A sniper rifle so rare that it might start a controversy :)

[CanadianAR]

Are you trying to say Rich Law has now been fooled and used faked sniper in his published documentation? Richard Law seems to be well respected author with number of books written on the K98k.

People been telling me how bolt handle relief cut can only be on cigarette rifles, that "it wasn't use on military snipers". Well that doesn't appear to be the case anymore based on what I found in published books on the subject. So with this regard specifically to the bolt, yes it is evidence/provenance.

Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahha

There are several documented and proven fakes in his books......

One of the reasons his books are so outdated, and should not be relied on for anything but very basic reference.

 

[pzjgr]

Are you trying to say Rich Law has now been fooled and used faked sniper in his published documentation? Richard Law seems to be well respected author with number of books written on the K98k.

People been telling me how bolt handle relief cut can only be on cigarette rifles, that "it wasn't use on military snipers". Well that doesn't appear to be the case anymore based on what I found in published books on the subject. So with this regard specifically to the bolt, yes it is evidence/provenance.

Wow, you really don't know WTF you are talking about do you??? Backbone and Backbone II have plenty of outright fakes and humped up guns pictured, its well known....so, yeah, Richard Law was either fooled into using fakes, or did it knowingly...

You are an idiot sent to torment aren't you?

ETA OK, I may have been a bit harsh, but your statements prove that you aren't very knowledgeable about the subject. Sorry....but if you think you can take everything in Backbone II as gospel, you are sorely mistaken.

 

[basile]

In defense of Richard Law he was a honest & honorable man who was simply way, way too trusting of an extremely limited number of so called EXPERTS, when working up his books. For their time his books were "cutting edge" and the internet was in it's infancy. We, with the benefit of the internet and hindsight, now know the books are full of what turned out to be erroneous, at times, patently false information and spurious examples of rifles.

However, when published over 22 years ago, it was virtually impossible to cross check fact versus fiction, with any reasonable chance for a consensus, among knowledgeable people. Law, at least tried to give collectors a base knowledge of the Kar98k rifle, and without his first attempts, where would we be today ????

Remember before he tried there was absolutely nothing but a vast void, as far as collecting the German service rifle was concerned, so let's not be too hasty and cast completely bogus aspersions on Richard Law.

 

[pzjgr]

In defense of Richard Law he was a honest & honorable man who was simply way, way too trusting of an extremely limited number of so called EXPERTS, when working up his books. For their time his books were "cutting edge" and the internet was in it's infancy. The books are full of what turned out to be erroneous and, at times, patently false information and spurious rifles.

However, when published over 22 years ago, it was virtually impossible to cross check fact versus fiction, with any reasonable chance for a consensus, among knowledgeable people. Law, at least tried to give collectors a base knowledge of the Kar98k rifle, and without his first attempts where would we be today ????

Remember before he tried there was absolutely nothing but a vast void, as far as collecting the German service rifle was concerned, so let's not be too hasty to cast completely bogus aspersions on Richard Law.

I agree Mr. Law and his book was a huge influence on me, and all you say is true. There was virtually nothing before that, and most discussions were carried out via phone, mail, or at shows...I cut my teeth on Backbone, and it shows...I like to white in the major markings on my 98k's (but not the wood, never did that), and my data sheets were heavily influenced by his layout. My copy is stained, and dogeared and full of cosmoline. I wouldn't trade it for anything. I also have Backbone II, and enjoy it for what it is...

But this guy coming in here and stating what he did about Backbone II speaks volumes about him. He is either a newbie who has read enough books to be dangerous, or 15 years old, or simply a troll since most people who collect 98k's and their variants know that there are fake and spurious/humped rifles pictured in the books, especially in Backbone II.

Between the whole lie of omission with the original posting of the "VZ-24" sniper and this statement, I have to wonder if he is not Stug III's brother or alter ego....

 

[pgaplayerlss]

Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahha

There are several documented and proven fakes in his books......

One of the reasons his books are so outdated, and should not be relied on for anything but very basic reference.

according to the German national library it was published in 2012?

I don't keep up with K98 stuff. I found those pages researching Srb & Stys scopes and only now traced that back to that specific book

 

[basile]

There are reprints, but Volume 1 of BBOW was published in 1991 [ I have No.104 0f 200 printed for the old Karbine Collectors Network] Volume No 2 ,[ the sniper book] was published in 1996. Richard Law died soon after it reached publication and neither book were ever updated. The rights to the books were owned by his longtime girlfriend. I do not know who has rights to the books now.

 

[Amberg]

In defense of Richard Law he was a honest & honorable man who was simply way, way too trusting of an extremely limited number of so called EXPERTS, when working up his books. For their time his books were "cutting edge" and the internet was in it's infancy. We, with the benefit of the internet and hindsight, now know the books are full of what turned out to be erroneous, at times, patently false information and spurious examples of rifles.

However, when published over 22 years ago, it was virtually impossible to cross check fact versus fiction, with any reasonable chance for a consensus, among knowledgeable people. Law, at least tried to give collectors a base knowledge of the Kar98k rifle, and without his first attempts, where would we be today ????

Remember before he tried there was absolutely nothing but a vast void, as far as collecting the German service rifle was concerned, so let's not be too hasty and cast completely bogus aspersions on Richard Law.

There is no need to defend Mr. Law, because nobody wanted to offend him. He published great books for that time.
Same thing with “The German Sniper” by Peter Senich. First published in 1982 or so, when only very few collectors knew anything about German snipers.
Both authors published game-changing books, and deserve full respect for their work.

We can not compare their research options, with what we have today.

If they were fooled or did it knowingly, I do not know. But both books show plenty of faked, humped ….. rifles and scopes.
The mistake is to think, a rifle or scope .... is original, only because it is shown in a book.

Thanks

 

[basile]

There is no need to defend Mr. Law, because nobody wanted to offend him. He published great books for that time.
Same thing with “The German Sniper” by Peter Senich. First published in 1982 or so, when only very few collectors knew anything about German snipers.
Both authors published game-changing books, and deserve full respect for their work.

We can not compare their research options, with what we have today.

If they were fooled or did it knowingly, I do not know. But both books show plenty of faked, humped ….. rifles and scopes.
The mistake is to think, a rifle or scope .... is original, only because it is shown in a book.

Thanks

Well, offending a dead man is rather hard to do, and Law died in 1997.

Having said that, given the absolute dearth of verifiable knowledge available back then I think it would be totally spurious to think either author knowingly foisted fake / false data or guns on the public. As for those who supplied the bogus guns and information, who can say with certainty what their motives were. There was truly no system in place to vet anything at that time and, although, examples were far more common and inexpensive during that period, most of us collecting knew damned little, in reality, with no real network available.

Military gun collectors, other than Class III, were considered "bottom feeders" by the Winchester, Colt, and Luger big boys of the period.

 

[vaughn99]

Hello,

i think he posted the wrong date for wrong book guys the 2012 would be roberts scope book second run with updated scopes added. first run was 2007 and the new one now 2 books are dated 2013.

later
vaughn

 

[Absolut]

Have found that Law book in my library, you're linking to the "updated variant" where both of his books have been republished in one book. The book contains (as already mentioned) errors, and especially on the Suhler Double Claw mount the shown rifles are fakes. What isn't shown in the pictures you're posting is that the rifle has a SS Deaths Head on the barrel which is also a fake, plus the author mentions that the original serial on the barrel has been milled off and a new one has been struck.

Also in other pictures you can clearly see that the bolt has been nearly unbelieveable precisely milled off to fit the scope. Secondly, the safety on this rifle has not only been shortened, but also features a waffling and a cut edge on top. Also, if you look close on the total picture of this rifle, you can see a damage at the butt of the stock, plus a drilled hole which was (supposed) done by a hunter after WWII.

Compare this rifle to original Suhler Clawmount snipers, all of those rifles have a front scope base silver soldered to the receiver ring to gain heigh. This rifle has a dovetail where the front base has been attached to the rifle. Not even SS armorers would have been such stupid to mill a dovetail into a receiver ..

 

[pgaplayerlss]

Have found that Law book in my library, you're linking to the "updated variant" where both of his books have been republished in one book. The book contains (as already mentioned) errors, and especially on the Suhler Double Claw mount the shown rifles are fakes. What isn't shown in the pictures you're posting is that the rifle has a SS Deaths Head on the barrel which is also a fake, plus the author mentions that the original serial on the barrel has been milled off and a new one has been struck.

Also in other pictures you can clearly see that the bolt has been nearly unbelieveable precisely milled off to fit the scope. Secondly, the safety on this rifle has not only been shortened, but also features a waffling and a cut edge on top. Also, if you look close on the total picture of this rifle, you can see a damage at the butt of the stock, plus a drilled hole which was (supposed) done by a hunter after WWII.

Compare this rifle to original Suhler Clawmount snipers, all of those rifles have a front scope base silver soldered to the receiver ring to gain heigh. This rifle has a dovetail where the front base has been attached to the rifle. Not even SS armorers would have been such stupid to mill a dovetail into a receiver ..

SS DOW K98 Snipers were dovetailed on the front, no? So were Romanian IOR VZ-24 snipers

 

[Amberg]

Well, offending a dead man is rather hard to do, and Law died in 1997.

Sorry if I expressed myselfe unclearly. If he is dead or not, I did not want to offend him!

I'll quit that discussion here, and that is what I recommend to all other serious collectors.
It's getting boring.
Thanks

 

[StuG.III]

Are you trying to say Rich Law has now been fooled and used faked sniper in his published documentation? Richard Law seems to be well respected author with number of books written on the K98k.

People been telling me how bolt handle relief cut can only be on cigarette rifles, that "it wasn't use on military snipers". Well that doesn't appear to be the case anymore based on what I found in published books on the subject. So with this regard specifically to the bolt, yes it is evidence/provenance.

Of course. Pga provides document and certification and book reference so he is the one who makes sense. If it is in those books as he shows, who are you to argue? I think he brings wisdom and this angers many. You can place me on the side of pgaplayr because he makes the most sense. Where are your books to show different? All of you should watch this.

 

[Amberg]

OK,
I'm sure now! Both of you are paid for doing this to us!
If you do not like this forum or the members, nobody forces you to stay here.
Thanks

 

[StuG.III]

OK,
I'm sure now! Both of you are paid for doing this to us!
If you do not like this forum or the members, nobody forces you to stay here.
Thanks

Amberg, I am just agreeing with pga because he makes sense to me and is smart. I am sorry if this causes you pain and anger. I love all humans being. Many of my postings disappear and I get them placed in the "Infernal" but I still love this forum! If I could ship you this basket we would but they are not available in the USA (yet!). Don't sit on it!

 

[pzjgr]

I'll bet she is a real sausage expert.....she probably knows sausage very well, and knows exactly how to handle sausage.....

 

[StuG.III]

I'll bet she is a real sausage expert.....she probably knows sausage very well, and knows exactly how to handle sausage.....

Ha, you are one of those who wishes to sit in the basket This is for eating, not sitting! Your comments are not on topic, so keep your focus on intelligent discussion

 

[pzjgr]

Hey, I didn't post a pic of sausage girl....I was just speculating on her expertise....

I can speculate on the OP's expertise, but he has proven his with his posts, I bend to superior intellect....

 

[Hercules]

Intelligent Conversation

Ha, you are one of those who wishes to sit in the basket This is for eating, not sitting! Your comments are not on topic, so keep your focus on intelligent discussion [/QUOTE

I think you will have better luck explaining the authenticity of those sausages. It is time for an intervention I think. Mr. Moderator if you could please help these gentleman out. Best Regards.

 

[don w]

You know guys, talking about Richard Law and the collectors whom contributed to his books,,we all stand on thier shoulders.
Those collectors have opened thier doors to Richard back then, and still do with fellow collectors.
IMO- They got the interest and fun really going.

As to the sniper rifle in question, looks like a post war done item to me.