Be careful. Fakers in our midst. gill120 Dave Gill please respond

mrfarb said:
I’m going to give gill120 a chance to explain himself before I ban him for life. There’s nothing excuse for passing bad guns to our members. Trying to pass a made up LSR to a mod has to rank right up there with robbing a police station. I’m sure he thought he could get away with it since he bought it offline and there are no photos. He didn’t plan on Dave Robert’s, the human sniper rifle Rolodex.

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FWIW, this was going to be my suggestion to the site and membership, but Farb beat me to it.
 
NathanLM said:
I’ve been a member here for a long time now, not as long as some, but longer than many I venture to guess. This isn’t a place where fakery shenanigans often fly below the radar. Even the dumbest swindler should know better than to shite where he eats. But there are two points I would like to make:

1. Unimpeachable integrity is rare these days. I would guess that verbal embellishments, If not physical embellishments are more common than given credit. I imagine many have struggled when selling an item whether or not they should first pick apart their own item. Break it down to the minutia of flaws that they notice, when those flaws are barely noticeable at all. Especially to less experienced guys.

2. Maybe Gill is an outright liar, he humped the rifle from its original configuration and then tried to sell for something it’s not, all for the dollar. On the other hand, maybe this forum outs people prematurely. And this forum does it aggressively. Members I respect do this (hambone). I expect to be the subject of his ire and that of others, most of whom can form a much more eloquent argument that I!

Disclaimer: I don’t remember dealing with the D Gill guy and he is certainly not someone i have dealt with in the last few years.

Maybe I’m on a tangent not, but I’m deployed and have my first beer in months In me. I’m feeling Froggy
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I'm not going to jump you for it, but I will point out that at some point you have to stand for something, otherwise you stand for nothing. Standing for something means actually doing something to support that stance. I believe our efforts in outing humpers and humpjobs has had a profound and observable positive effect upon K98k collecting. The only way a person is going to get burned on a K98k today is if they don't take a few minutes to consult this site and get free information. It's called due diligence. If we didn't out humpers and humpjobs how would people exercise due diligence and what would the K98k hobby be like?

This is was a "physical embellishment" like Hiroshima was "uncharacteristically warm" on August 6, 1945.
 
Absolut said:
Did Richard also confirm that gill120 himself bought the rifle from him?
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Georg.
When Andrew sent me the pics of said Fake LSR , I recognized the rifle serial number right off the bat and I suspected that it was most likely the rifle Richard Milton had sold to Dave Gill . I wanted to be 100% percent certain that I was not mistaken before I made any accusations about someone doing something unscrupulous . So I contacted Richard Milton to verify my suspicions and it was verified by Richard that I was correct . Richard also gave me the year the rifle was sold to Dave Gill and what show it was sold at . Matt mentioned that the rifle in question was bought by Dave Gill from Richard Milton at the SOS , this is incorrect . Richard Milton sold the rifle to Dave Gill at OGCA Show in 2017 .
 
Great that Richard kept records of his sales and even better that you have such a memory! Buying such a rifle only to turn it into a sniper rifle is one thing, but then to resell it for profit (did anyone know what Richard was originally asking for it and what it was supposed to bring now?) is really bad.

I've seen LSR builds on unfinished rifles btw where nothing was molested. The stopping pins were shortened and only inserted in the base, but the receiver was not drilled. This way it looks like an original from the outside and nothing is harmed.
 
Georg I seem to remember he had that rifle priced at $3,500 to $4,000. Maybe a little less than that. Like I said before I examined the rifle because I thought it was a neat example but I put my funds into something else instead. Now I do kind of regret not buying it because a unique variation was ruined to deceive a collector as I mentioned in my other post. Hell even when I talked to Richard Milton about it he even said I hope whoever buys this rifle it doesn't come back as a long side rail.
 
Sorry to hear all of this. I’ll just have to pull my unmolested 3 hole Mauser out of the safe and hold it tight for awhile today...


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Warrior1354 said:
Georg I seem to remember he had that rifle priced at $3,500 to $4,000. Maybe a little less than that. Like I said before I examined the rifle because I thought it was a neat example but I put my funds into something else instead. Now I do kind of regret not buying it because a unique variation was ruined to deceive a collector as I mentioned in my other post. Hell even when I talked to Richard Milton about it he even said I hope whoever buys this rifle it doesn't come back as a long side rail.
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People will keep destroying these unfinished snipers as long as they are the cheaper way to an original than to buy a complete rifle. We'll once reach a point where this happens. Same as for the Volkssturm rifles which were scrapped first post WWII since they were the worst quality, now we are seeing this little quality sell at high prices due to little supply.
I mean if he had planned to keep it for himself and he was not able to afford an original LSR sniper (and if that was the case, he could had done what I had suggested a bit up, he would not had modified the unifinished receiver yet made it look like an original), but instead it seems profit was what drove him into doing this. Such a shame!
 
One has to either reject this behavior outright or watch the hobby turn into a "shite Show Circus".....

What is the difference between passing counterfeit $20.00 bills, and deliberately creating a fake sniper, to peddle as original ?????

Now, if he had done this to keep it in his own collection, and revealed the truth before selling it, then I would not fault him, although I would not have "ENHANCED" the rifle, if it were mine.

Frankly, this is FRAUD and most dishonorable .......
 
I just want to say thank you to the members, mods and owners here bringing this into the public light and making us all aware.

As a new collector, the biggest obstacle is fakes and trying to spot them. Even with the set of books i have from Bruce and Michael, and the wealth of knowledge contained in said books, the fakes are hard to spot without the assistance of the members, mods and owners here, and I'm thankful that this resource is here for old and new collectors alike.

I have asked for assistance from those here on multiple occasions and they have saved me a bunch of money.

This forum is a highly valuable resource and thanks for all you do to protect this hobby and collectors alike. :hail:
 
I didnt know this was going to make such a stink. I offered the rifle because he said he was looking for one. I took a number of pics and forwared them to him to look it over. He declined because he said some other members questioned some parts on the rifle, that he had contacted. I wasnt trying to twist anyones arm to purchase the piece in question, nor did i make any promises of the rifles originality. It is an LSR receiver and parts were added.I hope this is over with. I think i will take the parts off of the rifle , they are real. Regards to all .
 
I was not aware this was going to happen at the time, but my ad did request only original rifles, and you claimed it was 1945 assembled. This was the biggest issue I think. If you’d put the base on that should have been mentioned immediately, and this excludes it from being 45 assembled. Also doesn’t explain the fake bolt and buttplate.
 
Andrew i am sorry if there was misrepresentation of this rifle. I did say it was probably a 1945 date rifle due to its late style proofing. I did think this was all settled between us when we talked. The rifle was presented on the boards a year or two ago as a project rifle and pictured then, but my memory has taken a hit from the stroke. Hoping you well regards to all. About the bolt, it is the same bolt and striker i got with it from Rich , and the butte plate is checkered inside as well as out. Everyone has their opinions, lets let it lay.
 
gill120 said:
I didnt know this was going to make such a stink. I offered the rifle because he said he was looking for one. I took a number of pics and forwared them to him to look it over. He declined because he said some other members questioned some parts on the rifle, that he had contacted. I wasnt trying to twist anyones arm to purchase the piece in question, nor did i make any promises of the rifles originality. It is an LSR receiver and parts were added.I hope this is over with. I think i will take the parts off of the rifle , they are real. Regards to all .
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Want to quote this in the event it gets deleted.

"I have a LSR BCD 4 that is definately 1945 assembled" is exactly what you stated in your offer. How is someone suppose to read into that? Does "definatley" mean something different than definitely?

Perhaps our lawyer Hambone can make sense of this.
 
mdarnell19 said:
Want to quote this in the event it gets deleted.

"I have a LSR BCD 4 that is definately 1945 assembled" is exactly what you stated in your offer. How is someone suppose to read into that? Does "definatley" mean something different than definitely?

Perhaps our lawyer Hambone can make sense of this.
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Darnell I dont remember you being a third party to my phone calls with Andrew, why are you making this personnal?
 
gill120 said:
Darnell I dont remember you being a third party to my phone calls with Andrew, why are you making this personnal?
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I am exposing your actions which took place on this forum. You tried to take advantage of a buyer and this will not be tolerated. You still have not given an explanation.

So please explain, why did you offer a three whole rifle as a completed sniper rifle stating it was assembled in 1945? Did you merely forget that you had faked a long side rail? If this is the case then perhaps you should consider not selling items if you can not remember nor determine their authenticity.
 
I am sorry to have to break the news to you, but your actions, and failure to disclose how the rifle became a sniper, when offering it for sale, while knowing full well it is NOT an original, as built, sniper, are both dishonest and dishonorable.

Please do not try to put lipstick on a pig, by engaging in semantics or attempting to justify your actions.
 
DaveDavis said:
I am sorry to have to break the news to you, but your actions, and failure to disclose how the rifle became a sniper, when offering it for sale, while knowing full well it is NOT an original, as built, sniper, are both dishonest and dishonorable.

Please do not try to put lipstick on a pig, by engaging in semantics or attempting to justify your actions.
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Wise words from Dave and +1 for our members looking out for each other. With all the crap already out there we don't need that crap on the forums.

I mean come on... that wasn't going to fly on here.. Gill possibly couldn't think he would have gotten away with it right, right?? This isn't Gunbroker....
 
gill120 said:
I didnt know this was going to make such a stink. I offered the rifle because he said he was looking for one. I took a number of pics and forwared them to him to look it over. He declined because he said some other members questioned some parts on the rifle, that he had contacted. I wasnt trying to twist anyones arm to purchase the piece in question, nor did i make any promises of the rifles originality. It is an LSR receiver and parts were added.I hope this is over with. I think i will take the parts off of the rifle , they are real. Regards to all .
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Did YOU drill/have drilled the receiver? An easy Y/N answer.
 
to answer your questions, yes i put the taper pin holes in the receiver. I considered this my shooter rifle, and wished to complete it. i did not openly deceive anyone, the rifle no longer exists. It was stripped and destroyed. So you can take off your list of rifles.
 
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