RESEARCH PROJECT - Mod. 71 and Mod. 71/84 - Craig Brown

[Loewe]

Thanks tsmgguy, I added it to the study. I do not know a great deal about these either, only what is in the books most of us have, - you should think about getting Storz book on the subject if it does become a fascination. The book is far more than a dry study on the rifles, the books goes into great detail about the history and men/companies behind them. It is far superior to his Modell98 book, and probably better than his Modell88 book. The translations are certainly better... personally I think they used google translates for the first book (Modell98), it has a deplorable translation, which is unjustified because many Germans are highly skilled in English, - probably the only good thing to come out of WWII.

For the data base:

Spandau I.G. Mod 71/84, 1887, sn. 1085.

This rifle seems to be unit marked on the top tang of the butt plate. These markings read:

24. R.E.
2.56.

I know little about these rifles and bought this one because of its original excellent, unissued new condition. I don't think that it's ever been disassembled or fired. All serial numbers match, down to the bolt heads.

 

[PJ1946]

Paul, For the data base my K 71

K Mod 71
1876/1877
OETERR WAFFFBGES
Serial 7329D
Insp 11
All Matching
Unit mark on Tang - 19 U.5.69

Best Regards Pete

 

[Loewe]

Thanks Pete, I added it!

Paul, For the data base my K 71

K Mod 71
1876/1877
OETERR WAFFFBGES
Serial 7329D
Insp 11
All Matching
Unit mark on Tang - 19 U.5.69

Best Regards Pete

 

[UVF Gew.98]

Here are mine:

I had pictures, so thought I may as well add them with the information



From top to bottom

- Shrapnel damaged Spandau 71/84, 1886 dated, unit marked '111.R.R. 278.' (111th Regiment Recruiting depot 278?). Note butt plate does match, but didn't show up in image well. Matching with the exception of bolt head and extractor.



- Possibly shrapnel damaged Spandau 71/84, matching except for magazine tube, 1886 dated, unit marked 137.R.10.177. Butt plate also marked with '4' and 'M'



- Amberg 71/84, dated 1887, unit marked B1R 15.133. Matching, with the exception of the magazine cut off switch and spring.



Danzig 71/84, dated 1887, unit marked 50 RR 467, matching apart from magazine cut off switch.



- 'Mystery' 71/84. None of the usual markings present - flat on receiver where the model designation may have once been. All matching numbers.

pictures continued in next post

 

[UVF Gew.98]

----note----

this isn't simply a 'sanitised' 71/84, as not all of the parts are interchangeable. The stock is not interchangeable either way with a regular 71/84 and the proportions of the magazine cut off switch are larger.

 

[Loewe]

Thanks fro taking the time to do these, all excellent reports! I wish Craig were available to give his thoughts on the last one, not sure what to make of it? There are no military acceptance whatsoever? No indication of maker or purpose? I see the English name, BROWN on the stock, but no other markings that may offer clues?

I have added the two i didn't already add, but can you determine the suffix on the Danzig, the angles are not straight on and I wasn't 100% on it. It looks like a "g" or "q" (the q looks like another q-block, so i went with that originally), though the bolt could almost pass for an r suffix. Just your interpretation is fine, no need to haul it out for more pictures.

 

[UVF Gew.98]

I think that is a 'q' on the Danzig....some better images for your consideration:



I haven't been able to find another like the 'mystery' 71/84 - though there must be a few more out there judging by the serial number...

To me, the rifle feels like a Boer War period bring back - because Boer rifles were frequently initialled, and some also marked by the soldier who captured it (I have a Boer issue M1896, which has the Boer owners name scrawled on it - then impressed with a pencil 'D.S.BROWN RSF V VI 00' - presumably the soldiers name, regiment and date he captured it (5th June 1900 - battle of Pretoria), though I have yet to fully research it).

Here are a few pictures - if you would like to know anything about this rifle just let me know. Look closely, the markings are very hard to see...!



The Boers had sanitised Spanish contract Mausers amongst other models too.

I will take the rifle apart, along with the Danzig, Amberg and Spandau and make a report on the similarities and differences of all three.

I feel this rifle could possibly be made post production using surplus parts to fulfil a contract quickly and cheaply?? Presumably not German arsenal built, maybe a smaller company? Apart from the flat on the receiver there is no trace of any other markings being removed.

 

[Loewe]

I think your assessment on the "q" is good. I will stick with it.

I also think your Boer war theory plausible, better than anything I can come up with, but the Boer war is not a subject i am well versed in unfortunately. It was a favored topic for John Wall, but his loss is a profound loss to the forums, Gunboards-Mauser especially. There might be something in Storz book on the M71 & M71/84, but I haven't really gone back to it since Craig passed, - it was incredibly helpful keeping up with him, but I kind of have been distracted since our discussions ended about the M71. The forums won't be the same without them, to tell the truth, all of this forum stuff has been boring without their presence. They always came up with good stuff! If not for Jon Speed and BobT, I could close off my email account... all it is these days is a tedious distraction for the most part.

 

[UVF Gew.98]

Indeed - an inspiration and a huge help to many collectors. You are helping to keep alive something they dedicated a lot to, and for that I am sure they will be very greatful. As am I, and all of the collectors who will read these posts

 

[UVF Gew.98]

Loewe, I gathered up my 1871's today for you to add.



From top to bottom

- Amberg, serial number 4824. Dated 87.1888. Unit marked B.2.A.F.10.4. - Replacement rear sling swivel, one trigger guard screw, bolt stop screw and washer.
- OWG, serial number 7752i. Dated 1874. Unit marked 4.R.2.231. - All matching numbers, but with one unmarked screw.
- Erfurt, serial number 913E. Dated 1875. Unit marked (I think) 1.G.L.R.L.2.220. Replacement bolt assembly, and both rear sight leaves.


I have a couple of anomalies with the Amberg and the OWG and that might be noted.

The Amberg has J.G. M/71 marked in bold font on the receiver.

The OWG has an additional inspectors mark on the receiver and the barrel (appears to have been added at a later date). It also features a cast trigger guard, which is original to the rifle.

 

[UVF Gew.98]

Here is the Amberg detailed:

 

[UVF Gew.98]

And here is the OWG:



Extra inspectors mark:

Cast trigger guard:

 

[UVF Gew.98]

Here is the Erfurt:




Rifle appears to have taken a substantial hit from something at some point - this impact probably also split the wrist, as the crack isn't the way the wrist would usually fail from recoil:



Replacement bolt has ball drilled and tapped (left hand shooter adding addition to bolt?) and bolt body partially drilled - presumably realised that nothing can be attached to this point once he started drilling?

 

[Loewe]

Excellent report UVF! I agree, I think John and Craig would approve and Craig welcome the continuation of the studies he inspired. I hope so anyway.

I added the three IG71's, the Erfurt was especially welcome as so few have been recorded so far. I changed a couple things, I am pretty sure the Amberg is an 1883-87 and I added the possibility the Erfurt unit is "G.L.R.E" though left your original report because you have it in hand and unit markings are not my strong suit. Craig would have known for sure. But perhaps Jeff Noll or Wolfgang could give their thoughts. Or others, I just am not very good deciphering them if they are not simple or in Jeff Noll's or Görtz-Bryan's book.

Anyway, in time I think we will get somewhere here. I add to this study a couple times a week and so little is known about this subject (makers-dates-ranges-acceptance/unit patterns), outside of Storz book (which is excellent, much better than his G98 book), it is one of the more promising research threads I have seen. Just wish Craig had had the time to finish each variations outline, but he did do many of them. When I get more familiar with them, I will try and mimic his pattern for the rest.

Loewe, I gathered up my 1871's today for you to add.

View attachment 120060

From top to bottom

- Amberg, serial number 4824. Dated 87.1888. Unit marked B.2.A.F.10.4. - Replacement rear sling swivel, one trigger guard screw, bolt stop screw and washer.
- OWG, serial number 7752i. Dated 1874. Unit marked 4.R.2.231. - All matching numbers, but with one unmarked screw.
- Erfurt, serial number 913E. Dated 1875. Unit marked (I think) 1.G.L.R.L.2.220. Replacement bolt assembly, and both rear sight leaves.


I have a couple of anomalies with the Amberg and the OWG and that might be noted.

The Amberg has J.G. M/71 marked in bold font on the receiver.

The OWG has an additional inspectors mark on the receiver and the barrel (appears to have been added at a later date). It also features a cast trigger guard, which is original to the rifle.

 

[BATANGUENO]

Hello, here are my black powder Imperial German guns;

ERFURT mod.IG 71

serial number 8274 all matching numbers on every part...
dated 83.1883

unit mark 4.G.G.R.E.2.106

ERFURT Gew.71/84

Serial Number 152 not matching numbers at all ....

Unit 121 L II 4 146

regards Bat

 

[Loewe]

Thanks Bat, does the 71/84 have a date?

View attachment 120151

Hello, here are my black powder Imperial German guns;

ERFURT mod.IG 71

serial number 8274 all matching numbers on every part...
dated 83.1883

unit mark 4.G.G.R.E.2.106

ERFURT Gew.71/84

Serial Number 152 not matching numbers at all ....

Unit 121 L II 4 146

regards Bat

 

[BATANGUENO]

Thanks Bat, does the 71/84 have a date?

sorry Loewe ....date of fabrication 1888

greetings Bat

 

[UVF Gew.98]

Thanks Loewe, an 1883 date on the 71 would make more sense! 1888 would be a late date on a 71/84!

I will have a better look at the date and the unit mark (I need to find my glasses!).

I am restoring the Erfurt and will make a thread about it soon - I managed to find a good few parts recently

 

[Camaguey]

#39

Loewe: 71/84 SPANDAU dated 1888, Ser. No. 7974

 

[Loewe]

Thanks, I added it, - if it has a unit marking let me know (and location if so)

Loewe: 71/84 SPANDAU dated 1888, Ser. No. 7974