Third Party Press

LEGACY GUN BROKER BLACK WIDOW LUGER…GOOD FOR A LAUGH

This has been one of those 'ra-ra' statements that bugs the sh*t out of me. If you're one of the happy buyers who forked over 7, 10 or 15k for something and then when trying to sell it on down the road it brings 20-45% of what YOU paid him. Still 'always happy'?? I know I wouldn't be, but there's still people doing it on the daily.

The term is "trinket whore". Forums are filled with them, though not so much ours, which is why we have members here who are held in high regard yet banned from other sites. Trinket whore sites have things in common: revenue from dealers, banners, and/or are owned and operated by them; clickbait and data/information mining and exploitation; and accordingly, trinket whore infestation. We all like this stuff because finding it produces dopamine in our coconuts. However, just like guys whoring, gambling, doing blow, etc., if you let chasing the dopamine rush override common sense, ethics, and morality, then you're suffering from integrity override. In collecting, that integrity override occurs when you become an a$$ monkey for the person providing you the trinkets you crave, i.e., a trinket whore. Trinket whores like to publicly display their a$$ monkeyness (“PDA”) because they know their dealer will see this PDA and bestow upon them some trinket that they crave as a dopamine reward. Obviously, these are all my humble opinions. (y)
 
The term is "trinket whore"
I see where you're at there. I may find those crazy 'exotic freshies' or these Black Widows somewhat comical (my opinion) I can at least see why someone would covet them. The Notzi a$$ rags, Eva Braun panties and some of the nonsense much less so. That said, SOMEONE is buying the stuff
 
That which is allowed will continue (and get worse if some benefit is bestowed upon the bad actor). If a hobby does not insist upon integrity it will slowly lose it until there is none and those involved are a few old clown trinket whores waiting to die so their families can sell their trinkets cheap. And think of this: if someone displays a lack of integrity, trinket whoring, in their hobby, what of their life outside of that? Integrity is expensive and today, unpopular, thus it is not cheap and easy. But what things worth having are? STDs perhaps. All IMHO.
 
They were original wooden grips, but were armorer replacements. One would make the assumption that the previous grips were also wood as the Bakelite tended to hold up better.
I’ll play devils advocate and say It may have originally had black grips , was stripped of them because the gun wasn’t “mint” and was used to source grips to make a better condition black widow. It’s just as likely, which is why I bought my black widow out of the woodwork. I have a few brown recluse’s which will remain.
 
That which is allowed will continue (and get worse if some benefit is bestowed upon the bad actor). If a hobby does not insist upon integrity it will slowly lose it until there is none and those involved are a few old clown trinket whores waiting to die so their families can sell their trinkets cheap. And think of this: if someone displays a lack of integrity, trinket whoring, in their hobby, what of their life outside of that? Integrity is expensive and today, unpopular, thus it is not cheap and easy. But what things worth having are? STDs perhaps. All IMHO.

Your "humble opinion" is why you are one of the good ones Hammy. I am of the opinion that someone lacks Integrity, I won't deal with them under any circumstances or at any price.
 
I just posted a comment to the video:

"You forgot to mention that you switch grips wooden grips out with bakelite ones in order to get more money, thus destroying the originality of the pistol. In fact, you recently took one in with wooden grips and it is currently for sale on gunbroker (Item #946598943). Surprise, surprise, it now has bakelite grips on it."

The comment was removed. Perhaps because I posted a link to an ongoing auction?
So, I posted this:
"For some reason, my comment about Legacy Collectibles switching out wood grips for bakelite ones in order to enhance value was deleted. Perhaps because I posted a link to an auction where this has been done. Legacy took in one of these pistols about a month ago and it had wooden grips on it. Fast forward a month and it's now for sale with, you guessed it, bakelite grips.I thought you said you didn't do this kind of stuff Tom?"

That'll probably get deleted too.........
 
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And I posted a follow up comment:

I have proof too in the form of a before picture of the pistol as it was shipped to you and it has the wooden grips on it. I guess Integrity takes a back seat to profit at Legacy Colectibles.
 
And in response to another comment about his being "very honest":

"Honest? he swaps parts out to enhance the value of items. He loves telling stories about the men who brought these artifacts back and then sometimes besmirches the artifacts by replacing parts to up the value. I once sold Legacy Collectibles a beautiful Type 94 pistol with holster and cleaning rod as it came home with the Veteran. These items had been together for 70 years. Not long after, the pistol, holster and cleaning rod were all for sale SEPARATELY over at his buddie's shop, Pre98 Antiques. Why? Because at that time. you could get more money for the items separately than as a set; a set that had been brought home by one of the Greatest Generation 70 years prior and kept together for all those years. I vowed right then and there to never deal with either Legacy Collectibles or Pre98 Antiques ever again and I know a number of collectors who feel the same. When dealing with either of these shops....CAVEAT EMPTOR"
 
I must say that reading this thread is really eye opening for a young collector like myself looking to get started by buying a pre war Luger. Seems like the only guaranteed way to get an authentic Black Widow is the forum trader.
Of course no byf code Luger is pre war. As for buying an “authentic” black gripped Luger here or anywhere else, I guess it depends on how you define “authentic”. If the grips are period original, the gun serial range is within the range that composite grips were known to be factory used and if the condition of the grips is consistent with the guns finish condition then it is as authentic as any gun of any type can be given that even numbered parts can be replaced or faked. Unless you have first hand knowledge that something otherwise correct has been replaced, then basically that criteria is all any collector has on a gun they have not owned since it was made.
 
Of course no byf code Luger is pre war. As for buying an “authentic” black gripped Luger here or anywhere else, I guess it depends on how you define “authentic”. If the grips are period original, the gun serial range is within the range that composite grips were known to be factory used and if the condition of the grips is consistent with the guns finish condition then it is as authentic as any gun of any type can be given that even numbered parts can be replaced or faked. Unless you have first hand knowledge that something otherwise correct has been replaced, then basically that criteria is all any collector has on a gun they have not owned since it was made.
True, that's all anyone can really look for. I figure a pre war Luger would be a bit easier for a rookie like me since I don't have to worry about black grip madness there. Luger collecting seems to be a minefield though, I really need to get some good reading material on them before I commit to buying one. Will be avoiding Legacy's book, especially after seeing the review thread on it.
 
Simpson Ltd is pretty good to deal with. They are not cheap, but they know Luger's and you can be reasonably sure that you're getting just what you hope you are getting.

 
Simpson Ltd is pretty good to deal with. They are not cheap, but they know Luger's and you can be reasonably sure that you're getting just what you hope you are getting.

I hope they know Lugers better than K98ks because this was questionable to say the least.

 
They specialize in Lugers and Swiss firearms. Everything else is a crapshoot. You can find smoking deals every now and then on post war military firearms because they aren't up on the market.
 
They specialize in Lugers and Swiss firearms. Everything else is a crapshoot. You can find smoking deals every now and then on post war military firearms because they aren't up on the market.

As a Japanese collector I can tell you that if their Japanese offerings are any indication, they are many times egregiously overpriced with the exception of that 99 long they just sold. I don’t do business with them.
 
I don't get the hate going on here. I like "black widow" Lugers. Yes, it's a hokey made up name coined to make the poorest quality Luger more collectible. But if you collect Lugers it's an important variation. The salt blue finish and plastic grips stand in sharp contrast to the fine quality Lugers manufactured before WW1.

Regarding the Luger that started this post, it had "armorers replacement" grips. We know they were not original to the gun as manufactured, so it is no longer factory original. The question becomes who installed them and when? Unless you are the veteran who picked it up and brought it home after the war, it's anybody's guess. They could have been installed in the 1960s to replace the "cheap plastic" grips it was wearing. Or maybe the Germans did it in 1944. We will never know.

A childhood friend has the Luger his father brought home, complete with capture papers. It's in excellent condition. The vet was a Forward Observer in the 80th Division, fought from Normandy to Germany except for a short period of time when he was recovering from wounds. He told us how he came by the Luger. No, he didn't dispatch an SS officer in hand to hand combat. They were cleaning out a town, the surrendering Germans were tossing their weapons in a pile in the town square. A German approached the pile, took his belt and holster off, as he was about to throw it in the pile the vet took it out of his hand. The vet slid the holster off the belt and tossed the belt into the pile.

The Luger is a byf 42 in a brown dta 41 holster. Neither mag matches. The rest of the gun matches except for the grips, which are wood and serial numbered but not to the gun. This is how it was brought home. Who's to say when the grips were changed? Could have been the Germans, could have been the vet who preferred wood to plastic. If I had known at the time the grips were mismatched I would have asked the vet about it. Again, we'll never know.

The vet was a pretty cool guy, I learned a lot about the war in the ETO from him. He carried a Thompson, among his many stories was how SS prisoners were routinely culled out and shot. But that's another story.

In my world a gun is either factory original and matching or it is not. It's like being pregnant, there is no in between. Armorers parts are replacement parts. Period. I do make allowance for guns that went through a depot and are so marked.

I don't specifically collect Lugers but over the years I have owned a fair number of them.

None of this is meant as a defense of Legacy's actions, or to cast aspersions on anyone else, this is just my personal collecting philosophy developed over the last 50 years.
 
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