Third Party Press

DougB exposes "Champagne Rune" SS Decal Fraud and Adds a Coffin Nail to XRFacts

Looks like your predictions are spot on Peiper. Looks like there was a SOS night meeting of the WAF SS Lid Grand Poobahs who are now deciding that DougB's research is wrong and that They Know Better. Typically WAF, these new findings will be secret and in the form of edicts and rhetoric for the waftarded, not evidence, and those who disagree will be ridiculed, accused (of having a "secret agenda", of "doing Hambone's bidding", and being a "hobby anarchist", etc.), and then silenced. :googlie

We eagerly await the "evolving" response to DougB's findings. My question is "evolving" from what and into what?


Don't you see there is no such thing as absolute truth. Truth is subjective. Everything is always in a constant state of change. A universe made of energy that never stops changing cannot contain any absolute truths. Nothing can be absolute.
Therefore, like politicians, the " true believers" do not have to accept reality, because reality, like truth, is also subjective. :googlie
 
I have been an acolyte on GHW2, and I too noted that the Shampain Ruin scandal quickly went away even there. It is clear that there are people who know the truth on the Shampain Ruin scandal, but for reasons unclear choose to remain silent.

The number of high end camo helmets being presented now is a bit concerning. You might be spot on, Brian.

I think DougB distanced himself from GHW2 and other people are in charge there. They may not be interested in pursuing the truth. Probably the state of that hobby made Doug to distance himself from the hobby at all. Items from his collection are offered for sale. I wanted to contact him to ask few questions about one of his tunics and that is not possible on forums via pm. He also seems like not logging in for some time.
 
My opinions: I think DougB looked hard at was going on and simply got disgusted. For some of us, that conduct is unacceptable no matter where it is perpetrated. It's odd how some people think that fraud and unethical conduct is somehow not a big deal if perpetrated in a hobby. Again, I think these WAFperts and waftards have completely cr@pped in their own high dollar SS lids in the way this was handled. I couldn't in good conscience advise any collectors to get involved in that end of the hobby given its poor stewardship and pompous buffoonery. Without new entrants to a hobby it withers and dies.
 
I must admit that the signs of declining hobby is already present. The availability of german helmets in almost all configurations is quite good, and prices are on its way down.

This is of course the sad reality since the community stewards has chosen to not confront the obvious frauds which was and probably still is ongoing. Some people at WAF even ridicule those who has spoken out about the issues with the Shampain Ruin scandal.

Is a similar scandal in the field of camo helmets likely to be revealed and equally be obscured by a smoke screen..??
 
The solution is simple, and has always been the same. If you are thinking about buying anything 3R, especially SS, assume that it's fake. If you can get over the "fake" hurdle based on your knowledge, the knowledge of other people, and your gut, then maybe its worth buying. This new crop of "camo" helmets is just comical. Ten years ago, you did see 1/10 of the camos that you do today.

You see people on WAF saying things like "Ive been wanting to add a DD M-35 chickenwire camo helmet to my collection for years," and then somehow one always turns up for sale. Lets be honest. How many of those things exist in the world? Enough so that everyone can have on in their collection? Fakes.
 
I must admit that the signs of declining hobby is already present. The availability of german helmets in almost all configurations is quite good, and prices are on its way down.

This is of course the sad reality since the community stewards has chosen to not confront the obvious frauds which was and probably still is ongoing. Some people at WAF even ridicule those who has spoken out about the issues with the Shampain Ruin scandal.

Is a similar scandal in the field of camo helmets likely to be revealed and equally be obscured by a smoke screen..??



I see a close similarity to two old acquaintances of mine; one a collector who did not know a lot about German helmets but was very interested and had plenty of money to spend, the other a prolific helmet faker from the earlier days. The two were good friends and the collector trusted his friend to sell him authentic helmets. He sold him dozens of all types, SS camos, you name it. Years later, the collector had them independently appraised and found them ALL to be Norwegian reworks that had been painted up and decaled. These were clumsy fakes by today's standards but did fool many back in the 70s-80s.

The collector confronted the dealer and told him that he knew his collection was fake, but if he would just sell him an authentic M38 SD para helmet, he would forgive him for the fakes. I visited this collector after our mutual friend, the dealer, had passed on and he showed me the M38. It was an emotional time as the dealer was our dear friend and we were saddened by our loss, but I did not have the heart to tell him that his M38 was an older forgery from the 1970's produced in England. These particular fake shells were marked 'T64' on the roll of the rim with a lot# at the rear also marked on top of the roll.

I suppose the moral of the story is that you don't trust the cat to guard your chicken-house and expect your investment will be intact when you return. In the same vein, you don't trust forgers to sell you authentic TR militaria and expect your investment to increase in value over time. You don't walk into a card game when everyone is in ca-hoots against you and expect to legitimately win.

Apparently, these "community stewards" that you speak of were a group of dealers, mods, admins, forum members, collectors and such who were busy building trust and reputations and establishing themselves as authorities in the hobby, people to be 'listened to' and trusted. Since forums were behind them, they had the power to abuse, sensor, and ban all serious dissent, and so those left were those in ca-hoots against the unwary and uninitiated, long on cash but short on experience. When inexperienced moneyed-up collectors stumble into this looking for an unissued example of a SD SS M42 for example, they are 'turned on' to some good sham-pain ruins that have the backing of published works, forum vetting, COA's, SS helmet "experts" and "scientific testing" - XRFACTS.
 
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Some still believe in those champain runes. Somebody posted one for sale on WAF for almost $900 and today it is marked sold.
 
Some still believe in those champain runes. Somebody posted one for sale on WAF for almost $900 and today it is marked sold.

That could be an inside job to bolster confidence. A certain camo M38 para had been found in a barn, or so the story went. I counted at least 24 members who lined up behind it. I was surreal how one after the other vetted this thing. The M38 was real but the camo was obviously fake; little wear and a rust-wash job. I asked a certain mod (or former mod) what he thought of it. As soon as he opened his mouth, he was done for. If he vetted it, he would have looked like an idiot vetting an obvious fake. If he condemned it, he would have been going against the establishment agenda. Since I had pushed him into it, he felt he had to say something. So he attempted to walk the fence and fell flat on his face.

Later I heard the para sold for 30K. They must have had a big customer.
 
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Apparently, these "community stewards" that you speak of were a group of dealers, mods, admins, forum members, collectors and such who were busy building trust and reputations and establishing themselves as authorities in the hobby, people to be 'listened to' and trusted. Since forums were behind them, they had the power to abuse, sensor, and ban all serious dissent, and so those left were those in ca-hoots against the unwary and uninitiated, long on cash but short on experience. When inexperienced moneyed-up collectors stumble into this looking for an unissued example of a SD SS M42 for example, they are 'turned on' to some good sham-pain ruins that have the backing of published works, forum vetting, COA's, SS helmet "experts" and "scientific testing" - XRFACTS.

That is precisely why as soon as you see such censorship, can those people be trusted? I see people like Willi Z and that krewe speaking of how they "handle things privately". So, peddle and sell publicly, but handle fraud privately? The money of the unwashed collector masses is good enough to be taken, but they are not good enough to be privy to "advance collector" behind the scenes private discussions? Of course, my opinions. Ever see any of them here, on a level playing field, where they won't be censored, criticizing any of our positions? Never once. Why I wonder?
 
And by the way, the WAF SS Lid Bigwig klub met at the bar during the SOS and decided that there were problems with DougB's research and findings and that the response was "evolving". Well, "evolving" into what? Bull$hit for the waftarded to gobble? Anyone heard or seen anything to rebut DougB's findings?
 

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Smoke seems to work

Interesting development on the now locked thread concerning Shampain Ruin debated on the Warrelics forum. A lot of doubt cast on Doug's study. In addition Bob Coleman is dead certain he bought original Shampain Ruins in the sixties, even though the term did not exist back then. So it is better to trust the old timers claims on these helmets, rather than to see the so called originals being vetted on the forums. "Take my word for it or take a hike" tactic IMO.

I think Hambone predicted the probable actions and moderation on the Shampain Ruin in WAF and other forums quite clear early on this current thread. I am still amazed that the predictions came so true, but then again I had not exerienced such a controvercy on the forums before. It has been an interesting learning process.

It seems that this is no the only live thread, and it needs to stay open.
 
I think Hambone predicted the probable actions and moderation on the Shampain Ruin in WAF and other forums quite clear early on this current thread. I am still amazed that the predictions came so true, but then again I had not exerienced such a controvercy on the forums before. It has been an interesting learning process.

It seems that this is no the only live thread, and it needs to stay open.

My opinions: Thank you Peiper. I have been dealing with people engaged in shuck and jive and hide the weenie / running of interference for a living for over 20 years. It's easy to spot by people who have to deal with it, which is why I find their conduct and arguments so predictable, and amateurish, embarrassingly so from adults. IMHO, in this situation some of these guys are pompous buffoons running interference for their podnahs in a cyber-venue where they control the information. Opposing them in their surreal cyber bizarro world is like litigating against the Castros in the Cuban Socialista Supremo Federale Court (and these guys are the Castros' lawyers).

In the real world, on a level playing field, they would be shredded most ricky tick. They would be even more exposed as interference running disingenuous klowns. It's bizarre is to see these people who are (or claim to be) lawyers proclaiming how difficult and terrible a lawsuit to collect on a rejected COA on one of these Shampain Rune airbrushed humpjobs would be. Suffice it to say, all of this is a good barometer for trustworthiness of forums and segments of the hobby. They cannot allow transparency nor will they ever come here or appear on an uncensored playing field because they know they can't withstand objective scrutiny. If you can't withstand objective scrutiny, what does that say about your position? The appropriate response is a measured one with evidence and facts, not the subjective opinions of a moderator who says DougB is wrong and these are real because he saw one in 1961. :googlie Again, my opinions only.
 
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If a fake turns up, and you willfully help hide the fakery, you are part of the faking operation.

I don't associate with those that promote fakes. I'm still frustrated that a certain member of another forum was caught faking K98 snipers, and was forgiven rather readily. He was claiming something about having a sick child as grounds for buying guns on gunbroker, putting scopes on them, and then reselling them as originals?

Not naming names, just expressing my thoughts generally.
 
If a fake turns up, and you willfully help hide the fakery, you are part of the faking operation.

I don't associate with those that promote fakes. I'm still frustrated that a certain member of another forum was caught faking K98 snipers, and was forgiven rather readily. He was claiming something about having a sick child as grounds for buying guns on gunbroker, putting scopes on them, and then reselling them as originals?

Not naming names, just expressing my thoughts generally.

Oh he wasn't forgiven here or by everyone. I think the general consensus was more, "it's a positive you stood up like a man after being cold busted, but you still are a rifle humper and that won't ever be forgotten."
 
I obtained my first German helmet when I was in the eighth grade (1959 - 1960). Now I don't know the moderator who saw a real CH in 1961 but if he has the gift of total recall I want to know what he's eating for breakfast. In 1961 no one was looking too hard at what would have appeared to be decals, so what would stand out to anyone to make for such a long term memory? He is claiming a positive identification at a distance of 55 years! I can still recall the major details of my helmet (which was stolen 8 years after I got it) because of the peculiar partial defacement of the decals. Even so, I doubt that I could make a positive ID at this late date. Why would anyone take this person seriously? I am going on to 70 this year. This fellow must be at least as old as I am and probably older. By this time in his life my father's memories of WWII were a bit enhanced/confused - it's the process of aging. I detect motive in the statement of the person with such a good memory.

I am glad this thread is still open. I noted that the first thread on GHW2 was closed as DougB was signing out and some respondents were asking about things that were adequetly covered if only people would read. The second thread was closed after it degenerated into a slugfest between two opinionated members. I note that the moderator RoyA invited anyone who wanted to discuss the CH helmets to open a new thread so the topic is not verboten on that forum.

Cheers & Happy Easter,
-Mike
 

These posts are saved for history. This pretty much paints the picture. Ajax lays it out, is attacked, told he is "rude" for responding with facts, then the thread is locked because of "personal attacks". Has anyone here been butthurt by us NOT locking this thread? :laugh:
 

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I note that the moderator RoyA invited anyone who wanted to discuss the CH helmets to open a new thread so the topic is not verboten on that forum.

Cheers & Happy Easter,
-Mike

Rev., I believe the thread was handled OK at GHW2. I wouldn't have stopped it, but it's their site and forums, which I support FWIW. It was the "home" of the DougB reveal, and that right there is worthy of big ups.
 

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