Third Party Press

SS Contract and Single Rune serial study

T/A there are more Waa codes for bnz codes guns other then Radom Waa77/Steyr Waa 623. Some of the odd ball handstamped receivers do some wild things...a lot are simply not marked when you talking contract/single rune or handstamped.

That is some old info--but I will dig into soon and reply here.

Here are some more that I had out today...more to come...

RC
bnz
43
6678 (rcr)
single rune
Waa77 marked receiver
bnz 1 in the shield
AT barrel code
V7 in a circle rear bridge marked.
--------------------------------

bnz.
43
7423 (rcr)
single rune
m/m non import
bullseye marked barrel
RU coded
--------------------------------

RC
bnz
43
8261 (rcr)
single rune
Bo marked barrel
------------------------------

RC
bnz --handstamped
4 (ie 1944)
Waa359 marked receiver
1107 M on the barrel
bnz 1 within the shield Waa623 marked barrel
DQ marked
---------------------------------

RC
bnz
43
5949 (rcr)
sszza4 barrel marking 1/2 under the wood on the right side
bullseye marked barrel
DEW marked
-----------------------------------

RC
bnz
43
5596 (rcr)
AH marked barrel
V7 in a circle on rr of reciever bridge side



Also may I add that there are actually 3 different size bnz markings....

bnz. what I call small...most of the regular Waa623 marked receivers

bnz (without period) what I call mid sized--it is slightly bigger

BNZ (all capital letters) is what I call big--seen on 44 dated rifles

hope this helps....note non of the above are Waa marked unless noted anywhere on the reveiver.

BAF
 
I have yet to figure it out- I've only spent minimal time on that due to working on the current book.
 
To me, it still comes down to who made the receiver:

E/77 Radom (most common IMO)
E/623 Steyr (also un-marked)
1 Astrafawerke (not so common and I don't think contract.)

Did Steyr slow receiver production in '43?



...
 
Turbo Archie said:
To me, it still comes down to who made the receiver:

E/77 Radom (most common IMO)
E/623 Steyr (also un-marked)
1 Astrafawerke (not so common and I don't think contract.)

Did Steyr slow receiver production in '43?



...
Click to expand...

I don't know who was the manufacture of many of the unmarked receivers(I can assume--but)...I am expecially talking SR/contract pieces---I simply don't see these odd ball variations on regular production pieces as often(bnz stuff)--ie; any letter code guns.

Are you under the assumption that the single rune was marked at the time of the receiver letter/year markings upon manufacture of the receiver?....or upon final assembly--and if so assembled where?--Now that would tell ya' where/who did the assembly--or a closer assumption.....I'm looking toward the end of assembly--hence the variations that dont fit the manufacture of the receiver....plus there are so many different varieties of Waa77 marked/Waa623 marked/Unmarked receivers/Waa359---and most do fit the manufacture--some simply don't--like I said I'll dig out some old work I did--may take me a few days though...

If you think I'm off base here--let me know..but I don't think other then "close" barrel codes these contract pieces--there are no definate black/white pattern--just when you think you figured it out--I see another example...urg...

BAF
 
Last edited:
Barf,

I'm not an expert on the subject so I can't say if you have it right or wrong, I'm just interested in figuring out how it all went down.
Farb isn't going to focus on this until he has to for Vol. 2 so in the mean time I'm going to throw stuff against the wall and see if any of it sticks..

I just spent 8 hrs on a Sunday going through all my contract guns and just staring at farbs list..

To me, its easy to pick out a Radom receiver over a Steyr receiver. If its not marked, its Steyr. It was a few weeks ago so I don't remember if I found an un-marked Radom but I don't think so, I'll have to check my notes at home.

The only way it makes any sense to me is if heavy politics come into play. It seems like Steyr slowed receiver production down to maybe just supping the contract line in '43 and relying on Radom to supply the bulk of army production until that supply was cut off.

In comes the salvaged/armorer receivers as a stop gap until Steyr can ramp up receiver production again and finish the war.


I also think that the rune was applied when the receiver was made. This could be the inspection but I also think it was to keep those receivers separate from Army production coming from Radom. Kind of like off the books. Runes were also applied to Steyr receivers maybe to keep them separate from army in house or because they were out of spec??

Then they could have used the BNZ44 in lieu of the rune as those were strictly contract receivers.. (I think Farb stated this)

Shortly after this, the whole contract system was shut down and left over contract BNZ44's were put into Army production..


Anyway, you have:

A) Radom receiver with rune or not(most common) (EDIT: As farb states no non-rune contract receivers have been noted)
B) Steyr receiver with rune or not (not so common and these are un-marked) I think they were making them on the side/under the table.
C) 1 Astrafawerke (not so common and I don't think contract.) I don't think anyone has noted a contract version of this receiver?? Maybe too early?? Maybe they didn't get mixed into contract because they were above the table? EDIT: bruce posted a sszza4 with this receiver..


I'll post my contract data when I get a chance. I've also been working on army data because there has to be some type of connection with barrel codes.


Location:

This is the biggest question I have.
1)Where were the contract guns built?
2)At the Steyr factory??
3)Close to the factory??
4)How does the ssZZa4 guns relate to contract guns and where were they built??

Did the contract site get barrels before the factory did? What about receivers?


I don't consider the hand-stamp guns too much other then a stop gap..
Now if a rune shows up on a hand-stamp, this blows my theory out of the water and I've seen them so??


Another question:
I didn't have a bnz43 army with a e/623 receiver. Does anyone have a link to one of those??

Stupid question:
Where any guns built at Radom?
When did production stop at Radom?
I figured they were only supplying parts to Steyr??



And then we have this odd ball:

Can you spot the problem??


attachment.php


..

..
 
Last edited:
I'm with ya' T/A....A lot of questions out there that may only be found with "known" good guns to be able to look at....Soooo much of the documentation was burned and distroyed---it leaves little to go on other then the "end product" sometimes.

My thought are Radom was assembling part of the weapons for the SS, maybe refurbished units???....Even a little of the Radom P35 production showed this SS examples are out there, and I highly doubt P35 production was moved to Steyr mid war for the SS assembled pieces--I don't think it was a stretch that sub-par K98 production in limited supply was being produced at Radom--which ones--hopefully we can find out.....No reason why not--maybe barrel code lots will help with this or receiver codes vs non-marked examples vs odd ball examples....maybe we can dig into the inspector marks on the bottom of the receiver and see if we can come up with anything--that ~may~ help--never done that yet.

"I also think that the rune was applied when the receiver was made. This could be the inspection but I also think it was to keep those receivers separate from Army production coming from Radom. Kind of like off the books. Runes were also applied to Steyr receivers maybe to keep them separate from army in house or because they were out of spec??"

The only problem I have with that is you run into rune produced rifles with a non-rune serial right inbetween, and visa/versa...So my though was, are the rune examples truely pullouts' or rejects from common Steyr production?..If the rune was produced when the receiver was made, then how would the serial number oddities come into play?..AM-PM shifts allowing small blocks of guns???? With that thinking, there should be large lots of serial numbers in a row without oddities..I'm still thinking the rune marked examples where hold-outs, in one form or another from common assembly then marked as such~~and where were they OR when were they assembled??? That is my million dollar questions....At a small assembly facility right out side of Steyr OR Radom to hide from bombings?...Love to have these questions answered...

BAF
 
A quick answer is I don't follow the SN other then rec/brr...

If it doesn't have a rune, its just a Steyr receiver mixed into production..
Early Steyr had a rune (*I think) and was dropped later. Maybe who ever they were hiding from caught on to the rune mark and it was phased out?


I posted Bills gun because I've never seen grinding marks by the year like that. As if it was re-marked. Also the bnz is kind of funky. Could this be one of Steyr's first receiver when they started production back up? Not sure what was removed.. ???

If it is an early one, I'm not sure why it doesn't have a rune unless my early rune theory is wrong..


Someone rent a time machine, we need answers!!


.
 
May have been a ruff' machined piece before finishing--re; reject from normal production lines--and ended up a contract piece...is it Waa marked anywhere?

Or as you say ground/restamped---maybe removing another manufactures stamping/year(ie; instead of the multi-marked receivers)--who knows, although if someone did measurements on the receiver to see how much if any is missing that would help and put us in the right direction on THAT one.


Also may add, the normal oddity of the tail of the Z is "not that bad"....as in new die or repaired die to start production....Normally the Z's tail is mucked' up.

then the "handstamped look" on the bnz 1 shield.....what a odd ball!

BAF
 
I don't think the barrel has much to do with the receiver at this point but I do agree its a sloppy shield..


I also think the tail of the Z could be an attempt at a period??

Fairly sure Bill's receiver is a Steyr.

I also have that rune reclaimed by Mauser and put into '44 production.
That rune was ground hard.. Someone didn't like that mark..

Have you seen a Steyr receiver '43 army gun??



..
 
I HAD: bnz 43, serial 8799 i, barrel code 44 (W in target) RU.

Restored sporter - mostly matching except bolt and triggerguard (that you helped me replace Mike with matching bolt and triggerguard to themselves)
 
Yes, a single e/77 on right receiver, and a e/623 on the top ring

attachment.php
 

Attachments

  • BNZ.jpg
    BNZ.jpg
    274.9 KB · Views: 482
Last edited:
Greetings:

New to posting here.

I have a bnz-43 single rune, Russian capture, serial number 8687. Two lightly struck German eagles on the left side of the receiver but no Waffenamt markings. The barrel is marked on the top with "bb" to the left of a shield with bnz over a 1 inside. To the right is a small Waffenamt, eagle over WaA 623. The left side of the barrel also has a poorly struck German eagle. No other barrel markings except for a small "K" on the bottom of the rear sight mount. I can attach a photo or two if there's interest.

Dale
 
Here are a few pictures. I don't see any markings on the right side of the receiver where Waffenamts are normally found. The German eagle markings are poorly struck so that only the top part of the eagle is seen.

Dale
 

Attachments

  • 001.jpg
    001.jpg
    117 KB · Views: 212
  • 002.jpg
    002.jpg
    137.7 KB · Views: 158
  • 003.jpg
    003.jpg
    113.9 KB · Views: 135
  • 004.jpg
    004.jpg
    125.3 KB · Views: 140
I didn't see the circle v/7 marking...

Yeah, I'm not that excited about the rune either. It appears to my inexperienced eye that it's an original lightly struck rune (like the rest of the lightly struck markings) but maybe someone tried to define/enhance the top portion. I could be wrong.

Dale
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Military Rifle Journal
Back
Top