M.40 Heer Normandy Nebelwerfer Unit Helmet
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mauser99
Senior Member
if you study the photo he's actually hand painting on the tricolor or bi color shield. this is a pre war photo and these shields were painted not a decal.. The point being made is seeing all the shells with names and rank is one man typically did this for the unit or company. Each guy didnt do it them selves typically. But, there are and have to be exceptions.
It’s a little before my time re helmets, but his uniform is Reichswehr.
I can’t add much to the history/validity, but I have the skill to paint names in helmets. I did it for my Reenactor unit for a while, 20 years ago. When I did it, I did a bunch at once that all looked nearly the same. As new members joined I did more, sometimes in batches. Those looked similar but I didn’t care as much, and the workmanship suffered if I was hung over or tired.
It’s circumstantial but the point is as new guys join new helmets were named, but unit info was consistently applied like these.
It’s circumstantial but the point is as new guys join new helmets were named, but unit info was consistently applied like these.
Well Farb, that sounds like keeping it real in all respects. With named helmets I was always impressed by German penmanship and neatness particularly as these were enlisted troops. This is skewed by the reality that most of the time, just like camouflage application and overpainting, individual soldiers were not left to this task, it was assigned to those most capable. It beats Latrine duty.
In those days men that had attended school beyond their 14th year would have got calligraphy lessons, clean/nice handwriting was considered necessary for office jobs.
This sounds like Farb admitting he consigned his units helmets! Hahah JK
A bit of topic, but evidence that lightning strikes can happen.
Since this week there are two consecutively numbered P1796LC cavalry sabers in my collection.
The serial numbers are Dutch Army serial numbers from the 1840's, both sabers are battle of Waterloo veterans.
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That’s crazy!! Very cool. Maybe post them on their own in off topic, I’d love to see them
...and perhaps a layer of cool camo paint also?
At least its provenance has been recorded.
So I am the owner of the 4 helmets in question, anyone here disputing the authenticity is absolutely ridiculous...and perhaps a layer of cool camo paint also?
At least its provenance has been recorded.
I got the two from Ken and spent the last few years searching for more. I found one that was posted on https://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/ 11 years earlier and contacted the owner and he still had it. I paid him over what it was worth and waited a year before he agreed to sell it to me, the owner only agreed to sell it to me after seeing the other 2 I had and wanted to keep them together, then I found the French one that’s referenced and set in a correct liner in it for display purposes. I have also found a helmet with 10076 C that a teacher had shown his class but wasn’t able to buy it from him. These were all sourced by myself from different parts of the country from people who never knew each other or had contact with one another so anyone disputing this is full of it. It’s taken years to put the 4 together and there is another one here by the OP that matches my 4 and I’ve never met him before. I tired to buy his but he won’t sell it to me but if he did I would have 5 and then I guess all you conspiracy theorist would say I made them in my moms basement. These were all captured around June 30th 1944 in Cherbourg and taken as souvenirs, as the vets die off and families sell off their stuff they turn up and people like me who search every few weeks 10076 B looking for more eventually you will find them. Not everything is fake and all you guys disputing real stuff kills the value because once the real stuff is considered fake the collecting value is completely gone. If I were to sell my set of 4 I would say that the liner was added to the one and anyone into collecting would know the condition of the liner doesn’t match the condition of the helmet unlike the other 3. I’ll keep looking for more and I know there are at least 3 others out there with 10076B that I’ve tried to buy and haven’t been able to but I’m going to keep looking. Know what you are talking about before going on ridiculous Area 51 type theories about things, and if you have a 10076 B send me a message because I would be interested in adding it to my collection.
M45
Well-known member
To some of us long time collectors, after-factory field modified helmets such as elaborate camos and detailed penned information (beyond just a last name) will nearly always elicit doubt and skepticism. Such doubt is based on decades of collecting since the war where dealers and collectors have repeatedly attempted to rip each other off. One high profile fraud that immediately comes to mind is the Sham-pain-ruin SS saga, a very detailed well thought out scam involving numerous people costing collectors vast amounts of money that was only officially revealed in late 2015. This fraud involved authors, forums, admins, "MENTIONING VETS" and even the "science" of XRFacts.
Asking some of us to accept the trove of Normandy rocket unit marked FPN helmets as genuine with no actual unquestioned vet provenance or official paint testing (to determine the paint contains no modern compounds) is like asking us to accept the existence of big-foot, space aliens and flying saucers with only fuzzy photographs and dubious eye witnesses but no actual conclusive proof. There will always be those who do believe despite the lack of hard evidence because they WANT to believe.
You MENTIONED vets (...as the vets die off and families sell off their stuff...) but provided no actual unquestioned vet provenance. Ken N. MENTIONED vets in his advert selling the two FPNr. helmets, but provided no actual unquestioned vet provenance. BTW: just MENTIONING VETS is not actual unquestioned vet provenance.
There has been TALK of paint testing, but no actual paint testing is ever done.
I have no doubt that things such as very exotic camos and FPNr. Normandy rocket unit helmets existed during the time period, (and a few no doubt exist in collections today) they were few and far between in the collecting world in the previous decades. These recent "treasure-trove" finds of long-lost souvenirs such as extremely elaborate camos in fantastic condition, mint knights crosses or multiple FPNr. marked helmets with same highly desired location/same penmanship can not really be attributed to vets dying off since there is no unquestioned vet provenance with any of them.
Asking some of us to accept the trove of Normandy rocket unit marked FPN helmets as genuine with no actual unquestioned vet provenance or official paint testing (to determine the paint contains no modern compounds) is like asking us to accept the existence of big-foot, space aliens and flying saucers with only fuzzy photographs and dubious eye witnesses but no actual conclusive proof. There will always be those who do believe despite the lack of hard evidence because they WANT to believe.
You MENTIONED vets (...as the vets die off and families sell off their stuff...) but provided no actual unquestioned vet provenance. Ken N. MENTIONED vets in his advert selling the two FPNr. helmets, but provided no actual unquestioned vet provenance. BTW: just MENTIONING VETS is not actual unquestioned vet provenance.
There has been TALK of paint testing, but no actual paint testing is ever done.
I have no doubt that things such as very exotic camos and FPNr. Normandy rocket unit helmets existed during the time period, (and a few no doubt exist in collections today) they were few and far between in the collecting world in the previous decades. These recent "treasure-trove" finds of long-lost souvenirs such as extremely elaborate camos in fantastic condition, mint knights crosses or multiple FPNr. marked helmets with same highly desired location/same penmanship can not really be attributed to vets dying off since there is no unquestioned vet provenance with any of them.
This has already been addressed and debated ad nauseum. The FPN helmet I featured here was bought for no more, and probably less, than a comparable single decal M40 helmet. There was no motivation for fraud. FPN helmets are not rare, not at all. I like them and pick them up and I'm a "long time collector" I reckon, having bought my first German helmet about 41 years ago. If you have familiarity with Cherbourg and the Germans bagged there in large groups, and understand this unit, you can easily see how there would be multiples of this unit and how they got here to the US. I believe I have significantly more experience in this collecting arena than you and many others. I have significantly more examples of these helmets, almost all of which were purchased without any reference whatsoever to the FPN, and certainly no premium.
In short, you don't believe that they are original. I do. Since no amount of reality, facts, and information from this "long time collector" matters, then there is no sense in debating it with you. This has already been done. People here can believe what they want based upon the information here.
In short, you don't believe that they are original. I do. Since no amount of reality, facts, and information from this "long time collector" matters, then there is no sense in debating it with you. This has already been done. People here can believe what they want based upon the information here.
M45
Well-known member
'Belief' does not, nor should not, have anything to do with this. We should be relying on facts to support what is accepted in this hobby. If certain collectors what to accept these as genuine lacking conclusive proof, that, as you said, is their business.
But let us not forget that it was essentially 'belief' that sucked so many into the C-SS debacle. It was only facts that brought us out of it.
But let us not forget that it was essentially 'belief' that sucked so many into the C-SS debacle. It was only facts that brought us out of it.
Far different. Is not an opinion based upon belief? I believe these original. That is my opinion, which is a rather informed one based upon the evidence and my experience, and hands on with the piece. Based upon the history of this unit, where it surrendered, etc., I can easily see how these helmets would have been souvenired and how there would be multiples of it.
M45
Well-known member
Not nebelwerfer related per se, but two helmets with unit marks that appear to match as per penmanship. Authentic or postwar modified ?
Consider how unusual it would be to find two helmets that were in the same unit during the war (but un-related during the postwar years) and finding their way to the same collection.
Now consider how unusual it would be for those same two helmets to have identical penmanship identifying the writer on both helmets to be likely the same person.
Not saying it is impossible, but it would be very very unusual IMO.
Now what if we start finding additional groups of two or more helmets, with each group having identical penmanship ?
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