tjg79
Senior Member
It's too late. He's already earned the title. His basic tactic is to hijack a thread to use as a soapbox and then shift the topic with an ad hominem attack. Spoof is an angry troll.
Questionable Camos
- Thread starter M45
- Start date
It's too late. He's already earned the title. His basic tactic is to hijack a thread to use as a soapbox and then shift the topic with an ad hominem attack. Spoof is an angry troll.
NS 68 M42. Fake interior and exterior paint and decal. Fitted with original liner and replacement drawstring
If this helmet didn't have the decal or liner fitted I'd have sworn that this was 100% original.It would make a great display piece.This is my favourite one upto now.
I see the market for these and why you're making them. That's fine, some people don't want the 'real deal' as it were. I also appreciate you being open and honest, and sharing them here. I would again like to add though that maybe some more permanent etching (or anything permanent) be added in? The painted signature can be obliterated in seconds, with little/no trace.
Is this something you have/would consider Ruffin?
Thanks again
Is this something you have/would consider Ruffin?
Thanks again
No matter what you did to permanently mark them people would find a way to obliterate it. The truth is deeper than what you see here- Rex is not the first (or last) guy to put his artistic skills on helmets, he's just open about it and showing what's going on behind the curtain. Truth be told by being open he's actually helping the helmet collecting hobby by opening people's eyes to the possibilities of really good fakes.
Ken, since your into "questions", how can this be a "GOB place" if we don't censor? I guess this is a place for GOBs too if they wish to make their points. If you are irritated that we provide a transparent and open forum to allow all positions to be represented then the biggest question of all is why you have a problem with that. We aren't dealers here, we are collectors and this is our hobby which we will freely discuss to learn and help each other. Ruffin is helping. What are you doing?
Not if it a stamp of some kind into the shell, always in the same spot... any attempt to remove it would be seen.
mauser99
Senior Member
An electric pencil would work and would be just as fast as painting REX repaint in that one spot. Just a thought ? Lots of poor saps wouldn't think to fold back the liner and look for REX's mark anyway.
I do feel by studying good fakes it makes it easier to spot real vs fake camos.
I do feel by studying good fakes it makes it easier to spot real vs fake camos.
I agree. But what would be wrong with putting this permanent marking in plain view on the inside skirt?? Any collector value is lost in the first place, so the addition of permanent stampings/markings to identify it's 'maker' won't harm anything - well, only those looking to sell it later as original
As an addition to your last point, just studying original camo gear in-hand is IMO the best way to tell other originals. That's not just helmets, but camo field equipment too.
My opinions:
The German helmet collecting hobby, sadly, is in decline. The GOBs and their forum "stewards" are proving that situational ethics, greed, censorship, and corruption are a slow death sentence for a hobby. These arrogant avaricious baboons have been in the tree grooming each other while sawing on the limb upon which they all sit thinking that they'll not get through it before they cash out. It's a race to the bottom.
XRFacts and DougB's Great Champagne Rune Fraud revelations and how many in the hobby responded to it should be a clear indication to every rational person that dishonesty and forum abuse over the last 20 years has contaminated, and is close to ruining, the hobby of German helmet collecting. I think there are bright spots. There are many good people involved in the hobby and GWH2 has a strong chance of turning things around a bit. Beyond that, I don't see much.
Contrast that with K98k/German firearm collecting. I see it as vibrant. We've got many younger guys here (20s-30s) who are taking the handoff. Interest is strong. What's the difference? What do you think Ken? You're a dealer.
mauser99
Senior Member
This is the statement of a person who doesn't want to put the time in. I cant argue with him. I feel the same way with German awards.
I have no interest in spending 12 years of my life studying them so I can be proficient in them. That's why I have friends in the hobby who are. I have cross trained my close friends in 98's and lids and they have helped me with awards. I still have no interest in acquiring any badges myself but, can at least spot a real badge and pass it along to him.
German helmets are no worse off than the humped up rifles and pistols that litter shows. The fakes are getting harder and harder for dealers to pass off as real.
In this info age there is really little excuse for buying a fake. Most items can be posted in a matter of minutes and a knowledgeable member can help in making a decision. Getting rushed into a purchase or a deal too good to be true still usually is. BUYER BEWARE still holds true as it did when that statement was made way back when.
As far as prices it may seem nice to have an adjustment now and again. When they were reaching over 5k it just seemed crazy. Now they have seemed to stabilize a bit. A lot has been said and will continue to be said here and elsewhere this discussion is worth the time invested IMHO.
M45
Well-known member
My old Quist M42 collection.
Left to right: slate gray 7-digit lot#, soldier art, black civic with period civic liner, beaded, Volkssturm with homemade liner/strap.
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Ah, the old "you cannot have an opinion because you haven't proved your knowledge by posting helmets" blither. I know people with huge militaria collections who don't know much; I know people with small militaria collections who know more than anyone else.
Yes, I have considered stampings and grinding as a way to mark helmets and have also experimented with them. What I found is that they can be filled in with wood filler, sanded smooth, and touched up with paint resembling the paint on the shell. In that way the stamping can easily be made to disappear completely and you wouldn't even know it was there. The paint I use covers a much larger area and leaves a mess when removed. This is a much better way to indicate that the helmet is a repaint. No method is completely fool proof but it helps. Regardless, it's best not to rely on a faker to mark his helmets. If one is going to collect helmets, knowledge and ability to spot fakes is the key. That's what this great thread started by M45 is all about.
M45
Well-known member
Item 780 M40 Luftwaffe "Tropical" camouflage helmet
http://www.germanhelmetsinc.com/helmetssale.htm
This helmet comes via an estate auction in South Carolina. It has not yet been in a collection. The helmet is a Q64 M40 Luftwaffe which was painted over in spray with tan camouflage paint. The paint appears to be an earlier non-specific shade of tan rather than the late war applied "ordnance tan" vehicle paint which was generally used as the base coat for camo-patterns during the Normandy period and later. The original factory applied eagle decal is not visible; having been completely covered by the tan spray. The decal which is visible at wearers left is an early re-issue version of the droop-tail eagle which was produced by Gustav Peiniger. Normally it is seen on pre-1940 re-issue helmets and transition helmets. In this case, it was apparently applied in the field after the tan paint had been applied to the helmet. Instances where a decal is applied on top of camouflage paint are very rare and especially so in the later war years such as the Normandy period and after. By every indication; this decal was period applied. The tan camouflage paint remains 95% intact. The liner and strap show good honest wear. The chinstrap is maker marked by a company (Klopper of Berlin) that is a known Luftwaffe leather contractor) You will notice from the photos that the seam in the leather which generally goes down the back of the liner is; in this case towards the front. One of the split-pins shows indications of the prongs having been re-bent indicating that it may have been disassembled at some point since assembly at the factory. As this helmet was acquired from the primary source, it is certain that this was not done by a collector. One can easily see the dust build-up between the shell and liner frame; indicating no disturbance for quite some time. Overall, this helmet has superb display ability. $2850.00
A thoroughly d!cked-with helmet IMO. The liner is screwed up, backward, not generally the way Quist did things. Multiple liner band bends show that the liner was out after factory. Someone put new leather on backwards and shoved it back into the shell.
It has that "used but not abused" look to it; heavy rim wear but otherwise well distributed minor wear other than the curved "eyebrow" gash.
A Luft1 bird as a "field reissue" on an M40 ???
-- By every indication; this decal was period applied.
What the hey ???
Decals on top of camo ?? To my knowledge this has not been seen in the real world.
http://www.germanhelmetsinc.com/helmetssale.htm
This helmet comes via an estate auction in South Carolina. It has not yet been in a collection. The helmet is a Q64 M40 Luftwaffe which was painted over in spray with tan camouflage paint. The paint appears to be an earlier non-specific shade of tan rather than the late war applied "ordnance tan" vehicle paint which was generally used as the base coat for camo-patterns during the Normandy period and later. The original factory applied eagle decal is not visible; having been completely covered by the tan spray. The decal which is visible at wearers left is an early re-issue version of the droop-tail eagle which was produced by Gustav Peiniger. Normally it is seen on pre-1940 re-issue helmets and transition helmets. In this case, it was apparently applied in the field after the tan paint had been applied to the helmet. Instances where a decal is applied on top of camouflage paint are very rare and especially so in the later war years such as the Normandy period and after. By every indication; this decal was period applied. The tan camouflage paint remains 95% intact. The liner and strap show good honest wear. The chinstrap is maker marked by a company (Klopper of Berlin) that is a known Luftwaffe leather contractor) You will notice from the photos that the seam in the leather which generally goes down the back of the liner is; in this case towards the front. One of the split-pins shows indications of the prongs having been re-bent indicating that it may have been disassembled at some point since assembly at the factory. As this helmet was acquired from the primary source, it is certain that this was not done by a collector. One can easily see the dust build-up between the shell and liner frame; indicating no disturbance for quite some time. Overall, this helmet has superb display ability. $2850.00
A thoroughly d!cked-with helmet IMO. The liner is screwed up, backward, not generally the way Quist did things. Multiple liner band bends show that the liner was out after factory. Someone put new leather on backwards and shoved it back into the shell.
It has that "used but not abused" look to it; heavy rim wear but otherwise well distributed minor wear other than the curved "eyebrow" gash.
A Luft1 bird as a "field reissue" on an M40 ???
-- By every indication; this decal was period applied.
What the hey ???
Decals on top of camo ?? To my knowledge this has not been seen in the real world.
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M45
Well-known member
779 M40 army camouflage helmet
http://www.germanhelmetsinc.com/helmetssale.htm
This is an ET62 M40 single decal army helmet that has been covered over in a two-color brush-painted camouflage pattern. The camouflage used a coat of ordnance tan paint as a base while the green was applied and sort of blended in. There is no trace of the decal beneath the paint; I just assume one would have been placed there by the factory as it is a fairly early war helmet. Unluckily the liner is a rag and the strap has not faired much better. A nice camo helmet for the price $1275.00
This questionable camo represents the current state of German WWII camo helmet collecting IMO: totally screwed !
Near 100% of camo remaining despite a heavily worn/shot liner. A few chips to the paint to show this one supposedly saw combat. It has that vibrant, bright exotic freshie look. Colors do not even fit a WWII German military theme.
This is the 'new normal' for camo collectors; sold on reputable deal sites and vetted on experienced helmet forums.
http://www.germanhelmetsinc.com/helmetssale.htm
This is an ET62 M40 single decal army helmet that has been covered over in a two-color brush-painted camouflage pattern. The camouflage used a coat of ordnance tan paint as a base while the green was applied and sort of blended in. There is no trace of the decal beneath the paint; I just assume one would have been placed there by the factory as it is a fairly early war helmet. Unluckily the liner is a rag and the strap has not faired much better. A nice camo helmet for the price $1275.00
This questionable camo represents the current state of German WWII camo helmet collecting IMO: totally screwed !
Near 100% of camo remaining despite a heavily worn/shot liner. A few chips to the paint to show this one supposedly saw combat. It has that vibrant, bright exotic freshie look. Colors do not even fit a WWII German military theme.
This is the 'new normal' for camo collectors; sold on reputable deal sites and vetted on experienced helmet forums.
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