much in each area, get disenchanted, and move on, losing significant amounts of money. If you catch these collections early, there are usually some good pieces to buy (blind hog finds acorns metaphor), but most is wankered, problematic, or outright humped garbage. The ironic thing about some of these guys is they ask for your advice, but become irritated when it is not what they want to hear, instead militantly believing the seller's sales pitch over your detached, objective opinion. This isn't me sardonically recollecting one person in particular, but recollecting more than several.

 

[mcorioles]

Here is another fake where someone was taken for $2750. Keep your eyes open. It will pop up somewhere.

The liner is a COMPLETE fake.

I have handled these liners and they are not original. They have a weird smell and almost plastic feel to them. Also notice the weird burns on the fold over where the liner ring is. Bad stuff people.

Now THIS ^^^^^is a a REX fake Camo.Study well,this is his and has tell tale signs.

 

[Frank F.]

Now THIS ^^^^^is a a REX fake Camo.Study well,this is his and has tell tale signs.

Yup! It's been discussed here: http://www.ghw2.com/topic/50410-m40-normandy-camo-for-review/

F.

 

[mdarnell19]

Now THIS ^^^^^is a a REX fake Camo.Study well,this is his and has tell tale signs.

??? If you read the thread that Frank just posted, Rex (username Ruffin) explains in post #95 that this is not one of his helmet.

 

[mauser99]

Interesting thread and update on this camo. When I saw the ebay photos I leaned twords liking the camo.
I knew I had seen that helmet before but, couldn't remember where.

See the GHW thread and reading from end to end I clearly didn't like it then after see all the marco shots of the shell..
That's why its soooooooo Important to have these things in hand and study them.

This is a A+1 example of the mine field of german camos.. I still feel and will stand behind my statements of odd damage and breaks in paint as helmets being tossed into large piles and being impacted by others..

 

[Hambone]

This is a A+1 example of the mine field of german camos.. I still feel and will stand behind my statements of odd damage and breaks in paint as helmets being tossed into large piles and being impacted by others..

German combat helmets were invariably worn in the field, knocked about, left on the ground, tossed into piles (or not), handled, bounced around and handled by the GIs who captured them, some like mine handled and mailed from Europe to Washington state simply with a label on the helmet, no box. Then, they were tossed into garages, closets, handled, played with by kids, etc. There are numerous variations and permutations on wear and tear from the point they were issued to the point we ended up with them.

The thing that I look for is does the wear look like it occurred all at once over the balance of the helmet, i.e., contrived wear (humping) or is it the gradual and random wear one would see on a helmet in used for a couple years, whether hard combat field use, or simply handling over the last 70+ years, or little use and storage in a closet or attic?

These two helmets were camo'd together, obviously, and obviously used by members of the same unit. Compare the wear. These are originals, 100%.

http://www.ghw2.com/topic/54589-m40-luft-normandy-camos-bet-your-life-original/

Compare the wear on both.

 

[mcorioles]

??? If you read the thread that Frank just posted, Rex (username Ruffin) explains in post #95 that this is not one of his helmet.

Sorry been busy lately.I should have been more specific. Meant the examples posted by Rob in the thread.

 

[mauser99]

There was never really any conclusion in that discussion and dissection of that helmet IMHO. One of the more important one's of the last two years. I was hoping they would pin that thread so it doesn't get buried again but the occasional bump will keep it current. The owner waited a year to dump it maybe wanting to cool down and that may have helped ? He got 2700.00 for it after paying over 3k I think ? After ebay is through far less. The liner was explained quite well from a man who tanned hides for a living and the internals of the liner were 100% correct. Also showing other liners with wrinkles. This for me this was a great example of a "grey area" camo where some liked it and others didn't and there could be NO 100% definitive answer either way...
A camo's tale for sure....

 

[Nzef1940]

Fake? I think not...

From page 1 of this thread.

NS64 M35 A SAWDUST CAMO on Italianwarfront.

http://www.italianwarfront.com/?page_id=9


THE AD:
German war world two sawdust 3 color M35 camouflage helmet with vet provenance and pictures.
Model 1935 most likely Wehrmacht, maker N.S. 64 with liner band dated 1939 size 64/57.
The lot # was covered with camo paint probably to cover a previous owner name.
All pins and washers are unmolested.
I have the vet name and will give that only to the buyer.
He was in Africa, Sicily and Italy and was awarded the Bronze Star, in the letter tells my friend whom he sold the helmet that this was picked up in Mignano ( Italy ) next to the Rapido river.
He also wrote a book ( I have 1 copy ) about his wartime experience as a combat MP.

 

[Peter U]

I hope they at least bought a beer for that veteran to pose with that helmet.

 

[Nzef1940]

And your a moderator...

 

[nirvana]

There has never been a fake helmet that came from a vet?


Right. Check out this gem.

http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/steel-helmets/german-helmet-question-22660/

 

[Warrior1354]

Just becasue you meant a guy that said he brought it back doesn't make it always true. I personally held bring-back items that were complete fakes that were bought in the late 50s and early 60s most likely. Believe it or not their were fake SA daggers coming out of Spain in 1946.

It was just last year a rifle was brought too me that was a veteran bring-back at the Indy show. The gentleman believed his dad brought it back from the war. I had too tell if the bad news that his K98k was a Russian capture that was import marked on the barrel as a century import.

If you ever come across an item that your interested in. Look whats in front you and the item itself and keep the blinders off.

 

[Nzef1940]

Keep the blinders off...

Now for the analysis:

1) Veteran details where supplied in 2013, veteran was alive and had just authored a book on his experiences in Italy as a combat MP.

2)Detailed letter from vet re helmets.

3) a camo helmet that has seen little use and falls outside of textbook, however look closely at the images.
Paint is old.

4)Paint as available in the field was used on helmets, in this case Italy. Interesting to note one of the flags pictured was taken from an Italian factory.

5)the helmet was slammed on first page with zero analysis.

Anyway no surprises...

 

[capt14k]

Just because a vet is posed with the helmet today means nothing. They got the guy to take a pic with a helmet big deal.

Oh you say the vet said he brought it back from WWII. No one over the age of 70 lies? So it must be true. Any chance the vet was a collector or knew the value?

Show me a pic in Germany with a 1945 newspaper, helmet, and vet where you can read his name on his uniform and then show a pic today of same guy with his driver's license and the same helmet then it may mean something.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

 

[nirvana]

For those that aren't members of the relics forum, this is the "documented bring back" helmet that I mentioned above. The photo is in a newspaper interview, and he is showing it off as a trophy. It's a 1950s west German helmet painted baby blue with a shite decal.

Nzef1940: if this guy wrote a letter to go with a copy of the newspaper article, does the helmet become legit? Does the letter remove all of your questions? I mean, he wouldn't lie about the helmet, would he? He wouldn't forget where he got it from, right?

No. No amount of fluff makes a fake piece real. Is that camo you are referencing good? I don't like it, and the letter changes nothing to me. Sorry.

 

[Nzef1940]

Your bagging a helmet with no analysis and also disrespectful to an honest vet.

This thread is a joke, stick to K98's.