LEGACY GUN BROKER BLACK WIDOW LUGER…GOOD FOR A LAUGH

fishermankw

fishermankw

Senior Member
About a month or so ago I sold a few pistols to Legacy, offered me way more than I thought was market value so I let them go. Was perusing gun broker tonight and came across a “Black Widow” Luger that at first glance seemed familiar, so I clicked on it. Low and behold there was the Luger I sold them, only when I sold it to them it had armorer replacement wooden grips… Laughable


Modedit: P 08 Luger byf 42 4738 k swapped grips ; "before" pic at far right.
 

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Tommy the Turd.

aka

Turdy Tom

aka

Tommy Beenadick (misspelling intentional)

I wouldn't buy from that guy at any price. I put him right down there with Scotty Beenadick.
 
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Wilhelm said:
Tommy the Turd.

aka

Turdy Tom

aka

Tommy Beenadick (misspelling intentional)

I wouldn't buy from that guy at any price. I put him right down there with Scotty Beenadick.
Click to expand...
I didn’t know they carried the reputation, truthfully had I known I wouldn’t have sold them anything. A guy I know said they seemed desperate for inventory and overpaying to get WWII firearms, which I would agree with based on what they paid for the items they bought from me. That being said I’m done selling to them. Clearly altering for a higher profit isn’t over them, that’s bar business.
 
To his credit or not ? the word salad he lays down depending on how its interpreted he's saying the grips were replaced but, no mention of by who or when ? This is the grey area in these listings. Being a K block the grips that were on it may have been correct ? I have seen a K block with correct period numbered grips .

Anyway, This was the point I was trying to make...2x the amount of BW lugers exist now than during the war..
 
mauser99 said:
To his credit or not ? the word salad he lays down depending on how its interpreted he's saying the grips were replaced but, no mention of by who or when ? This is the grey area in these listings. Being a K block the grips that were on it may have been correct ? I have seen a K block with correct period numbered grips .

Anyway, This was the point I was trying to make...2x the amount of BW lugers exist now than during the war..
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I noticed that to, “it has a pair of black widow grips”. I had a beautiful k block with numbered grips I sold a couple years ago to fund a STEN that I have since sold. Really wish I had kept that, I would argue they’re a rarer gun and prettier in my opinion.
 
Back in the 90's older Luger Collectors I was friendly with and talked to at shows and get togethers said Ralph Shattuck, a controversial but now deceased collector\dealer, went to Germany in the 60's and bought up a large quantity of the "Black Widow" grips from the manufacturer and brought them back and started the swapping grips on his inventory and creating buzz about them to raise the price. I think Tom Johnson used to do the same with Dagger manufacturers at that time, buying up old inventory they had and reselling?? I have no idea if the story is true or not but I mention because I heard Tom and Legacy disposed of large parts of Ralph Shattuck's collection and inventory in the past few years, and it does seem as though Legacy has had more Black Widows for sale recently than even Simpson's. Anything late 41 or 42 you can call in the "Black Widow" range, it's the gray area Mauser99 mentioned, if you swap the grips you can always say it's still correct, you just get way more money for it, and dealers are about making money not improving the hobby.

nick
 
"Fitted with a pair of period-correct grips." Just left out the part that they were fitted last week. Caught red-handed.

The story about Shattuck sourcing replacement grips back in 60s is interesting. I hadn't heard it, but it is believable and would help explain the increased number of these variations. One of the things that makes authenticating the bakelite grips difficult is that there are at least six known variations. Add in 50-plus-year old reproductions and some very good newer ones, and it's a real minefield.
 
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DWM1915 said:
Back in the 90's older Luger Collectors I was friendly with and talked to at shows and get togethers said Ralph Shattuck, a controversial but now deceased collector\dealer, went to Germany in the 60's and bought up a large quantity of the "Black Widow" grips from the manufacturer and brought them back and started the swapping grips on his inventory and creating buzz about them to raise the price. I think Tom Johnson used to do the same with Dagger manufacturers at that time, buying up old inventory they had and reselling?? I have no idea if the story is true or not but I mention because I heard Tom and Legacy disposed of large parts of Ralph Shattuck's collection and inventory in the past few years, and it does seem as though Legacy has had more Black Widows for sale recently than even Simpson's. Anything late 41 or 42 you can call in the "Black Widow" range, it's the gray area Mauser99 mentioned, if you swap the grips you can always say it's still correct, you just get way more money for it, and dealers are about making money not improving the hobby.

nick
Click to expand...

Thank you Nick!
 
fishermankw said:
About a month or so ago I sold a few pistols to Legacy, offered me way more than I thought was market value so I let them go. Was perusing gun broker tonight and came across a “Black Widow” Luger that at first glance seemed familiar, so I clicked on it. Low and behold there was the Luger I sold them, only when I sold it to them it had armorer replacement wooden grips… Laughable

Click to expand...

Thank you Fisherman. OP was updated with serial and auction screenshot. Lots of good info coming out on the Black Widow thing.
 
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fishermankw said:
I didn’t know they carried the reputation, truthfully had I known I wouldn’t have sold them anything. A guy I know said they seemed desperate for inventory and overpaying to get WWII firearms, which I would agree with based on what they paid for the items they bought from me. That being said I’m done selling to them. Clearly altering for a higher profit isn’t over them, that’s bar business.
Click to expand...

I fell for it too years ago. He bought a Type 94 with holster and cleaning rod from me. Very shortly after, it was for sale over at scotty's site for a ton more with the holster and rod sold separately. I decided then and there that my minimum selling price to either of those dirt bags was $1,000,000.
 
fishermankw said:
Here’s her “before” picture!
Click to expand...

So this dude who claims in his "Black Widow" infommercial that he won't even change out a loading tool from a holster swaps the magazine and grips and essentially commits historical vandalism of a factory original piece for a huge markup? Is that a bit douchenozzle in addition to guncarnie? Just my question and humble opinion.
 
I've heard both good and bad things about Tom Whiteman. I've heard people say, he's a good guy and other say the opposite.... Seems like with this case he's a bit shady and that his main goal is the money, not the hobby.
 
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