Third Party Press

$130,000 Luger

I do have a few screenshots from the forum posts, but not all. Several posts such as these tore this particular “01” HK apart D69723AB-CCB6-4CF4-BF56-27283F284CCE.jpeg
 
The idea that two guns with the same serial number were inspected side by side by well known collectors - without any photos being taken - is probably the part of this story that most strains credulity. When that tale was pushed as authentic, all of the rest fell apart for me. Then there was the story that the author who had inspected “01” and chosen not to include it in his book….


This isn’t normal human behavior and it stands out when people are trying to explain stuff away. Hambone knows what I mean here, and it’s the sort of thing that would make me hold back a laugh during a deposition.
 
I’m sure it was Ed who deleted it. He can’t handle open discussion, like most Mods on most forums.
 
I thought the whole controversy should have been resolved by the presence of the Mauser G on the receiver and the
obviously added 0 prefix to the 1 on the front of the frame.
 
Krieg said:
Wow. There was a wealth of info on that thread that would be useful for new collectors. Big shame that Mods buckled to pressure and deleted it
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Due to popular demand, the thread is back up, but I don't believe it can be posted in any more.
 
lthilsdorf said:
They shut the conversation off on the Luger forums because people were being big meanies to Tom and questioning that #95 too. Poor poor Tom.
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The difference is that here it's a discussion we value and would allow to run its course. The response is standard deflection. The reason why a forum requires transparency is because you never know what's going on behind the scenes or what was censored. You don't know the relationship of the forum to the dealer reviewed (e.g., paying for banners, paying for ads, extending deals to mods, who is the chain of ownership of a piece being shilled, etc.)
 
Hambone said:
The difference is that here it's a discussion we value and would allow to run its course. The response is standard deflection. The reason why a forum requires transparency is because you never know what's going on behind the scenes or what was censored. You don't know the relationship of the forum to the dealer reviewed (e.g., paying for banners, paying for ads, extending deals to mods, who is the chain of ownership of a piece being shilled, etc.)
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The response given as to why the conversation was locked and then temporarily deleted was bizarre to me. Essentially I understood it to read that the conversation was somehow degenerative or reflected poorly on the apparent perception of the forum as proudly being some sort of stuffy room filled with leather couches and smelling of rich mahogany. To your point, critical conversations are important regardless of the specific tone of those conversations. It almost seemed a little bit like pearl clutching, which was hilarious to me. I can understand human nature, and the closing of the thread and temporary removal was, most certainly, a result of human nature.

The far more likely reason for the response was that people intertwined their support of the vendor on a personal level with steadfast infallibility as a seller - which worked until photographic evidence pretty much left little room to doubt that the claims made failed to levy the appropriate amount of scrutiny for such a storied and high dollar item.
 
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Many forums on the internet are either founded by commercial interest (aka dealers), funded by dealers, or run by friends of such. It’s an age old problem that pokes it’s head up now and again in threads like that. When the commercial entity is losing face the forum seems to goes into damage control on their behalf. The funny part is usually the intended target (dealer) doesn’t care for the “help” but gets it anyway and usually makes them less credible due to such help.

Many of the toadies are usually steady customers of said dealer and want to make sure their trusty pipeline of goods is protected. So the human nature you speak about is the greed of humans to get the trinkets they so desire. Very good analysis.
 
Sometimes the best thing to do when you find yourself in a hole is to drop the shovel. There is no doubt that Legacy went too far in "promoting" this gun - and they can't deny the fact that they did. He tried to cover himself by saying it was a consignment, it's not his price (he said he valued it at $40-$50K), that he has a 100% money back guarantee, blah, blah, blah. But if it's really a case of caveat emptor, then all that talk is meaningless until he takes down the video claiming it is the Krieghoff #1. ("Incredible Historical Find: The First Krieghoff Luger Ever Made!" - straight from his listing.) Otherwise it's all just smoke and mirrors. He may have genuinely believed it was the original, but there has been enough doubt cast that he needs to back away instead of doubling down with excuses.

I understand limiting personal attacks - and some of the posts did tread pretty close to that line - but at the end of the day, you can't make bold claims without expecting to be subjected to some pretty harsh scrutiny. It feels like he just expected everyone to accept his word and he was genuinely surprised that there was pushback. Now that it has happened, the real test will be how he ultimately responds in actions - not just words
 
corifleman said:
The response given as to why the conversation was locked and then temporarily deleted was bizarre to me. Essentially I understood it to read that the conversation was somehow degenerative or reflected poorly on the apparent perception of the forum as proudly being some sort of stuffy room filled with leather couches and smelling of rich mahogany. To your point, critical conversations are important regardless of the specific tone of those conversations. It almost seemed a little bit like pearl clutching, which was hilarious to me. I can understand human nature, and the closing of the thread and temporary removal was, most certainly, a result of human nature.

The far more likely reason for the response was that people intertwined their support of the vendor on a personal level with steadfast infallibility as a seller - which worked until photographic evidence pretty much left little room to doubt that the claims made failed to levy the appropriate amount of scrutiny for such a storied and high dollar item.
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You nailed it, with some humor as well. Nice work. (y)
 
Straight out the gate, my first impression, what was obvious to me, was that the thing had been "restored", refinished, pimped and manipulated. I'm not even a P.08 collector. I have some to go with my rifles and helmets and such. I can't see how anyone who knows these pistols would think that they could run such carnie barking for it and not get called out. On this type of intrigue, get your screenshots. If it was a K98k, particularly of some rarity, Loewe would be able to tell you what it started life as and who sold it, etc.
 
If it does not sell, I wonder if it will be in a future Rock Island Auction Premier (or equivalent) auction house in 6 months.
 
Can you imagine having to stand behind that bullshit “there are two guns #95” story?

If appears to me that the story was conjured up to explain why the refinished 95 looked different than the earlier photos, but now that it’s been admitted to be the same gun, he has to pretend that there is still a second phantom gun out there somewhere.

And people have to pretend that they believe the story or risk being shunned.

Awkward.
 
Hambone said:
If it was a K98k, particularly of some rarity, Loewe would be able to tell you what it started life as and who sold it, etc.
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Yeah no doubt. Straight out of the way back machine. And he wasn't the only one.
 
Hambone said:
Straight out the gate, my first impression, what was obvious to me, was that the thing had been "restored", refinished, pimped and manipulated. I'm not even a P.08 collector. I have some to go with my rifles and helmets and such. I can't see how anyone who knows these pistols would think that they could run such carnie barking for it and not get called out. On this type of intrigue, get your screenshots. If it was a K98k, particularly of some rarity, Loewe would be able to tell you what it started life as and who sold it, etc.
Click to expand...
And he would probably have pictures also.
 
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