PTR44 Semi-Auto MP44
- Thread starter mrfarb
- Start date
GunKraut
Senior Member
Hydraulic press and a rod/plunger. If you don't have a hydraulic press, take it to a Harbor Freight show room and press it out when nobody's watching. You can always tell them "I just wanted to check if the press is stable enough for this kind of work".
sprat
Senior Member
when I changed one out last year, the rod needed to be replaced as did the handle, replacement op rod(NOS) fit fine.
The new charger handle was slightly different than the original, I had to trim the shank of the charger handle with coarse sandpaper and re blue ( rust blue), don't forget to press the edges of the shank, once fitted so it does not come out, like the original
The new charger handle was slightly different than the original, I had to trim the shank of the charger handle with coarse sandpaper and re blue ( rust blue), don't forget to press the edges of the shank, once fitted so it does not come out, like the original
Intruder196
Senior Member
I used to post on that old GK43 forum and remember following the thread on the PTR. It was great reading. I see alot of screen names I remember from back then. Its good to see everyone didnt just simply disappear as I have enjoyed reading your comments.
Waffentag, I have a question for you. You used cast bullets? Where did you find the mold? I have been a reloader since '93 and never got into molding my own because I was always able to find Hornady 125 grain bullets. I havent found any for a long time. But if this is any indication
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/44...23-diameter-125-grain-hollow-point-box-of-100
then I hesitate to shoot this caliber anymore until I can find a source for bullets. Any advice you have on casting these bullets can help.
Waffentag
Senior Member
Lead Cast
Glad to see an old GK43 member found his way here lke I did after some time.
Yes, as noted above, NEI, number 94, I had a six cavity mold made, It casts heavy which helps cycling. Use 32 gas checks,
Works great, shoot the heck out of it!
Pat
Glad to see an old GK43 member found his way here lke I did after some time.
Yes, as noted above, NEI, number 94, I had a six cavity mold made, It casts heavy which helps cycling. Use 32 gas checks,
Works great, shoot the heck out of it!
Pat
For folks looking for replacement op rods, make sure you get one with the charging handle, since the PTR mounting shaft is a very different diameter (smaller) than the original.
Anyone still using an original PTR op rod might want to do some stress relief and check to see if there is a void per this post:
http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread.php?9416-PTR44-Semi-Auto-MP44&p=96413#post96413
Tim
Anyone still using an original PTR op rod might want to do some stress relief and check to see if there is a void per this post:
http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread.php?9416-PTR44-Semi-Auto-MP44&p=96413#post96413
Tim
GunKraut
Senior Member
By George that's it! Here's a photo of mine in full jam, same as yours nearly. It's odd, they have a round cut right in this area which seems to weaken it or allow the bolt enough drop down to eventually do this. Not sure what a permanent fix would be?
Well, I joined the club yesterday.
Jammed right during a shootout. I took it apart and it looked just like the picture above. I already have an original op rod and bolt laying around but the op rod handle is a bit to thick for the receiver slot and the bolt can't be inserted because the wide part of the bottom ridge won't go past the take down pin area.
Curious, I measured the width of the wide end of the bottom ridge on both bolts. The MP44 ridge is 0.045" wider than the PTR ridge! Then I measured the slot at the bottom of both receivers: The PTR has the wider slot! What the F***?
Next I measured the outside width of the bottom of the PTR receiver where the bolt ridge is being guided. Wow, it's the same width compared to an original MP44 receiver. Now why wouldn't the damn MP44 bolt fit into the PTR receiver? Answer: Because someone welded a U shaped insert into the receiver for the take down pin hole where the original MP44 receiver only has a tubular spacer. The U was restricting the width over an 1" length so only the narrower PTR bolt would fit through. Once the narrower PTR bolt made it past the obstacle, it would be flopping around inside a guide channel at least 0.045" too wide. How effin' stupid is that?
I will see what I can do to remove the sides of the U-shaped restriction in order to have an MP44 bolt pass through. The MP44 bolt should run much tighter inside the guide and be less prone to wedging itself inside the bottom cutout. I've read others have reduced the width of the MP44 bolt's bottom ridge to make it fit the PTR receiver. I think that is not the correct way to go about it.
BTW, if this happens to you, remove the gas plug and tap the op rod downwards with a wooden dowel. Pounding on the charging handle is not the right way.
Hey Gunkraut, I think this is an issue from shooting blanks myself. I ended up squeezing my receiver back to spec in that area and it functions fine now, but I haven't shot blanks since and only a few magazines of ammo. Let me know what you eventually do, at this point I just plan on keeping an eye on it as I think you can see the swell before the jamming starts.
Intruder196
Senior Member
That's not an uncommon problem area in the PTR44's. A friend of mine had this exact same jam. The bolt would close freely on an empty or no mag. But once the first shot was fired the bolt would wedge into that area in the photo and nothing except taking the whole thing apart would free it up. I had my tool box with me. We tapped the metal into shape with a hammer and it began working fine. I believe his started with a magazine jam when he was firing blanks. When the blank failed to feed into the chamber it forced the rear of the bolt down hard in this area and dinged the receiver.
GunKraut
Senior Member
In my case, I suspect home made handloads from cut down 30-06 and 8x57 cases are the culprits. I noticed some were chambering kind of hard, probably because I didn't ream the neck wide enough. That may have put undue stress on the lower receiver section and the combination of narrow bolt ridge and wide receiver cutout, especially around the half round cuts, may have made a bad thing worse.
Before I go to town on the receiver by enlarging the U-shaped restriction, I will wait for Pete to chime in.
Before I go to town on the receiver by enlarging the U-shaped restriction, I will wait for Pete to chime in.
another one
It would appear that they put that restriction in the rec. to prevent a original carrier from going into in a PTR. I did examine a PTR once that did not have the restriction. Not difficult to remove with a square file and careful filing.The MP44 carrier has the trip surface on the left side to activate the MP's full auto feature. The PTR carrier does not have that trip area. The PTR bolt is a victim as the lock surface is narrowed as well to pass the restriction. Bolts have nothing to do with FA/semi operation.
That widened area on the rec. bottom shown on the picture is apparently for some extra hammer clearance that's not always needed. On the PTR's I repaired I only milled the slot for minimal clearance after welding in a repair piece without the widened area.
Those worked OK but some may need a bit of added clearance so the hammer does not hang up there.
Good call re the fact that with the narrowed bolt and carrier they can waddle around a bit due to being that bit narrower.
Pete
It would appear that they put that restriction in the rec. to prevent a original carrier from going into in a PTR. I did examine a PTR once that did not have the restriction. Not difficult to remove with a square file and careful filing.The MP44 carrier has the trip surface on the left side to activate the MP's full auto feature. The PTR carrier does not have that trip area. The PTR bolt is a victim as the lock surface is narrowed as well to pass the restriction. Bolts have nothing to do with FA/semi operation.
That widened area on the rec. bottom shown on the picture is apparently for some extra hammer clearance that's not always needed. On the PTR's I repaired I only milled the slot for minimal clearance after welding in a repair piece without the widened area.
Those worked OK but some may need a bit of added clearance so the hammer does not hang up there.
Good call re the fact that with the narrowed bolt and carrier they can waddle around a bit due to being that bit narrower.
Pete
GunKraut
Senior Member
Some progress today. Machined down the root of the original MP44 op rod handle, now the charging handle runs smooth as butter through the receiver slot. Removed the restrictions in the rear of the PTR receiver and the MP44 bolt slides right in. The internals of the PTR receiver are wide enough to accommodate a completely unmodified MP44 bolt. Two battles won, but the war ain't over yet: Today I learned the PTR bolt has a 0.03" deeper cutout for the ejector than the MP44 bolt. Or, in other words, the MP44 bolt hangs up on the ejector because it's too proud. When the bolt hangs up, the tip of the ejector is still about 0.15" ahead of the bolt face. This maybe another feature by the makers of the PTR to prevent installation of an original WW2 bolt. I guess I need some input from Pete in regards to the ejector issue.
I think I'm approaching the finish line, hopefully the bolt will close and headspace OK. If not, I will cross that bridge once I get there.
I think I'm approaching the finish line, hopefully the bolt will close and headspace OK. If not, I will cross that bridge once I get there.
Intruder196
Senior Member
I wonder if the ejector itself is taller than on original. Perhaps you can remove the ejector and replace it with a WW2 one. There are usually a few on gunbroker that are unused. You will have to drill the holes for the pins.
GunKraut
Senior Member
A couple pictures of a wide open MP44 receiver compared against a PTR receiver with width restriction. The tabs on the left and right side of the welded block for the takedown pin are not accidental leftovers from machining. The block was machined purposely with the U-shape in mind and then welded into the back of the PTR receiver.
Modifying original MP44 parts to fit the buggered up PTR receiver in the process of "upgrading" the rifle voids the benefits of using MP44 parts in the first place.
Modifying original MP44 parts to fit the buggered up PTR receiver in the process of "upgrading" the rifle voids the benefits of using MP44 parts in the first place.
ejector?
Ejector interference is not anything I have found in either of 2 PTR's I put MP44 parts in. But if yours sits high it sits high. I made a ejector for the gun I put together using a PTR rec. I got from Recon a few years back. The one that was in it was not tall enough. I ended up using the ejector out of the PTR rec. in a gun I just built using a prototype new made rec. block and bad torched sheet metal I pieced together. Works fine.
Could you reach in and file off enough to clear the bolt?
I do not know what the PTR makers would have been trying to do if they made the bolt or ejector to oddball dimensions as the bolt has nothing to do with SA/FA function.
Pete
Ejector interference is not anything I have found in either of 2 PTR's I put MP44 parts in. But if yours sits high it sits high. I made a ejector for the gun I put together using a PTR rec. I got from Recon a few years back. The one that was in it was not tall enough. I ended up using the ejector out of the PTR rec. in a gun I just built using a prototype new made rec. block and bad torched sheet metal I pieced together. Works fine.
Could you reach in and file off enough to clear the bolt?
I do not know what the PTR makers would have been trying to do if they made the bolt or ejector to oddball dimensions as the bolt has nothing to do with SA/FA function.
Pete
GunKraut
Senior Member
I'll try to get the ejector out of the way by part bending, part filing. Another bothersome discovery is a chipped edge inside the trunnion block. It is the leading edge which the back of the bolt rests against when in battery.
What would Pete do in this situation?
GunKraut
Senior Member
Ahh, I just noticed the chipped edge is not part of the trunnion. It's a separate piece called "Anschlag", a hardened piece of steel keyed into the trunnion and secured with a pin. It looks like after removing the pin, the Anschlag can be driven out from the back with a drift pin.
Would anybody happen to have an "Anschlag" for sale?
Would anybody happen to have an "Anschlag" for sale?
d dAY dOG
Well-known member
Okay. So I took my PTR out to the range last weekend and it ... sorta ... ran okay. I shot standard PPU ammo and some excellent reloads using Hornady reloading data. The problem I kept having was that the bolt and op rod would get jammed inside the receiver. With a slight bump of the cocking handle against the edge of the wooden shooting bench, it would free up again. It jammed like this several more times in the 3 or 4 different magazines I used. I didn't load the magazines past 10 rounds. These are all reproduction magazines and one is even a "BD44" marked magazine I received from Germany. I don't have any original WW2 magazines.
I took the rifle apart to see if anything was broke. I didn't find anything out of place or broken. However, I did find a small burr on the left side of the trigger group part that protrudes upwards into the right side of the receiver (I looked for the name of this part, but couldn't find a name of it anywhere - just pics). That may or may not have contributed to the jamming from what I can tell - but I don't think so. The reason I say that is because, after it jammed, I oiled the bolt and op rod much more generously and worked it back and forth with an empty magazine in the rifle to see if it would bind. After doing this for a while it jammed again with the bolt and op rod locking up inside the receiver the same as before. It appeared to m that it was jamming due to the bolt face not clearing the top of the magazine.
I've known since day one that these rifles had magazine issues or what not, but I've never had major problems with magazines. I was always able to either shoot it well enough with my reproduction magazines just fine OR remedy some of the FTE issues by pushing upward on the magazine while shooting the rifle. A lot of the time those earlier jams would destroy the tip of the brass or bullet. Earlier on, I changed out the extractor and extractor spring and I would still get the occasional FTE or some double feeds, but the brass was no longer mangled - figure that one out. I also bought a new recoil spring (slightly longer), but I don't notice any real difference with it. The concern I have now is the rifle never jammed on me with the bolt and op rod locking up inside until more recently. I don't know if this is due to wear of the receiver (mine shows wear on the bottom behind the magazine well as others do now) or some other part, but its obviously unacceptable. I have only ever shot live ammo thought it - over 1000 rounds.
As I have finally wrapped up some personal stuff in my life (and know my finances) I am now able to get back to my hobbies. I'm willing to try some easy (not gunsmith expertise) fixes if anyone has any suggestions. Although I planned to send this rifle down to Shortfall anyhow to get it worked on properly, I may be able to do "some stuff" to help rule things out if it's not too difficult. Otherwise, I have a date with the post office.
Thanks for everyones imput !
Doug
I took the rifle apart to see if anything was broke. I didn't find anything out of place or broken. However, I did find a small burr on the left side of the trigger group part that protrudes upwards into the right side of the receiver (I looked for the name of this part, but couldn't find a name of it anywhere - just pics). That may or may not have contributed to the jamming from what I can tell - but I don't think so. The reason I say that is because, after it jammed, I oiled the bolt and op rod much more generously and worked it back and forth with an empty magazine in the rifle to see if it would bind. After doing this for a while it jammed again with the bolt and op rod locking up inside the receiver the same as before. It appeared to m that it was jamming due to the bolt face not clearing the top of the magazine.
I've known since day one that these rifles had magazine issues or what not, but I've never had major problems with magazines. I was always able to either shoot it well enough with my reproduction magazines just fine OR remedy some of the FTE issues by pushing upward on the magazine while shooting the rifle. A lot of the time those earlier jams would destroy the tip of the brass or bullet. Earlier on, I changed out the extractor and extractor spring and I would still get the occasional FTE or some double feeds, but the brass was no longer mangled - figure that one out. I also bought a new recoil spring (slightly longer), but I don't notice any real difference with it. The concern I have now is the rifle never jammed on me with the bolt and op rod locking up inside until more recently. I don't know if this is due to wear of the receiver (mine shows wear on the bottom behind the magazine well as others do now) or some other part, but its obviously unacceptable. I have only ever shot live ammo thought it - over 1000 rounds.
As I have finally wrapped up some personal stuff in my life (and know my finances) I am now able to get back to my hobbies. I'm willing to try some easy (not gunsmith expertise) fixes if anyone has any suggestions. Although I planned to send this rifle down to Shortfall anyhow to get it worked on properly, I may be able to do "some stuff" to help rule things out if it's not too difficult. Otherwise, I have a date with the post office.
Thanks for everyones imput !
Doug
Rommel
Well-known member
Pics on #41,#42 page 5
Doug,
Look at "PICS" on #41,#42
Is there anything going on with your rifle in this location?
http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread.php?9416-PTR44-Semi-Auto-MP44/page5
Doug,
Look at "PICS" on #41,#42
Is there anything going on with your rifle in this location?
http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread.php?9416-PTR44-Semi-Auto-MP44/page5