SAXON issue kS98

[ersatz]

I thought I was finished adding pieces to the collection, but I couldn't pass this one up for 2 reasons. First, I especially like Imperial kS98's, and second it's a rare Saxon issue. Ian Jackson's book on the Kurzes Seitengewehr1898 Model states on page 152 ~ a Haenel, AR14 with wood grips is considered exceptionally rare. For what it's worth, I was told by its former owner that it came from NZ.

 

[Humbarger]

Very nice. Congratulations. Please educate me.
What is this one.

 

[DWM1915]

That would be a hard one to pass up! Really nice Saxon issue, sharp markings to boot. Congrats and thanks for posting pics, I can't recall seeing one before so nice to have some pictures for reference.

nick

 

[PrayingMantis]

That's a nice one, Ted! I read that bit in Jackson about Haenel using the old cypher, ten whole years after King George died.

 

[ersatz]

Very nice. Congratulations. Please educate me.
What is this one.

That looks to be a S 84/98 nA Sawback made by ERFURT. There should be a W with a 2 digit date under it and stamped on the blade near the muzzle rest. This indicates the year of manufacture.

 

[Slash]

This is a great piece Ted. I am a big fan of the kS98 as well. Congrats and thanks for sharing. I have a cousin to your bayonet in my collection. The same configuration but from V. C. Schilling. Saxon issue with the strange AR 14 and wooden grips. This is a published piece as shown on page 54 of Jackson's book. And also described as exceptionally rare on page 152. Ian advised that this is the only example he had ever encountered in this configuration.

 

[ersatz]

This is a great piece Ted. I am a big fan of the kS98 as well. Congrats and thanks for sharing. I have a cousin to your bayonet in my collection. The same configuration but from V. C. Schilling. Saxon issue with the strange FA 14 and wooden grips. This is a published piece as shown on page 54 of Jackson's book. And also described as exceptionally rare on page 152. Ian advised that this is the only example he had ever encountered in this configuration.

Hi SLASH............. Very NICE kS you have there! I appreciate you sharing your Schilling kS98 and thank you for bringing an error to light. I carelessly noted the Saxon cypher as an FA instead of a AR. I have since corrected the cypher in my posting. It's great to have had Jackson verify your Schilling ! ! ! Many thanks for being in touch.

 

[AndyB]

There exist 2 versions of stamp of Friedrich August III, one is FAR intertwined, other was FA only. I assume here are the FAR version of stamped which are little different on both pieces. Schilling FA14 is reported by Williams p.382, vol.I. Ks98 marked with other as prussian acceptance are scarce find. Anyway not many probably remained since 1918.

 

[PrayingMantis]

Andy, what is your source for FAR cypher stamp? I misspoke, meant King Albert, who ruled until 1902. The Saxon Sommerda bayonets are often found with AR cyphers on the spine.

 

[AndyB]

File:Royal Monogram of King Frederick Augustus III of Saxony, Variant 1.svg - Wikimedia Commons

commons.wikimedia.org

 

[PrayingMantis]

I see your point, but I’m still not convinced it’s not c/AR.

 

[ersatz]

I'm just pleased to know that it is a Rare kS98 SAXON piece!

 

[AndyB]

The monogram is different by AR and FAR, anyway the stamp is small and add there a signifantly different stamp is very hard, same as on the die are already after stamping some damages occured. Anyway Friedrich August III ruled since 1904-18, so the monogram could be not AR. By the ruler there exist 2 variants of his monogram so this would explain the variation, in 1902 would be not existed a KS98 blade. The other possibility they reused the AR stamping for rework to FAR monogram. Normally it was used his different FA monogram on S98nA.

 

[PrayingMantis]

Mistakes happened with cyphers, he are two Saxon Haenel 98/02s from 1905, the left has Georges cypher though he died in 1904. one year is not as far off as AR in 1914, but I still think the likelier case is that Haenel used the old cypher since it quickly changed to FA and you don’t see FAR on any other bayonets or rifles.

 

[AndyB]

GR on 05 is total normal, as the change of new dies was not immediately post when the ruler Georg died, the FA05 is normal could be done in december 05. Yours and Slash piece have evidently FAR marking as in that period could be not other ruler in Saxony, he used 2 type of monograms as visible on internet, is possible the die of FA could be damaged around 1914 and older AR was reworked for the monogrman of FAR, but in 1914 You couldnt have a AR stamp, and details on similar pieces are weakly to see on that stamps.

 

[37th Div Ohio]

This is interesting, what written sources do you have that FAR was indeed a cypher used on marking imperial weapons? I have never come across FAR in literature before or marked on Saxon weapons.

 

[AndyB]

There are official monogram of the rulers on german side, there is certainly not exact described it was used on bayonets, but i assume similar proofs are on rifles present too same as on other equipment as saxon property. Should be looked and compared. The FA used 1905-1912 stamp exactly confirms the one variation of Saxon King Friedrich August III, he used 2 version of the monogram, one of it is FAR as mentioned before. how do You explain a different stamp in period 1913-15?

File:Royal Monogram of King Frederick Augustus III of Saxony.svg - Wikimedia Commons

commons.wikimedia.org

 

[37th Div Ohio]

May I suggest you look in Ian Jackson’s KS98 book over KS98s made for Saxony and let me know what you think then.

 

[PrayingMantis]

The FA used 1905-1912 stamp exactly confirms the one variation of Saxon King Friedrich August III, he used 2 version of the monogram, one of it is FAR as mentioned before. how do You explain a different stamp in period 1913-15?

That’s the thing, we’re not arguing that it was intentionally used, but that it was an accident when Haenel and Schilling began production of the kS98. If it had been intentional they wouldn’t have switched so quickly to FA.

 

[AndyB]

By inaugaration ordered the king a new ruler monogram, as here visible this is the second version of FAR. And the corunovation to King was made in late 1904 so its possible already produced proof stamps were used for prepared GR05 stamp, even this stamp is not real because the King Georg died before start of 1905. Nothing strange for me.

Sachsen-Albertinische Linie Tragbare Silbermedaille Friedrich August III. 1904-1918. Fast Stempelglanz

Sachsen-Albertinische Linie Tragbare Silbermedaille Friedrich August III. 1904-1918. Fast Stempelglanz ✓ MA-Shop Kauf mit Garantie ✓ Angebot mit Münzen und Medaillen von der Antike bis zum Euro.

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