WW1 Oberndorf Gew 98 Sniper Rifle Research

[Absolut]

Looks like they also bent the bolt.

 

[Loewe]

The best!

I can't say more than the pictures and the date they were "poached", though I am on my old computer and my full database is not available at the moment. It may have more information and if it was sold or discussed since 2014 it would be on the newer computer. When I get a chance I will check my back up files and see if more information is available, - odds are good there isn't more information.

There has been considerable discussion on these MO/17 n-block snipers, Wolfgang has participated in every one, and the threads are probably on this forum (Imperial or sniper) and probably on Gunboards-Mauser, it might be worth running them down. As I recall several theories were put forward on the back ground of these rifles.

Yes, He has been great, yes that is it. I was just wondering who owned it before.

It is now in restored condition. Somebody put a lot of effort into it. It has sling and great scope. The bore is mint. If the rain stops, I will have chance to test it at the range.

Pat

 

[Loewe]

BTW, if you get the opportunity, pictures of the barrel code (under the stock) and the right side of the stock, the acceptance under the cypher, would be helpful.

 

[Waffentag]

Stock

Does this photo of the stock give you what you need? Exactly where is the barrel code, can I just take off the handguard or do I need to take off the stock?

Also, did you see my other post on a sniper stock that I picked up, not sure what maker this would be?

http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread.php?23904-GEW-98-stock-bases-bolt-from-local-gunsmith-SN-4680


Pat

BTW, if you get the opportunity, pictures of the barrel code (under the stock) and the right side of the stock, the acceptance under the cypher, would be helpful.

 

[Loewe]

To determine stock makers one would have to see the acceptance patterns (if the metal is unavailable). If the stock is a G98 stock, with a cutout, it could be either sniper or radfahrergewehr, but you do not show the sling arrangement. Either way, JP Sauer didn't make snipers or radfahrergewehrs, only the arsenals made either. The Mauser you have is the only known exceptions to this rule.

Really the thread you link too doesn't show enough detail to tell what you have, probably why no one commented, but acceptance is the key to any identification. And even with it usually it is guessing based upon research, which is limited in scale and scope, - generally only the war time makers can be identified by acceptance patterns, pre-war is too erratic to nail down makers by acceptance alone (usually, with some exceptions)

 

[Waffentag]

Sniper stock in other thread,

Rogers that, sorry for the quality, I took the photos with my iPhone, I posted some more in the other thread. I think that it was a sniper since the bases have the same serial number as the stock,

Pat

To determine stock makers one would have to see the acceptance patterns (if the metal is unavailable). If the stock is a G98 stock, with a cutout, it could be either sniper or radfahrergewehr, but you do not show the sling arrangement. Either way, JP Sauer didn't make snipers or radfahrergewehrs, only the arsenals made either. The Mauser you have is the only known exceptions to this rule.

Really the thread you link too doesn't show enough detail to tell what you have, probably why no one commented, but acceptance is the key to any identification. And even with it usually it is guessing based upon research, which is limited in scale and scope, - generally only the war time makers can be identified by acceptance patterns, pre-war is too erratic to nail down makers by acceptance alone (usually, with some exceptions)

 

[Waffentag]

Photos as requested of GEW98 SN 8364

Here are some more photos, it seems to be all matching but for the bolt and cleaning rod.

BTW, if you get the opportunity, pictures of the barrel code (under the stock) and the right side of the stock, the acceptance under the cypher, would be helpful.

 

[Waffentag]

Photos as requested of GEW98 SN 8364

Seems all matching but the bolt, I noticed the import mark,

 

[Loewe]

Yes, i agree it is original and matching except for the bolt. Thanks for the extra pictures!

 

[Amberg]

2452n, matching stock with no cut out.
I still have no idea what scope/mount combination was used with these M/O snipers. ;-(

http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=6616118

PS: Anybody out there with a late war n-block scope?

 

[Amberg]

I only have one photo showing a sniper from that theater of war.
It clearly shows a Voigtlaender 3x scope and a rifle with bent bolt and no cut out.

 

[ncreptile]

6585N
Has the front/rear base. Cannot find a serial on the base(it's likely underneath but as the screws are labeled 1 2 3 4 and appear to be unmessed with, I don't want to remove to find out.
Century import.
Straight bolt, mostly mismatch but the rear sight and bolt release match. Unsure about the stock as it's been heavily sanded by the Turks.

 

[620ie]

Hello, i found this old post and thought i'd add my gew 98, i bought around 1992 and there were 4 other rifles of this type in the shop, 2 with Turkish stamps

 

[Absolut]

Hello, i found this old post and thought i'd add my gew 98, i bought around 1992 and there were 4 other rifles of this type in the shop, 2 with Turkish stamps

I noticed the rifle has German firing proofs. This interestingly indicates that these (former) sniper rifles are not exclusive to US, but ended up all over the world.

BTW, just to have it mentioned: the fact that there is no Turkish half moon present on the receiver of these rifles indicates that the bases were present at the time the half moon stamp was applied to the rifles.

 

[Loewe]

I do not know when the first use of crescent occurred, but in trends I have no record a single case until the a-block of 1918, - not saying they do no exist earlier but the first I saw in trends in a uniform pattern begin in WMO/18 and WMO trends are fairly complete. Could be I overlooked this feature but in 1918 they are commonly recorded and in 1916-1917 I typically note no crescent (but record other Turk contract traits common to Turks, -import marks Turk applied suffix-prefix... )

On another note years ago I speculated maybe the crescent was applied by Spandau (origin of contract shipment) though I have found no proof either way but f-g block of 1918 seem to suggest this strongly (if you want to know what is rare it probably is a WMO/18 in h-t blocks...

Anyway WMO/17 n-block turks are not rare in observations (Imperial German original is, Interwar are more common, but clearly more ended in the smelters than all the variations combined, but that is universally true of all the makers):


1917 WMO 159 n – (C/R C/W C/W) (polished)(Turk-W prefix-no crescent)

1917 WMO 567 n – (C/R C/W C/W) (Turk-sniper-no crescent)

1917 WMO 1080 n – C/R C/W C/W (Turk importer mark-sniper- no crescent)

1917 WMO 1402 n – C/R C/W C/W (Turk sniper-no crescent)

1917 WMO 1916 n – (C/R C/W C/W) (Turk sniper-no crescent)

1917 WMO 2096 n – (report-no mention of optics)

1917 WMO 2106 n – (C/R C/W C/W) (Turk sniper-no crescent)

1917 WMO 2452 n – C/R C/W C/W (matching Turk sniper-no crescent)

1917 WMO 2533 n – C/R C/W C/W (Turk sniper-no crescent- N prefix)

1917 WMO 2897 n – C/R C/W C/W (matching Turk sniper-no crescent)

1917 WMO 3735 n – C/R C/W C/W (matching Turk sniper-no crescent- D prefix)

1917 WMO 3781 n – C/R C/W C/W (matching Turk sniper-no crescent)

1917 WMO 4220 n – C/R C/W C/W (matching German) (BS 856 / C/W x3) (bolt C/W / FP / C/R?)

1917 WMO 4424 n – (C/R C/W C/W) (Turk sniper-no crescent)

1917 WMO 4648 n – (report-Turk sniper, matched stock)

1917 WMO 5021 n – C/R C/W C/W (matching German) (BS 853 / C/W x3)

1917 WMO 5115 n – C/R C/W C/W (Turk sniper-no crescent)

1917 WMO 5740 n – C/R C/W C/W (Turk sniper-no crescent)

1917 WMO 6302 n – C/R C/W C/W (Turk sniper-no crescent)

1917 WMO 6585 n – RR- n/a (Turk sniper-no crescent)

1917 WMO 6989 n – C/R C/W C/W (matching Turk sniper-no crescent- JJ prefix)

1917 WMO 7134 n – C/R C/W C/W (BS 847 / C/Wx3) (matching Turk- not sniper-no crescent- E suffix)

1917 WMO 7381 n – C/R C/W C/W

1917 WMO 8316 n – C/R C/W C/W

1917 WMO 8364 n – C/R C/W C/W (BS 847 / C/Wx3) (matching Turk sniper-import marked-no crescent)

1917 WMO 9179 n – C/R C/W C/W (BS 868 / C/W x3) (Turk sniper-import marked-no crescent)

 

[Loewe]

Side note the first WMO with signs of Turk lineage is :
1915 WMO 4005 n – C/W C/G C/G (Turkish importer marking-u prefix)

1916 k-blocks are where they start in some number...

Lets see some more patterns that support, further or belie this start.