Questionable Camos

[M45]

Also not to say I'm always right,I've made a few mistakes as I suspect everyone has.I posted these helmets knowing you two were going to shite all over them.

I know they are legit and many,many opinions back it up.

I'm not trashing people's camos for the sake of it. I'm giving an honest critique of questionable camos. And I gave you honest advice when I advised you to stay away from camos. Why ? You are not a camo expert, neither are your friends. I say that in all honesty. Militaria collecting has gotten so corrupt that gone are the days when we would wander the isles at gun shows purchasing everything that our budgets would allow. Nowadays there are so many fakes that if we went on a hog-wild buying spree upwards of 50-85% of our purchases would end up being junk. Why ? Because one person is probably not an expert on each and every field they want to collect in.

I'm not a k98k expert, so I would not want to wander into a gun show and buy one. Too dangerous. I would probably need to spend the better part of a year acquiring and reading most of the main reference books on the topic, join this forum to pick some brains, and have a k98k expert hold my hand at a show.

Re the many good opinions of your collection; recall that the Champagne SS fraud was published by a renowned SS helmet author, authenticated by him, sold by him with COAs guaranteeing authenticity, had vet provenance, had ownership histories, had one of the most prolific SS helmet collectors vetting them, had many good opinions of them on WAF, WRF, GHW1, yet they turned out to be forgeries; ALL of them. So you have a few forum friends with good opinions of your collection ? That really doesn't say much.

Some more food for thought.....

I see a pattern of critisizm from you two about "not enough wear" looks fresh"

Then how do you explain the many helmets of every branch that look brand new?

We know they are real because of the components and decals,right?

Now that's not to say a "fresher" looking Camo deserves less scrutiny,quite the opposite it needs more and the threshold should be higher than that if a 20% Left Camo that was rode hard.

I think it is fair to state that camo helmets are in a class distinct from factory issue branch helmets. Many factory issue helmets have been found in near unissued condition; DDs, SDs, NDs. Why ? Apparently because factory helmets were stored at depots until needed. Just like all kinds of other German equipment found in unissued condition. Depots were captured and new equipment distributed as war booty.

Camos were field modified helmets, not created in helmet factories and not stored in depots. These were already issued helmets that individual soldiers modified or were unit modified. A minty camo really does not make much sense.

 

[Niblet]

I'm not trashing people's camos for the sake of it. I'm giving an honest critique of questionable camos. And I gave you honest advice when I advised you to stay away from camos. Why ? You are not a camo expert, neither are your friends. I say that in all honesty. Militaria collecting has gotten so corrupt that gone are the days when we would wander the isles at gun shows purchasing everything that our budgets would allow. Nowadays there are so many fakes that if we went on a hog-wild buying spree upwards of 50-85% of our purchases would end up being junk. Why ? Because one person is probably not an expert on each and every field they want to collect in.

I'm not a k98k expert, so I would not want to wander into a gun show and buy one. Too dangerous. I would probably need to spend the better part of a year acquiring and reading most of the main reference books on the topic, join this forum to pick some brains, and have a k98k expert hold my hand at a show.

Re the many good opinions of your collection; recall that the Champagne SS fraud was published by a renowned SS helmet author, authenticated by him, sold by him with COAs guaranteeing authenticity, had vet provenance, had ownership histories, had one of the most prolific SS helmet collectors vetting them, had many good opinions of them on WAF, WRF, GHW1, yet they turned out to be forgeries; ALL of them. So you have a few forum friends with good opinions of your collection ? That really doesn't say much.





I think it is fair to state that camo helmets are in a class distinct from factory issue branch helmets. Many factory issue helmets have been found in near unissued condition; DDs, SDs, NDs. Why ? Apparently because factory helmets were stored at depots until needed. Just like all kinds of other German equipment found in unissued condition. Depots were captured and new equipment distributed as war booty.

Camos were field modified helmets, not created in helmet factories and not stored in depots. These were already issued helmets that individual soldiers modified or were unit modified. A minty camo really does not make much sense.

Some of the wisest advice I have ever read on a forum,,Thank you Sir

 

[Warrior1354]

But it does make you wonder how many good Camo helmets were passed up on for fear of them being fake as well. In fact SS items are a perfect example and its not just with helmets but with everything else tied with that. Anything too do with the SS brings five times more what everything else brings. In fact a good friend of mine picked up a really nice SS K98k sniper rifle at a big auction.

Yes I know one of the most fake pieces out there. In fact more of those rifles are here in this country then that were every issued too the SS. Anyway the other bidders were afraid of it and didn't bid high on it. He got it for a steal and it was the real deal. But he could tell it was real where others could not.

What I don't like is people that use that knowledge too make fakes and take advantage of people who didn't know better.

 

[Frank F.]

I think you missed my point Frank.Those two use the term "fresh" and " looks new" as a excuse.

Well we have unequivocal evidence a lot of non Camo helmets came back that look like they came from a time machine,some much older than camos done in the Spring of '44.

I think we are arguing the same thing.

F.

 

[Player11]

Me knowing nothing about camos has nothing to do with me stating what is being written and pointing out the worthless posts yourself and player11 are making that just attack M45, but you add nothing to counter him on specific helmets.


IMHO I think you are just upset that your collection may have lost value due to M45 educating other collectors.

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I think you are wrong, im debating the stupid critic that M45 says about Mr Mcorioles´s helmets, as it doesnt have any foundament, i try to make him to see what is there, but his ignorance wont let him see the light. I have arguement against his vain and empty arguement. The sentence " Those Normandy camos are highly faked, so according to this, i would be suspicious" doesnt may to have value for an experimented collector. It shows to have a great ignorance behing his arguements. A veteran and expert collector the first thing that ask when see those pics and has doubts is to ask more detailed pics, apart a hand inspection.

M45 IS A FRAUD

Said this, i dont think his collection has lost value, because as said, not any expert has said its bad. You have only hear one opinion.

Let me tell you something if you want to become a helmet collector ( not going to speak about a camo collector, for that you "MUST" handle before more decaled helmets), allways handle them, smell them. Never trust in any dealer and nor in somebody who judge camos without having handled any of them

 

[M45]

Ron R. GHW2 3 color Normandy/ghosted net.

ANOTHER ghosted net camo ! My my, these are getting popular. And miraculously, what is becoming popular is what is being "found" in the wood work.

Assessment: A fantastic movie prop, nothing more. RAL colors are off - red-brown appears as brick red, suspicious wear that appears contrived although they are getting better at distressing the crown, a bit of camo removed from the decal area to simulate decal hunters, a feature that some originals have.

A zoom of the rear rivet reveals the newness of the paint. This could indicate that the liner and rivets were removed prior to the cooking session outdoors and then reinstalled afterwards to protect the liner from undue damage. The rear rivet reveals the condition and newness of the paint prior to cooking.

 

[Niblet]

Ron R. GHW2 3 color Normandy/ghosted net.

ANOTHER ghosted net camo ! My my, these are getting popular. And miraculously, what is becoming popular is what is being "found" in the wood work.

Assessment: A fantastic move prop, no more. RAL colors are off - red-brown appears as brick red, suspicious wear that appears contrived although they are getting better at distressing the crown, a bit of camo removed from the decal area to simulate decal hunters, a feature that some originals have. A zoom of the rear rivet reveals the newness of the paint.

How can this be!!!! its in the infamous RONR collection!! his collection is pinned over on GHW2!! this is blasphemy!!!

 

[M45]

Some of the wisest advice I have ever read on a forum,,Thank you Sir

Believe you me, it's nice to be appreciated in this hobby : )

GHW2 reissue shot down. This one should scare the hell out of all of us. Color, material, and application are all bang-on IMO, just the way these were done at reissue depots.

A few minor alterations and this one could have passed muster. If they had backed off of the vents and decal area a bit with the paint and dusted this thing with a bit of something to tone it down and give it some age, it would appear as other "reissues" that have passed muster.

Two others in the same class - "reissues" using original SD helmets as the base (photos not in order). The other Heer was dusted a bit to tone it down and they eased off of the decal area and vents. It also has an HJ&K Heer decal probably postwar applied due to its condition.

 

[Hambone]

Ron R. GHW2 3 color Normandy/ghosted net.

ANOTHER ghosted net camo ! My my, these are getting popular. And miraculously, what is becoming popular is what is being "found" in the wood work.

Assessment: A fantastic move prop, nothing more. RAL colors are off - red-brown appears as brick red, suspicious wear that appears contrived although they are getting better at distressing the crown, a bit of camo removed from the decal area to simulate decal hunters, a feature that some originals have.

A zoom of the rear rivet reveals the newness of the paint. This could indicate that the liner and rivets were removed prior to the cooking session outdoors and then reinstalled afterwards to protect the liner from undue damage. The rear rivet reveals the condition and newness of the paint prior to cooking.

It looks like it was cleaned. An overly aggressive cleaning of original paint can distort the appearance, as seen here. I would want to examine this one.

 

[mcorioles]

M45 is correct in his assessment of your items,,I'm sorry, dont go away mad................

LOL from viewing 1 or 2 pictures from a distance.I posted those on purpose because a accurate assessment can not be made from those pics .

I'm smarter than you, sorry.

Not mad at all I already knew what you 2 were going to say.

You just got set up.

 

[mcorioles]

Is English your second language as well?

Me knowing nothing about camos has nothing to do with me stating what is being written and pointing out the worthless posts yourself and player11 are making that just attack M45, but you add nothing to counter him on specific helmets.

I clearly stated you just wrote what others said. You accuse me of not reading yet again you write what others said. When I said opinion of other experts I meant your own opinion and why, or player11's opinion with specifics.. Not just that others said they are real on another forum, or M45 is wrong.

IMHO I think you are just upset that your collection may have lost value due to M45 educating other collectors.

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Are you dense? Read my response to Nibbles.I already knew what they were going to say when I posted them.AND if you did know anything about camos you would also know a accurate assesments can't be made from those pics.

They basically are trolls.

How do you explain every single one of them getting thumbs up with detailed pics on both WAF and GHW except the wire woodchip that got mixed reviews?


If you were going to buy anything and 50-60 people some with years of experience told you something was good and only 2 who didn't on this form who obviously are buddies , who would you believe? It's really just common sense


BTW these positive opinions are given by many who own multiple camos they got directly.

These 2 own none.......yet they know what they are talking about.

This is why people have a problem.

 

[mcorioles]

I'm not trashing people's camos for the sake of it. I'm giving an honest critique of questionable camos. And I gave you honest advice when I advised you to stay away from camos. Why ? You are not a camo expert, neither are your friends. I say that in all honesty. Militaria collecting has gotten so corrupt that gone are the days when we would wander the isles at gun shows purchasing everything that our budgets would allow. Nowadays there are so many fakes that if we went on a hog-wild buying spree upwards of 50-85% of our purchases would end up being junk. Why ? Because one person is probably not an expert on each and every field they want to collect in.

I'm not a k98k expert, so I would not want to wander into a gun show and buy one. Too dangerous. I would probably need to spend the better part of a year acquiring and reading most of the main reference books on the topic, join this forum to pick some brains, and have a k98k expert hold my hand at a show.

Re the many good opinions of your collection; recall that the Champagne SS fraud was published by a renowned SS helmet author, authenticated by him, sold by him with COAs guaranteeing authenticity, had vet provenance, had ownership histories, had one of the most prolific SS helmet collectors vetting them, had many good opinions of them on WAF, WRF, GHW1, yet they turned out to be forgeries; ALL of them. So you have a few forum friends with good opinions of your collection ? That really doesn't say much.





I think it is fair to state that camo helmets are in a class distinct from factory issue branch helmets. Many factory issue helmets have been found in near unissued condition; DDs, SDs, NDs. Why ? Apparently because factory helmets were stored at depots until needed. Just like all kinds of other German equipment found in unissued condition. Depots were captured and new equipment distributed as war booty.

Camos were field modified helmets, not created in helmet factories and not stored in depots. These were already issued helmets that individual soldiers modified or were unit modified. A minty camo really does not make much sense.

LOL all opinions again no factsl. You were just told a few pages ago a German Vet told a poster here many camoed their helmets that weren't worn much and at non combat locations because they thought it was cool.

At this point you and nibbles are just trolling.

 

[Player11]

We are celebrating today 200 pages of rubbish and hodwash

 

[Hambone]

We are celebrating today 200 pages of rubbish and hodwash

and freedom of speech If I started censoring and deleting posts I did not agree with then we would call this the "Hambone K98k Megalomania Forum".

 

[Player11]

and freedom of speech If I started censoring and deleting posts I did not agree with then we would call this the "Hambone K98k Megalomania Forum".

True!! I do really appreciate it
Thanks!

 

[mcorioles]

and freedom of speech If I started censoring and deleting posts I did not agree with then we would call this the "Hambone K98k Megalomania Forum".

Out of the locals on this board you are the only one with common sense and actual knowledge on camos.

 

[capt14k]

Are you dense? Read my response to Nibbles.I already knew what they were going to say when I posted them.AND if you did know anything about camos you would also know a accurate assesments can't be made from those pics.

They basically are trolls.

How do you explain every single one of them getting thumbs up with detailed pics on both WAF and GHW except the wire woodchip that got mixed reviews?


If you were going to buy anything and 50-60 people some with years of experience told you something was good and only 2 who didn't on this form who obviously are buddies , who would you believe? It's really just common sense


BTW these positive opinions are given by many who own multiple camos they got directly.

These 2 own none.......yet they know what they are talking about.

This is why people have a problem.

If you need the thumbs up from those on other forums, the same forums that promoted champagne rune scam and xrfacts, M45 is right you probably shouldn't be collecting camos. I'm at least smart enough not to collect camos.

Both yourself and player11 have missed my point. You both just simply attack M45 for his opinions with explanation no matter what it is. Even when he is not offering an opinion but making a generalization. Why haven't you countered with why your helmets are real, because others say they are is not a convincing argument. Convince us why M45 is wrong.


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[Niblet]

If you need the thumbs up from those on other forums, the same forums that promoted champagne rune scam and xrfacts, M45 is right you probably shouldn't be collecting camos. I'm at least smart enough not to collect camos.

Both yourself and player11 have missed my point. You both just simply attack M45 for his opinions with explanation no matter what it is. Even when he is not offering an opinion but making a generalization. Why haven't you countered with why your helmets are real, because others say they are is not a convincing argument. Convince us why M45 is wrong.


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This is what I have been saying for about 20 pages now,,but you said it better than I have been saying it I guess
Good luck with those guys doing anything but continuing with a smear campaign and insults,,its all they know

 

[Frank F.]

and freedom of speech If I started censoring and deleting posts I did not agree with then we would call this the "Hambone K98k Megalomania Forum".

Hmmm... You may be a socialist. From Rosa Luxemburg, my favorite revolutionary socialist:

"Freedom is always, and exclusively, freedom for the one who thinks differently.”

“The most revolutionary thing one can do is always to proclaim loudly what is happening.”

“Freedom is always the freedom of the dissenter”

"Those who do not move, do not notice their chains.”

She died for these believes.

Somehow I think you'd agree with all of it, although it is Marxist thinking.

F.

 

[capt14k]

Hmmm... You may be a socialist. From Rosa Luxemburg, my favorite revolutionary socialist:

"Freedom is always, and exclusively, freedom for the one who thinks differently.”

“The most revolutionary thing one can do is always to proclaim loudly what is happening.”

“Freedom is always the freedom of the dissenter”

"Those who do not move, do not notice their chains.”

She died for these believes.

Somehow I think you'd agree with all of it, although it is Marxist thinking.

F.

Hambone I'm pretty sure is not a socialist. Nor will you find many here. Socialism is failure just like Communism. Socialism has destroyed Europe. The Democrats and RINOS tried their best to instill it here. Thankfully Trump has put a halt to it for now, but they will not stop trying. However they will have the fight of their lives on their hands. Myself and many like me will never let happen to America what has happened to Germany and other countries in Europe.

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