Questionable Camos

[capt14k]

As I said before none of this is really worth while unless you get out and see the world and go to shows and meet other collectors and examine items in the flesh.

Sitting behind the key board and judging is not really all its cracked up to be.... No different that sitting watching porn and never getting you D*ck wet. Not much fun really....

Cant stress enough the importance of getting out and see the real deal..... I had a great weekend didn't go online for 4 days..

I agree in hand is needed to fully learn. There are always variations. I've bought a lot of items just to learn about them. Mainly Finnish Bayonets. What I quickly learned is much that is written and repeated all came from the same source and either the source was wrong or the interpretation was wrong.

I plan on going to the next Forks show. It's less than 2 hrs drive for me. I will hit you up before the show.

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[Niblet]

Quote Originally Posted by mauser99 View Post
As I said before none of this is really worth while unless you get out and see the world and go to shows and meet other collectors and examine items in the flesh.

Sitting behind the key board and judging is not really all its cracked up to be.... No different that sitting watching porn and never getting you D*ck wet. Not much fun really....

Cant stress enough the importance of getting out and see the real deal..... I had a great weekend didn't go online for 4 days..

problem is alot of dealers/collectors do not have many morals and can lead you down the wrong path as quickly as any publication
guys who I thought were collecting friends turned out to be characters who just wanted me to buy stuff from them,,then when I stopped buying from them, guess what,,,no more "freind",,,,and actually started to badmouth me,,,

 

[M45]

Another GHW2 turtle, although this one looks great, just a replaced liner.

Exotic camos that used to be so exceedingly rare back in the day, today it seems like collectors now have one of each. How about those threads entitled, "Post your turtle camos. Post your painted snow camos. Post your medic helmets. Post your DAK tan helmets. Post your geometrics. Post your Normandies." etc...

One of the last big Great Western Gun shows I went to in the late 90s I recall there being ONE original Afrika tan helmet for sale. Just a plain tan ND, nothing fancy, from French Algeria if I recall. This show was 8 miles of tables mind you. Most of the really nice camos had about dried up by then. Then in the 2000s there is this flood of exotic camos, all kinds in great condition. Camos from the US, camos from Western Europe, camos from Eastern Europe, camos from Russia, the Ukraine, Czech, Latvia.....

 

[Hambone]

problem is alot of dealers/collectors do not have many morals and can lead you down the wrong path as quickly as any publication
guys who I thought were collecting friends turned out to be characters who just wanted me to buy stuff from them,,then when I stopped buying from them, guess what,,,no more "freind",,,,and actually started to badmouth me,,,

I would say that there are some dealers/collectors who are lacking in integrity at times. They are not the majority. However, that is the case in any hobby, profession, etc., where people sell out their integrity and honor for money and/or power (ego). I would say that the militaria / military firearm collecting hobbies FAR AND AWAY have more excellent people with more integrity than any other hobby or business. I'm in the profession of sorting out people who lack integrity so I do know a little about the topic.

As for this thread: We believe in openness and transparency, i.e., no censorship. However, I also believe that if you have a differing opinion about a helmet, DISCUSS IT AT THAT SITE IN A POLITE MANNER. It can be done. I've done it. In fact, I've been involved in significantly detailed discussions concerning camos I did not particularly like and my opinions were not only allowed, but the persons who owned the subject helmets under critique publicly thanked me for my opinions. We can disagree without personal attacks. This is a K98k/German weapons site with a German Militaria forum on the side. The best place for discussing GHW2 helmets is at GHW2.

 

[Niblet]

Yes,,too bad GHW2 policies do not encourage open discussion
So are you saying that ANY helmet that is or has been discussed at GHW2 is not allowed to be discussed here?
or just helmets from certain collectors?

 

[mauser99]

Quote Originally Posted by mauser99 View Post
As I said before none of this is really worth while unless you get out and see the world and go to shows and meet other collectors and examine items in the flesh.

Sitting behind the key board and judging is not really all its cracked up to be.... No different that sitting watching porn and never getting you D*ck wet. Not much fun really....

Cant stress enough the importance of getting out and see the real deal..... I had a great weekend didn't go online for 4 days..

problem is alot of dealers/collectors do not have many morals and can lead you down the wrong path as quickly as any publication
guys who I thought were collecting friends turned out to be characters who just wanted me to buy stuff from them,,then when I stopped buying from them, guess what,,,no more "freind",,,,and actually started to badmouth me,,,

I get the whole thing..... there is a dealer at the show who has a 1/2 dozen poor humped up camos.. You cant talk to him its not worth the time. Do you think he's going to throw them in the dumpster ???? I wanted to look at one helmet he had that was new and overpainted Heer m35. " I said can I see the army helmet and after he grabbed the wrong one three different times I said THAT ONE... He said "Oh, that's a navy" Do you really thinK I spent 1/2 hr. arguing with the man over what it was I just handed it back and said thanks"... These old dealers just don't get it they will let the stuff sit till it sells.. All you get is "Ive been doing this for 40 years what the heck do you know"

I know the feeling .... I don't get frustrated I know who to avoid.. You learn very fast.

 

[Hambone]

Yes,,too bad GHW2 policies do not encourage open discussion
So are you saying that ANY helmet that is or has been discussed at GHW2 is not allowed to be discussed here?
or just helmets from certain collectors?

I'm saying exercise some civility, restraint, and common sense. I don't know the history of why you were banned there and at WAF. I was banned at WAF over a decade ago, and given by whom (megalomaniacal nitwits) and why, I remain flattered by it. How would we like it if they started a "Humped up K98ks" thread over at GHW2 and started posting the rifles we vetted in the pic sticky thread and bashed them? The place to discuss GHW2 helmets is at GHW2. I promise I can go there and give a negative critique of a helmet there, explain the basis for my opinion, and my posts won't be deleted. The courtesies and freedoms here are not for abuse.

 

[mcorioles]

Another GHW2 turtle, although this one looks great, just a replaced liner.

Exotic camos that used to be so exceedingly rare back in the day, today it seems like collectors now have one of each. How about those threads entitled, "Post your turtle camos. Post your painted snow camos. Post your medic helmets. Post your DAK tan helmets. Post your geometrics. Post your Normandies." etc...

One of the last big Great Western Gun shows I went to in the late 90s I recall there being ONE original Afrika tan helmet for sale. Just a plain tan ND, nothing fancy, from French Algeria if I recall. This show was 8 miles of tables mind you. Most of the really nice camos had about dried up by then. Then in the 2000s there is this flood of exotic camos, all kinds in great condition. Camos from the US, camos from Western Europe, camos from Eastern Europe, camos from Russia, the Ukraine, Czech, Latvia.....

Again.......


The proliferation of the INTERNET answers your questions.



You keep referring to "back in the day"," in the late 90's"........

No internet.

The internet has allowed people ALL OVER THE WORLD to communicate.


YOU would have NO idea " back in the day" or " the late 90's how many "exotic" camos there are out there.

You just keep referring to your little window in time to justify your opinion.



And IMO as a whole these "exotic camos" still seem rare.

Take a look at who owns these,they come from all over the World,there are literally only a few dozen at most of any particular exotic camos painted in similar schemes.

 

[mauser99]

Yes,,too bad GHW2 policies do not encourage open discussion
So are you saying that ANY helmet that is or has been discussed at GHW2 is not allowed to be discussed here?
or just helmets from certain collectors?

It's not something that should be done. It can be done and has been done. There was an uproar over there when they heard what was going on over here. That's why a few started posting here and it got nasty.

If that hadn't been done there would be NO issue as far as I can see. Any negative things said about M45 there are deleted and warnings sent.

It was said if you have a beef bring it to the source... As it should be. M45 has an axe to grind with the forum going way back IMHO and the old site owners aren't even involved with that forum any longer.. It has changed hands 3 times since 09.

 

[mauser99]

Again.......


The proliferation of the INTERNET answers your questions.



You keep referring to "back in the day"," in the late 90's"........

No internet.

The internet has allowed people ALL OVER THE WORLD to communicate.


YOU would have NO idea " back in the day" or " the late 90's how many "exotic" camos there are out there.

You just keep referring to your little window in time to justify your opinion.



And IMO as a whole these "exotic camos" still seem rare.

Take a look at who owns these,they come from all over the World,there are literally only a few dozen at most of any particular exotic camos painted in similar schemes.

Plus if you don't show up to a show on set-up day you will see NOTHING !!!! of any quality its already gone !!!! Don't use that as a gauge please..

Back in the 90's I scoured shows for matching k98's and never found a one that was worth a shite... Why ???? why are there so many posted on forums now ????? I never saw any back then .... They must all be fake.... See how silly that sounds.

 

[Niblet]

I'm saying exercise some civility, restraint, and common sense. I don't know the history of why you were banned there and at WAF. I was banned at WAF over a decade ago, and given by whom (megalomaniacal nitwits) and why, I remain flattered by it. How would we like it if they started a "Humped up K98ks" thread over at GHW2 and started posting the rifles we vetted in the pic sticky thread and bashed them? The place to discuss GHW2 helmets is at GHW2. I promise I can go there and give a negative critique of a helmet there, explain the basis for my opinion, and my posts won't be deleted. The courtesies and freedoms here are not for abuse.

That must be nice,,it does not seem to apply to myself

 

[Hambone]

I can confirm, personally, what Mcorioles is saying. I was collecting camos in the mid 80s, one of the few people who was. They were few and far between to buy, but they were around at the major shows. There are plenty more originals available now due to the internets and worldwide markets. I've seen multiples of original camos fairly frequently. I've seen people in other countries who owned twins of my camos I bought in the 80s which were the first then I had seen.

The same is true of K98ks, as M99 says. I've bought plenty more original unusual and hard to find K98ks since the internet that I had never previously seen.

 

[Player11]

One of the last big Great Western Gun shows I went to in the late 90s I recall there being ONE original Afrika tan helmet for sale. Just a plain tan ND, nothing fancy, from French Algeria if I recall. This show was 8 miles of tables mind you. Most of the really nice camos had about dried up by then. .

Knowing you absolutely zero knowledge about helmets ( not only camos) i put my hand on fire that if in 2017 your knowledge is like this, back in the 90s you didnt know even what was a helmet

 

[mcorioles]

Plus if you don't show up to a show on set-up day you will see NOTHING !!!! of any quality its already gone !!!! Don't use that as a gauge please..

Back in the 90's I scoured shows for matching k98's and never found a one that was worth a shite... Why ???? why are there so many posted on forums now ????? I never saw any back then .... They must all be fake.... See how silly that sounds.

Exactly,his little window is not the world.

 

[Niblet]

if I was a 'bettin man,,I think that a certain collector (probably several) is being fed exotic freshies and the rest of the collecting community
is helping to authenticate them,,,rather ingenious actually

 

[Player11]

The answers why in the 90s was not so easy to see them is very easy to reply ( as easy as to debate M45´s knowledge) The collection of Nazi items was not so popular as now, in many places nazi items where bad sight, so they were in great collections and in the basement of houses, when the helmet collecting was more popular, those hidden items begun to see the light. In Russian many warehouses were full of german items, i knew a person who after the war ( he was a rich man) travelled across Europe and traded those items hidden in family houses for things that they needed.

I visited his house one time, it was full of boxes bad storaged, he didnt know even what was in the boxes. And yes!! he had a medic helmet there, a complete one with uniform, helmet and all.

He had KC fallen over the ground,and bayonets under the furnitures, he lost his head and his house was a house full of this "kind of rubbish".

The reply was very easy

 

[capt14k]

I also have to disagree that just because the Great Western Show and its 8 miles of tables you only saw one camo back in the 1990s means they weren't out there. Many collectors East of the Mississippi would not have been at the show. Many more from Europe would not have been at the show.

With the explosion of the internet of course more items are going to come to light. However even with the internet many items in Europe stay in Europe. How many collectors seek out making purchases directly from collectors in Europe? I happen to and a few others I'm sure do as well, but many don't even know where to begin.

I'm sure in Russia and former USSR countries there are even more items still in storage. Then there are the those in people's basements. So yes more items can show up and more will.

However considering the profits that are able to be made there will always be counterfeiters and other scum. So yes when a rare anything starts popping up there should be extra vetting. If suddenly a 50 of something that was thought only 10 were in existence pop up within a year or two then something for sure seems wrong. However to use what was known to even a group of collectors (none the less one collector) in the 1990s shouldn't play a major role by itself in determining if something is fake.

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[Hambone]

Make no mistake, there has been an explosion of fake camos, starting in the mid 1990s and increasing in the 2000s as they became more popular. The fakes are far better now, and fakes are being compared to fakes. I don't mean my comments to undermine that observation, which I deem to be more of a fact than simply my unsubstantiated opinion.

 

[Niblet]

The answers why in the 90s was not so easy to see them is very easy to reply ( as easy as to debate M45´s knowledge) The collection of Nazi items was not so popular as now, in many places nazi items where bad sight, so they were in great collections and in the basement of houses, when the helmet collecting was more popular, those hidden items begun to see the light. In Russian many warehouses were full of german items, i knew a person who after the war ( he was a rich man) travelled across Europe and traded those items hidden in family houses for things that they needed.

I visited his house one time, it was full of boxes bad storaged, he didnt know even what was in the boxes. And yes!! he had a medic helmet there, a complete one with uniform, helmet and all.

He had KC fallen over the ground,and bayonets under the furnitures, he lost his head and his house was a house full of this "kind of rubbish".

The reply was very easy

A nice story,,,unfortunately without pictures or more proof,,,it remains,,,,just a story
you guys are sure imaginative when it comes to trying to explain dozens of "rare items" and multiples of even rarer pieces
but they are just tales,,,,

 

[GunKraut]

Make no mistake, there has been an explosion of fake camos, starting in the mid 1990s and increasing in the 2000s as they became more popular. The fakes are far better now, and fakes are being compared to fakes. I don't mean my comments to undermine that observation, which I deem to be more of a fact than simply my unsubstantiated opinion.

One look at all the fake ZF41 cans and ZF4 cans tells the entire story about how far fakers will go and how good they have become. If I see a pristine or nicely aged scope can for sale, my first thought is "fake". Guilty until proven innocent. After all, its MY money.