DougB exposes "Champagne Rune" SS Decal Fraud and Adds a Coffin Nail to XRFacts

[tjg79]

He sold 98% of his seven figure collection and kept a few key pieces. He also collects ww1/2 Canadian stuff and ww1 Imperial. So I don't think it will ever leave him 100%. This last fight seems to be his last. I watched it all go down and he did try his best to make it work IMHO. Then said F*ck it and pulled out.

That's not good news for the lid hobby. I'd had hoped Doug B would've stayed in and attracted a following of lid collectors interested in true legit lids that would have exposed, disrupted, and destroyed the fake lid good old boy network.

 

[mauser99]

That's not good news for the lid hobby. I'd had hoped Doug B would've stayed in and attracted a following of lid collectors interested in true legit lids that would have exposed, disrupted, and destroyed the fake lid good old boy network.

It seems this last weekends battle was the last straw for him. I for one will miss input on the GHW forum.

We as a collective group Im sure can keep the helmet fires burning and help all newbies who ask and need help.

 

[M45]

My opinions: The last hope for German helmet collecting on the internet was DougB and his operation of GHW.

Hambone, you are far too kind. I believe the last hope for German helmet collecting on the internet is right here: the k98k militaria forum.

While DougB did the hobby a great service by his "Mythbusting the Champagne Decal" research, the long memories of computers show he was once a strong promoter of this fraud for years. What he knew about C-SS and when aside, his crusade to convince collectors of C-SS authenticity caused him to apparently see things that weren't there, such as 'plenty of period photographic evidence' supporting C-SS, and his detailed magnification studies of C-SS that showed 'clear period pulver and base construction', both blatantly false statements. His later Mythbusting research merely highlighted his earlier contradictory C-SS claims; which he has never, ever adequately addressed BTW.

 

[mauser99]

Hambone, you are far too kind. I believe the last hope for German helmet collecting on the internet is right here: the k98k militaria forum.

While DougB did the hobby a great service by his "Mythbusting the Champagne Decal" research, the long memories of computers show he was once a strong promoter of this fraud for years. What he knew about C-SS and when aside, his crusade to convince collectors of C-SS authenticity caused him to apparently see things that weren't there, such as 'plenty of period photographic evidence' supporting C-SS, and his detailed magnification studies of C-SS that showed 'clear period pulver and base construction', both blatantly false statements. His later Mythbusting research merely highlighted his earlier contradictory C-SS claims; which he has never, ever adequately addressed BTW.

Well, its obvious and easy to say he was wrong before he was right. They all were and some still are. I think it is safe to say that going forward no one will be buying one of these sham-pain-ruin helmets as the real deal. I hope Im right but, after I just typed that statement I just thought how wrong I might be.. All we can do is keep the word out on the streets.

 

[Rev.Mike]

http://www.ghw2.com/topic/52045-the-champagne-rune-fraud/ - seems that the discussion thread will reopen.
Also there is a new thread on the TR helmets forum entitled Doug Buhler which offers some additional perspective.

 

[tjg79]

Gentlemen,

I was intending to open a thread today in honor of Doug, however this one will suffice so I have renamed it and moved it to Walhalla.

On Saturday Doug made a decision to delete his membership from GHW2; he is done with the hobby.

He also chose to delete all his threads and posts before his exit.

It was his decision and his alone.

He deeply regrets that his global mass deletion also impacted The Ron R Collection thread.

Doug connected the dots.

His discoveries were making certain people uncomfortable including the buddy dealer network.

It seems the old boys club with their dirty secrets were on a mission to damage his reputation.

Doug merely uncovered the truth and had the balls to talk about it openly in order to rally collectors.

But it seems many would rather sell their mother to gain a seat at the dealer table.

This is a huge loss to the community and I am deeply saddened by his exit.

This forum wouldn't be what it is today without him.

He is a man of integrity and high ethics, who did us a great service in trying to expose fraud-artists and crooked dealers.

He is one of my best friends and will always remain so.

Roy

http://www.ghw2.com/topic/52035-doug-buhler/

The "buddy dealer network" or "old boys club" needs to be identified by name to fully expose these fraudsters. Who are these guys?

 

[tjg79]

We need a lid sub-forum so lid collectors have a safe place to discuss legit lids and fakes.

 

[M45]

10 years of posts hard deleted at ghw

10 YEARS OF POSTS HARD DELETED AT GHW

"I don't understand why 10 years of posts and discussion topics were hard deleted? // totally erased from the forum archive?
Why do that?" - 808


"I think it was a knee-jerk reaction and the understanding simply was the information he posted after years of research was basically eroded by people who had to do it for the reasons we know."

"Hey guys, lets stat [start] new threads that's what we are here for." - Davidsw Admin.



Talk about knuckle-heads. An 'outrage' is putting it mildly. Not only Doug's posts were deleted, but a lot of other member's work went down the drain as well. And why was this done ?

"...the information he posted after years of research was basically eroded by people who had to do it for the reasons we know." What the heck is this supposed to mean ?

Why should the members there ever trust the GHW2 admin ever again? I wouldn't be surprised if they all abandoned GHW2 en-masse and came over here to k98k. That would send a clear message to not screw with things like that.

"Hey guys, lets stat [start] new threads that's what we are here for." - Davidsw Admin. What a joke!

 

[tjg79]

That's why we need a lid sub-forum for all the lid collector refugees that don't have a safe zone to out fakes.

 

[David C]

10 YEARS OF POSTS HARD DELETED AT GHW

"I don't understand why 10 years of posts and discussion topics were hard deleted? // totally erased from the forum archive?
Why do that?" - 808


"I think it was a knee-jerk reaction and the understanding simply was the information he posted after years of research was basically eroded by people who had to do it for the reasons we know."

"Hey guys, lets stat [start] new threads that's what we are here for." - Davidsw Admin.



Talk about knuckle-heads. An 'outrage' is putting it mildly. Not only Doug's posts were deleted, but a lot of other member's work went down the drain as well. And why was this done ?

"...the information he posted after years of research was basically eroded by people who had to do it for the reasons we know." What the heck is this supposed to mean ?

Why should the members there ever trust the GHW2 admin ever again? I wouldn't be surprised if they all abandoned GHW2 en-masse and came over here to k98k. That would send a clear message to not screw with things like that.

"Hey guys, lets stat [start] new threads that's what we are here for." - Davidsw Admin. What a joke!

Hey M45. I am starting to really admire you & respect you. Took the words right out of my mouth

 

[jhv 41]

The deletion of 10 years of threads is akin to what they did on the TV show Dallas in the 80's - it was all a dream!

 

[M45]

GHW members seem stunned that all of that C-SS and other info was deleted. This was all Doug's doing, they said.

If Doug really cared for the collecting community, he would have left all of that information intact for future study. As I see it, there is only one reason that makes any sense as to why he would hard delete thousands of posts and put a massive hole in the GHW forum as he left for good; he was erasing his tracks before he ran.

Remember that for years on GHW and elsewhere Doug had been vetting C-SS as "textbook", acknowledging his close collecting friendship with Kelly H., confronting those who seriously questioned C-SS and thus his own competency, berating those who were not helmet book authors or serious SS helmet collectors with "so who the hell are you?" to doubt us "experts", making positive reference to XRFacts in regard to C-SS (before backing down), liberally editing deleting and 'sanitizing' threads which did not fit in with his C-SS "comfort zone", throwing temper tantrums and hissy-fits when members refused to bow before his 'superior knowledge', and like a dictatorial tyrant making information and members disappear who displeased him.

I do not recall one hint of doubt in Doug about C-SS until the lot# book came out and forced his re-think of the matter. Regardless of how he slammed the lot# book by whining about me 'stealing' GHW's lot# list info or his complaints about 'too many theories' or me using the 'M45' tag, the evidence was building up against C-SS and he reluctantly began to give ground in certain areas (re: late CKL M42s) while maintaining his stand of authenticity for his "vet acquired" hkp M42s. Then he began to grasp at straws when came up with the idea that they were "private purchase" decals found mainly on hkp M42s and NS M35s. He even came up with his own theory that SS decals were being factory applied in 1944 to justify the 1944 dated C-SS M42s.

Finally, after purchasing the lot# book, he no doubt read it and saw that the game was over for C-SS. He then produced the extensive 'Mythbusting the Champagne Decal' thread (something that he should have done 10 years prior). The SS helmet "expert" had went from C-SS being totally "textbook" (his good friend Kelly wrote the textbook) to some being out of his "comfort zone", to finally all of them being postwar template spray painted fakes. Although most still saw Doug as a hero for the Mythbusting work and not as incompetent for being so wrong for so long, his past statements justifying C-SS rose up to haunt him. The blatantly false statements he made concerning "plenty of period photographic evidence" supporting C-SS and C-SS having "clear period pulver and base construction" cast serious doubt on his integrity.

 

[Rev.Mike]

Regardless of Doug's faults and mistakes he has done collectors a great service as have you Brian. Life's too short for bad blood and your contributions have indeed enhanced our understanding of helmet production and branch assignment. Someday this will be universally accepted.

 

[Hambone]

I agree with Rev. Mike's assessment. I understand your position Brian and support you obviously. I well understand what it's like to be attacked and censored for being right. No one can deny your substantial contributions. However, DougB blew the lid off this fraud at much personal cost and at his own expense. Yes, he maintained opinions opposing ours on The CRSS and XRFacts, but he publicly changed position and admitted his previous position was incorrect. That takes a good bit of integrity. The opposition is not DougB. It's the people involved in fraud and their toady supporters, and those who aid and abet them. We all disagree at certain times on various issues but at the end of the day you are one of the good guys and so is DougB. If ever there was a time we needed to support the good guys, it is now.

 

[David C]

GHW members seem stunned that all of that C-SS and other info was deleted. This was all Doug's doing, they said.

If Doug really cared for the collecting community, he would have left all of that information intact for future study. As I see it, there is only one reason that makes any sense as to why he would hard delete thousands of posts and put a massive hole in the GHW forum as he left for good; he was erasing his tracks before he ran.

Remember that for years on GHW and elsewhere Doug had been vetting C-SS as "textbook", acknowledging his close collecting friendship with Kelly H., confronting those who seriously questioned C-SS and thus his own competency, berating those who were not helmet book authors or serious SS helmet collectors with "so who the hell are you?" to doubt us "experts", making positive reference to XRFacts in regard to C-SS (before backing down), liberally editing deleting and 'sanitizing' threads which did not fit in with his C-SS "comfort zone", throwing temper tantrums and hissy-fits when members refused to bow before his 'superior knowledge', and like a dictatorial tyrant making information and members disappear who displeased him.

I do not recall one hint of doubt in Doug about C-SS until the lot# book came out and forced his re-think of the matter. Regardless of how he slammed the lot# book by whining about me 'stealing' GHW's lot# list info or his complaints about 'too many theories' or me using the 'M45' tag, the evidence was building up against C-SS and he reluctantly began to give ground in certain areas (re: late CKL M42s) while maintaining his stand of authenticity for his "vet acquired" hkp M42s. Then he began to grasp at straws when came up with the idea that they were "private purchase" decals found mainly on hkp M42s and NS M35s. He even came up with his own theory that SS decals were being factory applied in 1944 to justify the 1944 dated C-SS M42s.

Finally, after purchasing the lot# book, he no doubt read it and saw that the game was over for C-SS. He then produced the extensive 'Mythbusting the Champagne Decal' thread (something that he should have done 10 years prior). The SS helmet "expert" had went from C-SS being totally "textbook" (his good friend Kelly wrote the textbook) to some being out of his "comfort zone", to finally all of them being postwar template spray painted fakes. Although most still saw Doug as a hero for the Mythbusting work and not as incompetent for being so wrong for so long, his past statements justifying C-SS rose up to haunt him. The blatantly false statements he made concerning "plenty of period photographic evidence" supporting C-SS and C-SS having "clear period pulver and base construction" cast serious doubt on his integrity.

100% correct. In reality, not due to my recent banning by him,I could not agree more. I also believe you have other less than flattering opinions of the man, but you are being kind. I may add my two cents when I am ready.

 

[Hambone]

100% correct. In reality, not due to my recent banning by him,I could not agree more. I also believe you have other less than flattering opinions of the man, but you are being kind. I may add my two cents when I am ready.

IMHO there is a personal attack campaign being waged by the "old boys club" against DougB for "breaking ranks" and exposing the biggest fraud in collecting history. Why are there some taking personal shots at DougB and ignoring the culprits and the crime? I understand M45's complaints as related to a long running disagreement. I question the motives of anyone else. At this point, IMHO, if you're taking shots at DougB and not working toward condemning the culprits then you're a friend of the culprits.

 

[Peiper]

I fully agree with Hambone that there is now a lot of negative remarks on DougB ongoing. Yes, he did support C-SS and XRF earlier, but he changed his view publicly and has admitted his mistake. That is something one can attack in this case is my view. I understand that you Brian has some history with Doug which is not pleasant, but I also feel that such a discussion is not relevant here. It only obscures what this scandal is all about. Who made the fakes, who assisted, who knew and did nothing. Also those who are implcit in some way and do not take responsibility of their actions.

I do not know DougB personally, but I respect the work he has done by analysing and exposing the C-SS "decal" as fakes and paving the ground for an all out exposure of the scandal.

 

[David C]

old boys club

IMHO there is a personal attack campaign being waged by the "old boys club" against DougB for "breaking ranks" and exposing the biggest fraud in collecting history. Why are there some taking personal shots at DougB and ignoring the culprits and the crime? I understand M45's complaints as related to a long running disagreement. I question the motives of anyone else. At this point, IMHO, if you're taking shots at DougB and not working toward condemning the culprits then you're a friend of the culprits.

Hambone, if you are referring to me as being a part of the "Old Boys Club", not sure of your meaning. I for one am only 59 years old. The guys I am friends with in this hobby, I am the oldest & Doug was one of us. I only got back into collecting in 2005 after non involvement for 15 years. As for the CH "thing", I was never an SS collector at anytime due to the price & the fakery. I was alone in 2005 & knew nobody. But I happened to meet the right people, Doug was one of them. SOS 2007 I saw my first CH helmet & did not bother to look at it, just another fake or unexplained anomaly. Then I saw them pop-up on websites, still I had zero interest. I thought they were just ugly & dead looking

Doug was told, warned, advised by a few during SOS hotel room parties in MY hotel room, eating MY pretzels, drinking MY booze almost everynight for a week from sundown to sunrise. These discussions on opinion of CH decals went on year after year with about 10 of us discussing them in an intimate setting. I have pictures to prove this. He still insisted CH were real, ego maybe ?
My involvement was limited due to my lack of care in these discussions on CH decals, but I am a very good listener.
When he finally had enough & was persuaded they were a problem decal, there was another problem. How to prove they are fake. I give him credit for sure for his examinations & findings. The man is very intelligent. But I at times question his passion, would he have gone through the great time consuming effort if he did not have such "stock" in CH decals ? Not sure
Another thing to "back up" my "attack" as you call it, & agree with M45 is quote "David,from the heart,you need to learn the words "Public Social Media" & it's meaning. Anything posted here will be seen anywhere in the world, usually in seconds. That's how the Internet works".
Yet, in a PM...he tells me M45 stole lot# references from HIS forum & wrote a book. A "bit of a contradiction"? It's okay for my helmets to be viewed world wide but not HIS accumulated lot#'s ?
Well, if he feels violated, then it is justified. If I felt somewhat violated ,it's not.
That is why I agreed with M45.

 

[Hambone]

Hambone, if you are referring to me as being a part of the "Old Boys Club", not sure of your meaning. I for one am only 59 years old. The guys I am friends with in this hobby, I am the oldest & Doug was one of us. I only got back into collecting in 2005 after non involvement for 15 years. As for the CH "thing", I was never an SS collector at anytime due to the price & the fakery. I was alone in 2005 & knew nobody. But I happened to meet the right people, Doug was one of them. SOS 2007 I saw my first CH helmet & did not bother to look at it, just another fake or unexplained anomaly. Then I saw them pop-up on websites, still I had zero interest. I thought they were just ugly & dead looking

Doug was told, warned, advised by a few during SOS hotel room parties in MY hotel room, eating MY pretzels, drinking MY booze almost everynight for a week from sundown to sunrise. These discussions on opinion of CH decals went on year after year with about 10 of us discussing them in an intimate setting. I have pictures to prove this. He still insisted CH were real, ego maybe ?
My involvement was limited due to my lack of care in these discussions on CH decals, but I am a very good listener.
When he finally had enough & was persuaded they were a problem decal, there was another problem. How to prove they are fake. I give him credit for sure for his examinations & findings. The man is very intelligent. But I at times question his passion, would he have gone through the great time consuming effort if he did not have such "stock" in CH decals ? Not sure
Another thing to "back up" my "attack" as you call it, & agree with M45 is quote "David,from the heart,you need to learn the words "Public Social Media" & it's meaning. Anything posted here will be seen anywhere in the world, usually in seconds. That's how the Internet works".
Yet, in a PM...he tells me M45 stole lot# references from HIS forum & wrote a book. A "bit of a contradiction"? It's okay for my helmets to be viewed world wide but not HIS accumulated lot#'s ?
Well, if he feels violated, then it is justified. If I felt somewhat violated ,it's not.
That is why I agreed with M45.

You have not been singled out David. However, there is a concerted effort it seems by the "Old Boys Club" to smear DougB. That is a ad hominem distraction from the real issues and problems which he identified and proved, the Great Shampain Ruin Fraud and those involved. If the helmet collecting hobby at this time is more interested in attacking the messenger than investigating itself and cleaning house, then it is officially a cess pool with human turds as lifeguards. Thankfully, this is my "home" and community and neighbors and I don't need anywhere else, nor do I need to pretend to enjoy swimming in a cess pool for affirmations and blessings and more swastika festooned stuff.

DougB I think is bigger than all of this and is simply disgusted. This site and my friends here are my sanctuary from disgust. If I collected German helmets only I believe that if I wanted to participate online it would have to be in a site that I paid for and created, which would be like this place.

 

[David C]

Devils' Advocate

Here is a question from a non collector friend of mine who I spoke weeks ago on the topic of CH decals. "Was this mans' motive to expose this a personal vendetta against someone or to get his money back ?"
It got me to think. Tossing this out there, being careful how I say it because it won't go over well. And it may get read wrong. "Devils' Advocate". Points & thoughts put into my head from a civilian
When we look into the end results of this "discovery" on CH decals, at the end of the day, what did it do for the helmet collecting community ? It poisoned it. That's what it did. Maybe these discoveries did more harm than good, turning away new collectors for fear that now EVERYTHING is fake.
Someone recently used the term "A victimless crime" in reference to the CH problem. A term I personally don't agree with, but something to ponder. As the discussion progressed, points were made that the helmet community was going along very nicely, sure due to demographics & what, interest had fallen a bit. Guys who had CH decaled helmets were very happy & satisfied with them. Since nobody had publicly condemned them, everyone was happy buying & trading back & forth their CH decaled helmets. Though some of us had our doubts, we just stayed away from them
The theory is of late, there is only a "handful" of these CH out here, none have been produced since 1975 or whatever. The production has halted. No more being circulated. So the theory of "A victimless crime" kicks in. Similar to buying anything fake, if the owner is satisfied & their peers are satisfied, who is getting hurt ? Where is the victim when CH helmets were owned by many "experts".
Now since the findings that they are painted, guys stuck with valueless helmets, new collectors turning away, a very high level of anxiety & fear among collectors has now taken hold like a disease. One might ask, what fueled the motivation to do this ? A personal attack on KH ? At the end of the day, the rantings & condemnations have turned helmet collecting "Toxic". Friends turning away from each other, dealers being bashed etc.etc. Other than bashing COAs' & a few dealers, that's all it did. I think maybe it did more harm than good. If the CH helmets were still being made, & circulated, I would tend to applaude a bit louder. If I owned a CH helmet, well not sure what I would think of Doug. Again, these are just thoughts that some might ponder, agree or not
Sincerely, "Devils' Advocate"

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