SSDC dot 43?

[stefanorobol]

Find this one from a local gunshop, just want more opinions about this rifle. Scope does not match. Not sure about that dow+ so engraved in the scope tube.

Cannot find much on dot 43 rifles used to make SSDC snipers.

Thank you for your opinions.

 

[mdarnell19]

Well I'll be the first to give an opinion. I like what I see and I think that is a legit SS double claw using a dot 43 to assemble it, which is very rare and neat to see. Metal condition is pretty rough. Can you post pictures of the bolt numbers and the top of the receiver with the scope removed?
Thanks for sharing

 

[Dave Roberts]

I have known about this specific SSDC for over 5 yrs now . Another forum member by the name of Quinto reached out to me about a year ago asking me whether or not I thought it was an Original SSDC which I told him imo I believed it was an original SSDC , I told Quinto that had known about this SSDC already he told me he wanted to buy it , which is why he asked me my opinion on the rifle . I told Quinto that both I and the other member believed it to maybe an original SSDC . Maybe the member that I spoke with about as to whether this SSDC was legit or not will also chime in .

The Base Rifle is 100% Matching including the Bolt and the Stock , here are a few of the pics I have of this SSDC

 

[stefanorobol]

Thank you for replying, and glad to know it could probably be a rare SSDC dot 43.

Unfortunately I do not have more photos about the rifle, which should be needed because I noticed a small "damage" (don't know how to say it in English) inside the barrel that could be a shame if shooting would be an option with this rifle.

Any more thought about that dow+ so engraved? Maybe a manual post-war re-engraving?

 

[Absolut]

The SSZZA2 stamp leaves mixed impressions to me. It looks odd with that much "flat surface" in the depths and reminds me of how the imprint of one of the Polish SSZZA2 stamps does. I know there are rifles with the shorter imprint line on the right wing, but I cannot recall one with this much of a big hole between the legs (usually just a fine line) and again, the almost bold imprinted letters. Maybe I'm wrong and it is just the different hardened surface that resulted in imprints like that, but the simple fact that "only" this stamp is required and a set that corresponds to original bases (also nothing impossible to do) to make a SS DC sniper rifle I'd be very careful when looking at a rifle like this.


Edit: SSZZA2 of rifles previously posted:

 

[mrfarb]

I wish I could chime in with a good answer myself but it’s impossible to be 100% correct with an evaluation from photos, in hand comparison is the only sure way. As Absolut mentions the sszza4 stamp is the only thing to compare and it’s too risky to make a call. And why is the front base so poorly fitted?

On the scope, someone clearly tried to re-engrave the markings as the old ones were rusted away, and did a poor job.

I will say it’s entirely possible that a dot 1943 could be used as a base rifle as the known/accepted byf43 and bcd43 all came from Army depots delivered to the SS as payment for labor supplied in Steyr rifle production for the SS. But the ultimate call is yours to make.

Here’s one in Europe that turned out to be fake, so someone there has dreams of a dot43 SSDC:

dot 1943 with ss stamp and double claw mount

A friend of mine has in collection this dot 1943 with ss stamp and double claw mount . In my search I didn't found any legit ss double claw assembled with a dot 1943 rifles , but I also know that the ss armourers used not only bnz rifles but also rifles from other builders . The ss stamp looks...

www.k98kforum.com

 

[mauser99]

Not a rifle Id touch with a 10 foot pole... Its obviously fake and the stamp is fake and the work is very poorly done. Look at the dovetail cut and the way the base is crooked.
Then look at the two REAL bnz base rifles.. Just cause we hope something is real doesnt mean it is... Walk away .

Personally not much different than all the made up ZF41 riles that got passed around as real cause the old books were all wrong...

 

[mdarnell19]

I wish I could chime in with a good answer myself but it’s impossible to be 100% correct with an evaluation from photos, in hand comparison is the only sure way. As Absolut mentions the sszza4 stamp is the only thing to compare and it’s too risky to make a call. And why is the front base so poorly fitted?

On the scope, someone clearly tried to re-engrave the markings as the old ones were rusted away, and did a poor job.

I will say it’s entirely possible that a dot 1943 could be used as a base rifle as the known/accepted byf43 and bcd43 all came from Army depots delivered to the SS as payment for labor supplied in Steyr rifle production for the SS. But the ultimate call is yours to make.

Here’s one in Europe that turned out to be fake, so someone there has dreams of a dot43 SSDC:

dot 1943 with ss stamp and double claw mount

A friend of mine has in collection this dot 1943 with ss stamp and double claw mount . In my search I didn't found any legit ss double claw assembled with a dot 1943 rifles , but I also know that the ss armourers used not only bnz rifles but also rifles from other builders . The ss stamp looks...

www.k98kforum.com

I definitely see the concern with the fit and finish of the base now that you point that out. I still like the SSZZA2 stamp.

 

[mrfarb]

Yes, Dave’s photos don’t really show enough detail to catch that. I’d pass on it just because of that.

 

[mdarnell19]

Yes, Dave’s photos don’t really show enough detail to catch that. I’d pass on it just because of that.

Unfortunately that is true. With snipers it has to be 1 strike and you're out. They are just messed with too much.

 

[Absolut]

I still like the SSZZA2 stamp.

Fully disagree with you. Once again, the stamp on the particular rifle:

Then the Polish newly made stamp (angle adjusted and mirrored for better comparison):

See how perfectly the font matches on the particular rifle and the stamp, with all angles and rounded edges?

Then finally again how a SSZZA2 is supposed to look like (I think actually even your rifle; at least I stole that from another thread on the forum):

 

[stefanorobol]

Thank you everyone for your comments.

Indeed that marking it is at least doubtful.

If fake, it makes me mad that someone ruined such a good all matching rifle.

 

[tonino7]

Thanks Georg for your study and final analysis , well done !

 

[mdarnell19]

Georg, how dare you disagree with me and be correct and prove I am wrong. That‘s not allowed here! Lol, just joking.

I have never seen that stamp you posted. You are correct, that stamp is 100% fake. The A is the big tell. Someone is getting good at this. Thanks for posting this!

Believe it or not, I like when people prove me wrong. Means I learn something new and it reinforces my desire to study more.

 

[Thorne]

Nice catch on the stamp indeed. Be shame if that faker's shop were to go up in flames.

One of the new fronts in collecting; is also researching reproduction and tools like this and not just originals imo.

Also in the sake of learning, were DOT rifles spotted with these SSDC types?

 

[mauser99]

Nice catch on the stamp indeed. Be shame if that faker's shop were to go up in flames.

One of the new fronts in collecting; is also researching reproduction and tools like this and not just originals imo.

Also in the sake of learning, were DOT rifles spotted with these SSDC types?

to be 99.9% sure Id say no... But, there could be some odd ball recycled reciever dot used at Steyr so I never say never. But, it would certainly never be build up on an Army contract dot43/44 rifle..
Just like all the dot and other zf41's out there... Pretty easy fake to spot.. All you really need to do is study known originals ..

 

[Thorne]

to be 99.9% sure Id say no... But, there could be some odd ball recycled reciever dot used at Steyr so I never say never. But, it would certainly never be build up on an Army contract dot43/44 rifle..
Just like all the dot and other zf41's out there... Pretty easy fake to spot.. All you really need to do is study known originals ..

What I've always gone by with DOT rifles, but the initial warm welcome to this example left a .01% doubt, as finding originals is easier said then done as we all know.

 

[Absolut]

Actually Waffenwerke Brünn tried to persuade the SS to use newly made rifles by them rather than to provide rifles and get those converted. So theoretically it could be possible the first few prototypes were made based on newly made dot coded rifles. And knowing quite a lot of the base rifles were overhauled SS rifles this leaves chances for weird codes.

The coolest SS DC I‘ve ever seen uses a Walther armorer spare receiver, no receiver date nor maker on it. Only Waffenamt 359 right side and Mod.98 on the receiver wall. And of course SSZZA2.

 

[Dave Roberts]

Antonio sent me a photo of the front base of the Dot 43 which when You compare this base to known original its very easy to see the base is not the same as all the known originals . This will be one more tool in the bucket of how to tell originals from fakes . Antonio did not want me to post the pic on the forum because he concerned that the forgers will get more info to fix the problem so I agreed not to , but it you want comparison photos showing exactly what and were to look for I will send you comparison photos . I will send to those who I have emails for already .

 

[mauser99]

Actually Waffenwerke Brünn tried to persuade the SS to use newly made rifles by them rather than to provide rifles and get those converted. So theoretically it could be possible the first few prototypes were made based on newly made dot coded rifles. And knowing quite a lot of the base rifles were overhauled SS rifles this leaves chances for weird codes.

The coolest SS DC I‘ve ever seen uses a Walther armorer spare receiver, no receiver date nor maker on it. Only Waffenamt 359 right side and Mod.98 on the receiver wall. And of course SSZZA2.

yes, the truly fully made sszza4 depot rifles then converted to snipers by depot SSzza2 These are very interesting rifles and can see odd ball fill in receivers used for the build.