M.40 Heer Normandy Nebelwerfer Unit Helmet

[Peter U]

Lets wait and see if "SV 44" can shed some light on this issue.
Lets hope he answers, simply because we can't never have enough information.

"Did they see the Kaminski relic helmet in France and copy it? Frankenberger was faked to look like Kaminski and then sold without reference to the unit history for about the same price as without the unit information?"
- This seems very unlikely to me.

Unit marked M35's are nothing really new, in my small helmet collection I have at least two of them, pre war openly marked helmets, that unit information on its own doesn't add much financial value.

 

[M45]

Most of the helmets with unit markings and such that I have seen were usually pre-war M35s, usually Luftwaffe but also some Heer examples. After the war started, this practice seems to have been largely abandoned, likely due to the danger of military intelligence falling into the wrong hands.

I recall having ONE M40 SD Luft helmet with a name rendered in white paint. I also recall seeing an Eastern Front photo with dead German trooper, his helmet laying nearby with the liner facing the camera. That helmet also had a name rendered in white paint. Both helmets' writing were neatly done in Germanic script (I assume the way German children were taught to write at that time).

Names rendered like this in helmets are rarely seen today, I suspect it was due certain units allowing this for only a short time. I base this on seeing written names on helmet skirts mostly under reissue paint (an earlier phenomenon that had been discontinued).

Subsequent naming on helmets was certainly done, but usually seen in pencil or pen (aged to aqua color?) on the inside skirt or on the liner. This could be done in the field without the need for elaborate paint cans and paintbrushes.

The renderings seen on helmets touted to be authentic today are sometimes with odd colors (black/red/yellow) and/or in block script (not Germanic script) and often sloppily done.

 

[Scharf]

Hello!

On his website down the thread where the helmet's displayed, sv44 posted this comment in March 2018 basically saying a US collector contacted him saying he had 2 helmets with the same FPNr. How odd. I don't personally know this guy but I know that within the "baqueville" debates he claimed that he had obtained some KM awards from an old man that picked them up at the time, in other words, a dubious and unproven story. Of course here we're not talking about awards but it just goes to show that there's a history of "that's what I heard, that's what they said" etc. We all know the collecting world does not rely on buying a story but on buying the item. And when the item's not genuine because of X, Y, Z parameters that were pointed out then it prevails over the story. This is off topic but the "way of doing things" is most definitely not. Going back to these helmets I'll have to agree with M45 regarding the typo and the exact features that show up on all 3 helmets. The way it's been written, the punctuation, the format, I just find it hard to believe that 3 helmets share the same traits and so many similarities. It's either a huge coincidence or it's just a hoax and one of those is genuine and was used as a model to recreate some kind of pattern. I'd love to hear what they say about the whole thing.

 

[Hambone]

Most of the helmets with unit markings and such that I have seen were usually pre-war M35s, usually Luftwaffe but also some Heer examples. After the war started, this practice seems to have been largely abandoned, likely due to the danger of military intelligence falling into the wrong hands.

I recall having ONE M40 SD Luft helmet with a name rendered in white paint. I also recall seeing an Eastern Front photo with dead German trooper, his helmet laying nearby with the liner facing the camera. That helmet also had a name rendered in white paint. Both helmets' writing were neatly done in Germanic script (I assume the way German children were taught to write at that time).

Names rendered like this in helmets are rarely seen today, I suspect it was due certain units allowing this for only a short time. I base this on seeing written names on helmet skirts mostly under reissue paint (an earlier phenomenon that had been discontinued).

Subsequent naming on helmets was certainly done, but usually seen in pencil or pen (aged to aqua color?) on the inside skirt or on the liner. This could be done in the field without the need for elaborate paint cans and paintbrushes.

The renderings seen on helmets touted to be authentic today are sometimes with odd colors (black/red/yellow) and/or in block script (not Germanic script) and often sloppily done.

I can state, unequivocally, 100%, that German helmets had names and FPNs painted in the skirts probably until the end. I know this because many of the helmets I have are named and many with FPNs too that did not exist for that unit until say, 1943-1944. Most of the helmets I've got posted here in the pic sticky section have names and FPNs. That's what I look for, I like that. I've never paid "extra" for it. If a helmet is for sale with a name and FPN for less than it would be without a name and FPN, who faked it and why? I presume people go to the trouble of painting names in the skirts of helmets with FPNs in order to make money, not lose money. I can honestly say that I've never bought a named and FPN helmet that was carnival barked with unit information and cost more than the helmet would be had I scrubbed that information out of it.

For example again, this helmet:

M.35 Heer Helmet Utah Beach

M.35 late single decal, finished as the early M.40s with smooth finish feldgrau, EF 66, owned by Feldw. Weise FPN 43676E. Weise was a NCO in the Komp. 12, Stab.III, of the 739th (Fortress) Grenadier-Regt., 709th Inf. Div. which held the northern end of Utah Beach on June 6, 1944. They were...

www.k98kforum.com

That unit fought in 1944. The FPN was not stricken until 1945. I paid less for this helmet than one without the information in the back skirt that the seller did not have a clue about and could have cared less. That is, I could use acetone and a brush and remove that name and FPN in the back and still sell the helmet for about a 50% profit. The FPN Nr. was the system used to ID German units, to keep track of them for mail. It was what was put in helmets to keep up with the soldier and his helmet, like mail. If the soldier misplaced the helmet, with his name and particularly the FPN, it could be returned. This was no different in 1938 as it was in 1945. A helmet was important because it needed to fit properly. Is it logical to assume that German soldiers might lose or misplace helmets? That a soldier may take a smoke break and march off without his helmet attached to his pack? That a helmet may fall off a vehicle? How would it be reunited with the soldier without a FPN?

The primary means of ID in the back skirt was white paint. However, I have them in tan paint, red paint, brown paint, and green paint. I've never paid more for a helmet because of what was in the skirt over the value of the helmet itself. What's in it for the lid humper? Also, many of these have come from people who aren't militaria dealers at all. Why would anyone fake a FPN in a helmet and sell it for less than the helmet itself? Where's the money in that? I've also got helmets with the name painted in the skirt and penned in the liner, in black, or purple.

This helmet, it's got the name in green paint, both of them do. When I paid $600 for it was the label faked, the GI's name faked, the FPN and name in the skirt faked, the German's name in the liner faked? This unit didn't exist under that FPN until 1944.

Name in tan, faked? The name had nothing to do with the helmet, and the price I paid for it was about 1/2 to 1/3 of its value:

M.40 Heer "DAK" EF.62 697

M.40 H "DAK" EF.62 697. Same color as some of my other Afrika Korps attributed helmets, but who knows. Looks like the same color as those in the Time-Life color pics of that surrender pile in Tunisia. Untouched, recent funshow walk in, purportedly from the vet's grandson, but that's a story. Has...

www.k98kforum.com

This helmet, and FPN, faked? Was the name in white and FPN faked? The problem is that the name is in there THREE times under layers of camo paint. Once in black on the original factory color; once in white (I think) with the FPN over the tan and under the camo; and again in big white letters over the camo:

M.40 Luft. DAK Camo, 88 Regt., Named, KIA,

Thanks to member Nzef here. One of my new favorites. M.40 Luft. 64/56 tan and green camo, typical of North Africa, particularly Tunisia. It is named to "Puls". If you look close you can see that before camo it was named to "Kan. Puls" (Kanonier), then evidently mustard/tan overpainted, named...

www.k98kforum.com

Name in white faked in this KIA lid? The name meant nothing because this helmet was given to me, as in I paid nothing for it:

M.40 KIA helmet, bloodstain testing

I picked this helmet up on a trade. It came from a fellow who is a teacher and was given it by the family of one of his students. The helmet was found among the possessions of the student's uncle, who passed away, and who was the WW2 vet who brought it back. The fellow I got it from eventually...

www.k98kforum.com

 

[Hambone]

Hello!

On his website down the thread where the helmet's displayed, sv44 posted this comment in March 2018 basically saying a US collector contacted him saying he had 2 helmets with the same FPNr. How odd. I don't personally know this guy but I know that within the "baqueville" debates he claimed that he had obtained some KM awards from an old man that picked them up at the time, in other words, a dubious and unproven story. Of course here we're not talking about awards but it just goes to show that there's a history of "that's what I heard, that's what they said" etc. We all know the collecting world does not rely on buying a story but on buying the item. And when the item's not genuine because of X, Y, Z parameters that were pointed out then it prevails over the story. This is off topic but the "way of doing things" is most definitely not. Going back to these helmets I'll have to agree with M45 regarding the typo and the exact features that show up on all 3 helmets. The way it's been written, the punctuation, the format, I just find it hard to believe that 3 helmets share the same traits and so many similarities. It's either a huge coincidence or it's just a hoax and one of those is genuine and was used as a model to recreate some kind of pattern. I'd love to hear what they say about the whole thing.

Hello,
Thanks. People generally don't fake things for the sake of faking them. They do so for the money. It is not necessary for someone, even a complete idiot, to wait around to see a FPN helmet to copy the FPN. Doing that reminds me of Marines who would find blank Jap. flags and copy Japanese writing on them to fake a personal flag. When you translate them, the "war slogans" on these flags in Japanese say things like, "fragile" and "Open this End". Why do something like that when even an idiot can find literally thousands of FPNs with identifiable units. Let's look at the two "theories" for these helmets. Please note that this isn't wild a$$ crazy bullshit concocted to explain inconsistencies or problems. To the contrary, this is logic, reason:

Theory I : FPN Humper
So, the theory goes that Ken N. needed to fabricate a FPN, and he somehow found this obscure French blog site with a relic helmet with the FPN of 10067 B in the skirt, and he lied and privately told the French owner that he had two with the same number. Then, he painted this same number on the two helmets, offered them for sale at a big markup because they have matching FPNs, to a fairly small and obscure unit, and he got the unit description wrong? That is, a "mortar unit" is far less sexy than a nebelwerfer unit using rockets mounted on French UE tractors. Then, 8 years later someone faked the same information in the same format with Obk. Frankenberger and the same FPN, but didn't go into any detail about the FPN and sold the helmet for about the same as if it had no such FPN? It's a great job of fakery I may add, as it fooled me and this is one of my collecting areas. The theories that these are humped are that: 1) the seller of the pair was known to have swapped a liner out of a helmet; and 2) the French blog poster told a story once about picking up KM awards from an old man and your opinion is that the story is dubious. Then, of course, we have the facts as we see them. Do the obvious facts support your opinions? In fact, I'd say that it is more likely than not that the existence of the French relic helmet and mine support the authenticity of the two Ken N helmets more than the two Ken N helmets support that the French helmet and mine are faked. I don't see the economic gain or reason in faking the French helmet and Frankenberger. I do see plenty of gain in the $4k price tag for the two Ken N helmets. However, could Ken N, who scours the world for helmets, really have found two helmets with identical FPNs? I've found identical helmets to mine at least 5-10 times, maybe more. I own an identical pair now as I posted supra.

Theory II : Original Souvenir
Or, is a more logical and factually supported explanation something like this: this unit, FPN 10067 B, of about 2000 men or so (artillery regiment), on static defense duty in France from January 1944 to invasion, had their helmets named and marked in a prescribed manner by orders. That makes sense because these units, particularly as they were mechanized, moved around from place to place setting up firing positions and firing missions. That is why they were mechanized. That was the purpose of having rockets on tracked vehicles. They trained like this. On firing missions and training they didn't normally wear helmets but they had them with them. In moving about if you lost your helmet would you want it returned to you and your unit? How would that happen if it merely had "Frankenberger" in it? Or, would it be better to have the unit postal address and the name and rank? (Note: if mail can find you, so can your helmet).

So, let's say these 2000 men of this FPN 10067 B unit fought until they ran out of rockets and their vehicles broke down, ran out of gas, or were destroyed. They were then captured along with 28,000 other German troops in Cherbourg. And what if their helmets were all tossed in a big pile in a field? Cherbourg was captured by Americans, important because it was a port, through which hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions, of American GIs went, back and forth, who were stationed there, construction, engineers, combat, stevedores, Navy, Merchant Marine, everything. Americans souvenired helmets and brought them home during WW2. Many many thousands of them I'd say based upon collecting. I have about 50 of them myself. And let's say of this massive pile of perhaps 1000+ helmets with FPN 10067 B, four of them survived, one stayed in France as a rain soaked relic; and three came back to the US as souvenirs by any one of millions of men who served and went through Cherbourg? And, over the last decade, as a result of the world wide internet, and people doing searches for "FPN 10067" these helmets all became known. Does this sound like some crazy lotto / lightening strike bullshit? I've never won the lottery and never been struck by lightning, but I own two identical camo helmets, from the same unit, discovered over six years apart, brought home by two different vets, one in Mississippi and one in Washington state. I've encountered a number of other "twins" which makes perfect sense. In fact, if I see a camo pattern and I've never seen its twin, I presume that "one of" is a fake.

 

[Peter U]

A humble example of my collection:

M35 WH green overpainted with LW grey

This helmet I recently obtained from forum member Amberg :thumbsup: Like the title says, this helmet started his life as a M35 in WH green later it was overpainted in LW grey, a conversion that isn't often seen. The helmet also has shrapnel damage, the liner is bloodstained, most likely the...

www.k98kforum.com

The named added no value, simply because it is one of the most common names in Germany.

 

[Hambone]

That's a great helmet Peter! Note that the name in the helmet is in there twice: once probably in black on the original early factory color, and again in white over the later, likely 1943 or later, overpaint. Names and FPNs were absolutely not a pre-war thing. It was done from 1935 to 1945.

 

[Peter U]

Some examples of the German Army and concealment of unit information in WW2, their are some serious contradictions.
They removed numbers from shoulderstraps but allowed the use of cufftittles on field uniforms.
They stopped the use of adding unit information in helmets in plain writing such as 14/IR744 and started to use the five digit Fp number instead, but the soldiers kept a Soldbuch in their pocket that contained all the information counterintelligence needed.
The DAK removed all crucial information in the Soldbucher of its men, even the Fp numbers were made unreadable, to prevent the allies of identifying the units, in Europe such a thing was seldomly done.

 

[Peter U]

Now to tackle the use of German script, Sütterlin wasn't used by all Germans in WW2.
Just check the Soldbucher I have posted on this forum, you can see a mix of modern script and Sütterlin in most of them.
This is a good example:

Soldbuch GR78 WIA Bastogne '44

Hello guys, This is a new addition to my Soldbucher collection, a Kriegsmarine example of a soldierthat got wounded in the bulge in 1944. Willy Ratjen (°1926) was drafted in to the army in July ’44; he got his basictraining as a costal artillery gunner with the 2nd Marine Ersatz Abteilung in...

www.k98kforum.com

His name on page 1 is written by the clerck in modern script, the entries on the equipment pages are in Sütterlin, he signed his name in modern script too.

This one too:

Battle of the Bulge Soldbuch - then & now pictures

Hello, This is the Soldbuch of Walter Groth, Walter was born on December 14 1927 in the small farmers village of Ziegnitz in Pommeren (East Prussia), in 1939 there were only 294 inhabitants. He was working as a farhand until July 1944, he was 16 and a half years old and volunteered for the...

www.k98kforum.com

Page 2 information in modern script, his wounded badge in Sütterlin

 

[Hambone]

Now to tackle the use of German script, Sütterlin wasn't used by all Germans in WW2.
Just check the Soldbucher I have posted on this forum, you can see a mix of modern script and Sütterlin in most of them.
This is a good example:

Soldbuch GR78 WIA Bastogne '44

Hello guys, This is a new addition to my Soldbucher collection, a Kriegsmarine example of a soldierthat got wounded in the bulge in 1944. Willy Ratjen (°1926) was drafted in to the army in July ’44; he got his basictraining as a costal artillery gunner with the 2nd Marine Ersatz Abteilung in...

www.k98kforum.com

His name on page 1 is written by the clerck in modern script, the entries on the equipment pages are in Sütterlin, he signed his name in modern script too.

I find that by wartime, names and FPNs in Sutterlin are harder to find. I know, because I search them out. The majority of wartime (particularly post 1942) names and FPNs are in modern German script, not Sutterlin. Names and FPNs in helmets, up to the end of the war, are not rare.

 

[Peter U]

The rule of thumb is the earlier the Soldbuch, the more you'll see Sütterlin script being used by the administration, the later in the war the more modern script you'll see but their are exceptions.
Usually it is a mix.
I'am not a language expert and certainly not one in Sütterlin German but it seems to be used less and less the more you progress in to the 1940's, don't pin me on it but it seems the schools stopped teaching it or at least gave more attention to modern script; the younger the German the more likely it was he used modern script if he had to write something by hand.

 

[M45]

Sütterlinschrift

The name Sütterlin is nowadays often used to refer to all varieties of old German handwriting, although only this specific script was taught in all German schools from 1915 to 1941.

In 1935 the Sütterlin style officially became the only German script taught in schools.

The Nazi Party banned all "broken" blackletter typefaces in 1941 seen as chaotic, including Sütterlin, and replaced them with Latin-type letters like Antiqua. However, many German speakers brought up with this writing system continued to use it well into the post-War period.

Sütterlin - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Hambone]

Hello!

On his website down the thread where the helmet's displayed, sv44 posted this comment in March 2018 basically saying a US collector contacted him saying he had 2 helmets with the same FPNr. How odd. I don't personally know this guy but I know that within the "baqueville" debates he claimed that he had obtained some KM awards from an old man that picked them up at the time, in other words, a dubious and unproven story.

I do not think it odd or suspicious for an American collector (probably the buyer of Ken N's helmets sold in 2017) to contact the French collector and website in 2018 on a post from 2013 telling him he had two helmets with the same FPNr. My email to him basically says the same thing, except that I only have one and invited him here to tell us the origins of his helmet. That's how I found his site, by searching feldpost 10076 B. Ironically, without the internet we would not know that these helmets exist, all identified from 2013 to 2021. I research, so I don't find this odd. We know that there are instances where a number of the same type of helmets were brought back by US GIs. The largest quantity of these were the "boxcar stash" of M42s.

"And yes! There is a sequel! An American collector contacted me a few days ago to tell me that he had in the USA 2 other German helmets with the same feldpost nummer!" 12 march, 2018

FELDPOST NUMMER - Battle of Normandy - Lost in Cherbourg summer 1944 - German Helmet M40

CHERBOURG - Normandy 44 battle relic ! The 1 Battery of Stellungs Werfer Abt.103 which subsequently became the 7 Battery of Stellungs We...

souvenezvous44.blogspot.com

 

[Hambone]

BTW, it is right for M45 and Scharf to question. That's how it works here. Butthurt over our trinkets is less important than solid information and truth.

In short, for me, $4,000 for two common single decal helmets because they have the same FPN is a bit much. Certainly the similarity in font and style is thought provoking. However, the existence of the relic helmet in France and mine for which no premium was paid and no sales pitch on the FPN given, tend to corroborate the authenticity of those two $4k lids. Finding two identical German helmets from the same unit is not a "rare" one of event. Names and FPNs in helmets is not unusual and took place to the end of the war. There is a good reason for it, so a helmet could find its way back to its owner, like mail. We probably don't see it much very late war because the FPN system had broken down in the last 6 months of war and troops and small units were mixed and shuffled around in an ad hoc fashion in kampfgruppes. Still hope the French blogger will appear and post here, he's invited.

 

[M45]

I realize people have strong feelings about these helmets. It has to do with 'collector niches' that many of us have in the hobby. I myself have been drawn to late war production, prototype and unusual helmets. Others have been drawn to the research end using names, unit markings and feldpost information. Others have been drawn to SS or rare helmet insignias such as Chinese or Spanish.

Our successes in our specialized areas have given us 'expert status' so to speak, or knowing more about these areas than the average collector. These specializations are great for the hobby because the average collector will probably not dare to venture out there due to lack of confidence, but also there are those who will dare to venture out and pass this vital information on to the rest of us therefore growing the hobby.

Our specialties are both our strengths and our weaknesses because our desires for these difficult to find pieces makes us more vulnerable to accepting something most of us would shy away from.

Whatever we are drawn to in the hobby, there is probably someone out there faking those items we desire. Those of us who specialize are therefore more vulnerable in our own fields.

I personally would not touch the above helmets as this is not my specialty. Out of the 100's of German helmets I have owned, I have never come across a single feldpost marked example. The Questionable Camos thread has shown me how helmets are being altered in various ways to become something they never were, which has caused me to be that much more gun shy of most helmets that have been post-factory/field altered (camos, unit/name/post markings).

Take for example, my Q M42 ND helmet that had been reissued with black paint late war. It has sewn-on chinstraps and shows no wear after reissue. Both novice and even experts shy away from most black paint on German combat helmets as post war alterations (even the helmet book author Terry G. does not like it). And while I agree that this may be a good general rule of thumb for novices, I do think that originals exist and that my helmet is one of them.

 

[Hambone]

I personally would not touch the above helmets as this is not my specialty. Out of the 100's of German helmets I have owned, I have never come across a single feldpost marked example. The Questionable Camos thread has shown me how helmets are being altered in various ways to become something they never were, which has caused me to be that much more gun shy of most helmets that have been post-factory/field altered (camos, unit/name/post markings).

I would say that FPN identified helmets are common enough that I've never had to pay more for the FPN markings in them. It's not "rare" enough that it generally commands a premium in my experience. How Ken N. got $4k for those two had to have been a combination of luck and a sexed up description with "Normandy" in it. On my two camo "twins", the originality of which I'd bet my life upon, despite both of them being openly questioned by Perry Floid, the WAFmod, who moronically posted that the existence of two of the same helmet was highly suspicious. In fact, finding camo helmets that have no "twins" is the warning flag. I remember Ken N.s same FPN lids that you posted. I feel better about them now actually, seeing the relic appearing in France and Frankenberger appearing here, all sharing the common attributes that helmets would have with unit prescribed markings. That is, the names and FPN are very similar in style, though not done by the same hand. They all bear "." (dots or periods) after the rank and name and FPN and are in the same order.

I own perhaps 50 German helmets now. I don't know how many I've owned in my life. I seek out named and FPN helmets. That's what I like. I'd say at least 25% of my helmets have FPNs in them. More have names only. I look at it as a cool bonus, not a rarity, not at all. Here are just a few of mine I found in my work PC helmet folder. I have many more. Most have FPNs, some just names. I could keep going. I promise, I paid no more for any of these because of the names and FPNs. I wanted them more, but the price was the same for the base helmet.

 

[Scharf]

After all I'd say why not, I was sceptical at first but I guess I just didn't pay attention to details as much as I should have. I'm not a big helmet collector, I only have a couple of out of the woodwork pick ups. M45 said it all, when you venture out of your field it's tough to be 100% sure and we don't have the helmet or helmets in hands so there's that as well. I appreciate though the whole explanation that you gave, that's learning material and for that I'm grateful.

 

[M45]

eBay item number:
313812950849

We see how easy it is to apply painted information to a helmet in recent times. It may look good but there is nothing original here. Even the steel shell is a re-pop.

 

[Hambone]

eBay item number:
313812950849

We see how easy it is to apply painted information to a helmet in recent times. It may look good but there is nothing original here. Even the steel shell is a re-pop.

In all candor, that thing looks ridiculous. I'm not sure what it proves other than that or that people in Eastern Europe hump lids poorly and put them on Epay with names in the rim. People can and do paint names on anything, cars, airplanes, houses, walls, even calligraphy on a canvas, a helmet rim, as a tattoo on someone's forehead, etc. No on is disputing that it's not done. I'm disputing your assertion that names and FPNs in helmet rims are rare or scarce such as the existence of same should create doubt in and of itself. I look at the totality of circumstances, evidence, and appearances. I'm disputing that the existence of four helmets found worldwide on the internets in 10 years bearing the same style naming and obscure unit FPN, one a relic, one I bought for no more than an unnamed M.40 single decal which was not identified, and two which Ken N. sold for $4k for the pair, means that all of these are humped. I've never held a wombat, but that doesn't mean that they don't exist, in the thousands There were a couple thousand of these helmets to that unit, probably all named the same way, most in the same pile in Cherbourg with hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions, of GIs and sailors, etc., roaming about souveniring. I've had probably hundreds pass through my hands. I own perhaps 30 now. I've never paid more for one with such markings. I've got probably five of the same green and brown overpainted camo helmets and seen probably 30 more, all original. That's because military units did things uniformly. I know you're not a fan of this helmet. I know you're not a fan of the Ken N lid pair sold for $4k. I know you're not a fan of the relic helmet in France. However, as a collector of primarily named and FPN helmets for 35+ years, (which again, are not rare, as I hope I have shown by just depicting some of mine I could find easily in a work PC file folder) I'm going to respectfully disagree with your opinion, and it's not because I own the helmet. It's because I've been a student of these for a long time, know what I'm looking at, and I could get some acetone and a toothbrush, scrub that info out the back rim, and sell it for what I've got in it

 

[ljoconnor]

I sold Ken the one that had a little red paint by the name. I sold it several years ago and don’t remember the details but I remember it because of it belonged to a the rocket unit. Cool helmets Hambone! Thanks for sharing this. Larry