A sniper rifle so rare that it might start a controversy :)

[Stana]

Optikotechna, from all the research and photo documentation i have, have kept their serial number sequncing the same since start of the production before occupation. It started with 4digit "24_____" and ended up in 6 digit "24_____" post war. All DOW and DOW+ marked scopes will fall into the 5-digit and 6-digit range. Further more, I have never seen an "Opticotechna" with a "C" marked scope.

Following are some quick pic documentation to illustrate the serial numbers.

Early, prior to occupation, production 4-digit:






Occupation period DOW/DOW+ marked, 6-digit:





Post-war "Optikotechna" marked, 6-digit:

Hi,
What about 3 digit SN on typical SS DCdow scope?
Have a look on pics, you mean that yours is middle this line? That is is non sense. Is not it? Or do you mean that Germans made several very similar scopes during War?
Compare scale on yours dow. It is not engraving in production, but later (very often made for showing that is from war time) . Scale ring without numbers are typical for postwar hunting scopes. I had several in my hands as well.
Romanian Vz24 were used for sniper with typical mount. Yours is nice, but never been in Czech army.
German army had used two brands scopes from Czech production- Optikotechna and Srb and Stys Lovec ( this brand production was later moved to Meopta)
But not your type. Start production of this type was after occupation ( I mean dial ring around of tube)

Unfortunatelly I have pics Opticotechna only without look on sign, but maybe Dave has one( may not be acceptable, I know. I lost some data in my old PC)

BTW your Czech is very good.
Where did you learn ?
BR
Stan

 

[pgaplayerlss]

Hi,
What about 3 digit SN on typical SS DCdow scope?
Have a look on pics, you mean that yours is middle this line? That is is non sense. Is not it? Or do you mean that Germans made several very similar scopes during War?
Compare scale on yours dow. It is not engraving in production, but later (very often made for showing that is from war time) . Scale ring without numbers are typical for postwar hunting scopes. I had several in my hands as well.
Romanian Vz24 were used for sniper with typical mount. Yours is nice, but never been in Czech army.
German army had used two brands scopes from Czech production- Optikotechna and Srb and Stys Lovec ( this brand production was later moved to Meopta)
But not your type. Start production of this type was after occupation ( I mean dial ring around of tube)

Unfortunatelly I have pics Opticotechna only without look on sign, but maybe Dave has one( may not be acceptable, I know. I lost some data in my old PC)

BTW your Czech is very good.
Where did you learn ?
BR
Stan

Stan,

Are you talking about the 3-4 digits on the SS mounts? Those are generally attributed to the mating rifle S/N, nothing to do with the scope production. As I recall some SS DOW K98 also got the rifle S/N stamped on the tube. For more details see here:

http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/firearms-ordnance/waffen-ss-double-claw-mount-98k-sniping-rifle-17821/

The SS did have their own particular double claw mounts that they used. I never said the mounts on my rifle are German (or SS) made. But Germans did use various double claw mounts. As I recall SS had lot of their own "stuff" separate from Wehrmacht/Heer because the German regulars saw the SS as "competition" and wouldn't let them use their procurement channels.

If you go back couple of pages. I already posted ANOTHER Optikotechna zf39 scope....this one DOW+ marked....that also have mounts closely similar to mine.

You are correct the other VZ24 sniper was used by Romania....and actually is a WWII sniper....but that's another big controversy/can of worms when it gets to those too haaa

Ja jsem cechoamerican

 

[Stana]

Stan,

Are you talking about the 3-4 digits on the SS mounts? Those are generally attributed to the mating rifle S/N, nothing to do with the scope production. As I recall some SS DOW K98 also got the rifle S/N stamped on the tube. For more details see here:

http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/firearms-ordnance/waffen-ss-double-claw-mount-98k-sniping-rifle-17821/

The SS did have their own particular double claw mounts that they used. I never said the mounts on my rifle are German (or SS) made. But Germans did use various double claw mounts. As I recall SS had lot of their own "stuff" separate from Wehrmacht/Heer because the German regulars saw the SS as "competition" and wouldn't let them use their procurement channels.

If you go back couple of pages. I already posted ANOTHER Optikotechna zf39 scope....this one DOW+ marked....that also have mounts closely similar to mine.

You are correct the other VZ24 sniper was used by Romania....and actually is a WWII sniper....but that's another big controversy/can of worms when it gets to those too haaa

Ja jsem cechoamerican

Hi,
I know this rifle from warrelics web. I do not believe that is good
German never put SN of rifle on mount of SS DC, That is nonsense too.
Never seen it. SN of the Rifle was on tube of scope.And SS DC rifles and scopes are my favorite.
I do not believe this Optikotechna with dow sign as well. I have never seen it.
But I have seen many fantasy in Czech and from Czech.
Go to Czech Ebay ( Aukro) or have a look on Ebay int. There you can see many fantasy.
I am sorry but you think you are right and I am sure I am right.

I want spent my money only for 100% good rifles and scopes.
BR
Stan

 

[pgaplayerlss]

Hi,
I know this rifle from warrelics web. I do not believe that is good
German never put SN of rifle on mount of SS DC, That is nonsense too.
Never seen it. SN of the Rifle was on tube of scope.And SS DC rifles and scopes are my favorite.
I do not believe this Optikotechna with dow sign as well. I have never seen it.
But I have seen many fantasy in Czech and from Czech.
Go to Czech Ebay ( Aukro) or have a look on Ebay int. There you can see many fantasy.
I am sorry but you think you are right and I am sure I am right.

I want spent my money only for 100% good rifles and scopes.
BR
Stan

I dont know what to tell ya..... here is a documented SS DOW sniper with Vet bring-back papers marked in german font that looks accurate. I supplied all the photo evidence on the scope serials that I can.

One I come across DOW/DOW+ scope in 5-digit S/N I will forward it on.

 

[Dave Roberts]

There is LOT of bad information floating around.

1-2) The Zeiss sniper have not only been documented on paper by Czech historians, people also have in their possession the Czech marked scopes.

5) Serial number simply disproves the claims it's post war scope.

6) It would be expected that commercial rings of that period would be used for trial/proof rifles. Reinventing a wheel for prototype simply makes no sense.

7) I have yet to see any "OptiCotechna" marked scope, period and I seen a few. In my private conversation with Dave, his information which came from a guy in Czech that claims he worked a Optikotechna/Meopta made claimed that the way to tell post war from pre-war/war is that POSTWAR was "OPITCOTECHNA" while (pre)WAR was "OPTIKOTECHNA"


I'm so much contradicting information being put forth by so many knowledgeable members here it's clear I will have to do my own detail research.

That is Not what I was Imply I believe their was a Misunderstanding on Your Part as to the Spelling of Optico or Optiko as I said I can not remember which it was I was told but I will say it was STANA who mentioned this Fact to me . Back to the Spelling this was in regards to the German Take Over of Czechoslovakia and how the Spelling was Changed by the Germans .

 

[pgaplayerlss]

That is Not what I was Imply I believe their was a Misunderstanding on Your Part as to the Spelling of Optico or Optiko as I said I can not remember which it was I was told but I will say it was STANA who mentioned this Fact to me . Back to the Spelling this was in regards to the German Take Over of Czechoslovakia and how the Spelling was Changed by the Germans .

Dave, you mentioned the the spellings one being post-war and then other being WWII then later you came back saying one with K is WWII so I think that's where this started.

But I believe this is all a moot point as at this point it is pure hearsay that "optiCotechna" was ever used. Ignoring the fact that in German optic is spelled "optik"....yes with a K..... there is not a single documented scope that has been spelled with a "C"

It turns out many/most high-precision products....specially glass/optics....coming out of the Czech per-WWII were produced by companies run by ethic Germans and thus many had German spelling to their name already. Fact that both the founders of Optikotechna were named Alois, strongly suggest Sudeten heritage.

"OptiCotechna" is simply wrong from either linguistics.

 

[Dave Roberts]

Peter
Here is Same Scope Type and Manufactured say Time Period as the one on Your VZ-24 I am only referring to Scope not the Rings . You said Your Scope on this VZ-24 has a 5 Digit Serial Number can You Show the whole Serial Number . If in fact Your Scope has 5 Digit Serial Number there is a Possibility that the Serial Number has been Altered to enhance and legitimize or FOOL the a Potential Buyer . There is a Lot of Skullduggery that takes place when someone is try to fool a Buyer . I am not implying that was the case with You because You made it know to me You paid VERY Little Money for this Rifle . I am glad You did Not Pay a Lot for the Rifle because in my opinion there is a Few Troubling Issues which I mentioned in my 1st post as to why I am far from thinking it is Original Pre or War Time Military .

 

[Dave Roberts]

Dave, you mentioned the the spellings one being post-war and then other being WWII then later you came back saying one with K is WWII so I think that's where this started.

But I believe this is all a moot point as at this point it is pure hearsay that "optiCotechna" was ever used. Ignoring the fact that in German optic is spelled "optik"....yes with a K..... there is not a single documented scope that has been spelled with a "C"

It turns out many/most high-precision products....specially optics....coming out of the Czech per-WWII were produced by companies run by ethic Germans and thus many had German spelling to their name already. Fact that both the founders of Optikotechna were named Alois, strongly suggest Sudeten heritage.

"OptiCotechna" is simply wrong from either linguistics.

Peter I also told You that I was not not exactly sure what My Czech friend had mentioned to me and that I would contact him and find out what exactly was said . That friend is Stana so He can explain what he said . As to the Scope with Ring on it a Few Pages back that You mention I can not see the whole Scope but I suspect it is ORIGINALLY a Dow Scope Late War Type made for LSR`s Sniper Rifles and this Scope was altered with these Dbl Claw Rings POST WAR this was NOT done War Time this is My Opinion in regards to Rings being added Post War . Best Regards

 

[pgaplayerlss]

Peter I also told You that I was not not exactly sure what My Czech friend had mentioned to me and that I would contact him and find out what exactly was said . That friend is Stana so He can explain what he said . As to the Scope with Ring on it a Few Pages back that You mention I can not see the whole Scope but I suspect it is ORIGINALLY a Dow Scope Late War Type made for LSR`s Sniper Rifles and this Scope was altered with these Dbl Claw Rings POST WAR this was NOT done War Time this is My Opinion in regards to Rings being added Post War . Best Regards

Oh Stana already explained himself in an earlier posts here. He still claims that Germans renamed it to Opticotechna during occupation. This simply makes little sense and is not documented on any occupation product that i have seen. I would like to see some documentation. Main reason why I'm talking about this is because I'd like to stop bad info from spreading.

Not sure what the deal is with the DOW+ scope I posted earlier. All i know is that it has similar mounts and no indication of other mounts being on it judging by finish wear patterns

 

[Nigromontanus]

Optikotechna, from all the research and photo documentation i have, have kept their serial number sequncing the same since start of the production before occupation. It started with 4digit "24_____" and ended up in 6 digit "24_____" post war. All DOW and DOW+ marked scopes will fall into the 5-digit and 6-digit range.

Ja, ja.

 

[Nigromontanus]

sorry forgot to post pics

 

[WaA63]

Is that stamp on the follower from Carl Gustaf?

 

[maxximmumm]

I'm with you on this - the stippling looks like it was probably done by someone whose seen stippling but did'nt have an example in front of him as a guide to follow so result is exceptionally crude - applied using a too large and blunt tool compared to much finer more dense stippling that one generally sees pre and post WW2 - and, who does stippling over the screwheads?????? (refer to the GB pics of the screws holding the front base on receiver) - and when you look at the pics to see where the stippling has been applied - it makes no sense, not even for a cosmetising effort certainly has no military/camouflage value, but could be sensible if it was needed to cover some inconvenient details

_____________________________________

A more likely scenario:

American gunsmith acquires P-series vz24 rifle, some German K98k/Gew98 parts, and a commercial post-war Czech DC scope with bases. Converts said parts into cool fantasy sniper rifle.

 

[pgaplayerlss]

I'm with you on this - the stippling looks like it was probably done by someone whose seen stippling but did'nt have an example in front of him as a guide to follow so result is exceptionally crude - applied using a too large and blunt tool compared to much finer more dense stippling that one generally sees pre and post WW2 - and, who does stippling over the screwheads?????? (refer to the GB pics of the screws holding the front base on receiver) - and when you look at the pics to see where the stippling has been applied - it makes no sense, not even for a cosmetising effort certainly has no military/camouflage value, but could be sensible if it was needed to cover some inconvenient details

same story, different gun (not mine). Scope bases were not meant to be removed.

 

[pgaplayerlss]

Hello guys,


That's all the documentation I have found few years ago from Meopta (about Optikotechna).

I had a very long conversation with Mrs Vezelà from Meopta Optika and she gave me all the pics of pre-war,wartime and post-war scopes they still have.


So, there is no "Opticotechna" marked scope. Plus, I never saw any Opticotechna 4x6°...

Regards,

voigtlander,

THANK YOU, for the pictures! Your 3rd picture (OPTIKOTECHNA marked scope with SS double claw mounts) pretty much settles the discussion that initially all scopes were marked "otikotechna" and only later in occupation were they switch in DOW/DOW+.

 

[agalland]

Well, after reviewing all the postings I have to agree. What you have is a one off , or one of a few."


Well...it aint no one off

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=347449838

Another one that had been sportorized sold just a week or so ago for 680.00.

Notice the milled/flatened/unserialed safety.

Obviously somebody was making the damn things

Somebody start making a list

 

[pzjgr]

Wow, stippling looks the same....good catch on that one...

Although the question remains....who made them?

Although, the s/n's are awfully similar, both rifle and scope, perhaps this is the rifle in question that has been re-stocked?

 

[RyanE]

Well...it aint no one off

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=347449838

Another one that had been sportorized sold just a week or so ago for 680.00.

Notice the milled/flatened/unserialed safety.

Obviously somebody was making the damn things

Somebody start making a list

Its the same gun. Before it was restored with vz parts and military stock.

 

[pzjgr]

Its the same gun. Before it was restored with vz parts and military stock.

Bingo.............Kinda sheds a whole new light on it...huh?

 

[mauser99]

and look who the winning bidder is !! wow... what a coincidence ! Its just the ole "maybe if I wish hard enough It might be a real sniper" Not to many places to hide on the ole internet. check mate..