Hi. I am trying to find a load for my bnz 1944 Mauser. I have cast some heads from a Lee mould at .324" dia and 175gn. I have been casting from linotype and scrap lead with 10% tinmans solder (plumbers bar) without a gas check. My initial load was 18 gn of Alliance 2400 which was all over the place. Taking advice on this site I dropped the load and made up a batch starting from 14gn to 16gn. 14.5gn had some grouping but still very poor with some heads tumbling. I am shooting at 50 yds so would expect groups of around 2"-3" on open sights. I am getting nowhere near that with some rounds not even hitting the target on some. There are signs of some leading but nowhere near there was at 18gn. I might try to load up with a different powder i.e. Unique. Does any one have any ideas where I am going wrong or supply an alternative load for the heads I am using. Any info would be much appreciated.
Reloading problems
- Thread starter Ade
- Start date
Muncher 1953
Senior Member
I buy my cast bullets, but when I ran a series using cast bullets and the same powder in the summer of 2020, I started at 15.8 gn behind a 205 gn poly coated bullet (no gas check)of 22 BHN sized @ .324”. I encountered leading near the muzzle after a series of 10 rounds, avg velocity was 1430 fps. Because I was shooting through a chronometer, I focused more on not shooting the device than my target, but IIRC, the results were similar to your own. I didnt miss the backstop @ 50 yds. My series progressed through 19.0 gn, results did not improve, velocity increased to 1625 fps. I haven’t gone back to that project, but my notes indicate that I might try the same bullet with smaller loads to pull the muzzle velocity down to around 1200 fps. 12 gn, 13 gn, 14 gn, 5 cartridges each step. Check target for accuracy & bronze brush the bore between each group to check for & remove lead fouling.
if you like, I could scan & send my chrono log sheets to your private email, lots of info there. (may take a few days to do it)
if you like, I could scan & send my chrono log sheets to your private email, lots of info there. (may take a few days to do it)
Thanks for your reply. It's some I have made up using equal measures of beeswax and paraffin wax.
The bore and crown appear to be fine. Having read some threads on this site with similar problems I have just cast some soft heads and will drive a head down the bore to check the size of the bullet once it's gone down the rifling. What size diameter would be classed as an oversized bore?
edit: most say the bullet should be .001 over bore size
imho bore condition is somewhat critical w cast loads. I only shoot cast loads now if the bores near perfect. any pitting and i dont bother. Since your not using gas checks id try them next. ive always used Gas checks and SPG lube for my light cast rifle loads. I size my Lee 8mm to .325 using a Lyman Luber Sizer. If your mold drops at .324 that could possibly be a problem.
16g 2400 always works for me…i cast using this load for 3006, 3040 krag, 303 brit, 8mm Lebel, 7.62x54R, 8x50, 8x56, and 7.7 jap is next. any rifle w a good bore will give me 2-4 moa. ive got a couple thatll shoot 1moa(a pu and 03a4 snipers with scopes)
ny best iron sight gun does 2 moa and its strangely a M95 long rifle in 8x56…however i cant rest the fore end on a rest or the groups open up.
i look at cast shooting as more of an art then science. If you have rounds missing the target at 50 and tumbling its likely your bullets are undersized for the bore or you need to try a gas check
heres a pix of my 8mm bullet and loaded round
hth!
lear
imho bore condition is somewhat critical w cast loads. I only shoot cast loads now if the bores near perfect. any pitting and i dont bother. Since your not using gas checks id try them next. ive always used Gas checks and SPG lube for my light cast rifle loads. I size my Lee 8mm to .325 using a Lyman Luber Sizer. If your mold drops at .324 that could possibly be a problem.
16g 2400 always works for me…i cast using this load for 3006, 3040 krag, 303 brit, 8mm Lebel, 7.62x54R, 8x50, 8x56, and 7.7 jap is next. any rifle w a good bore will give me 2-4 moa. ive got a couple thatll shoot 1moa(a pu and 03a4 snipers with scopes)
ny best iron sight gun does 2 moa and its strangely a M95 long rifle in 8x56…however i cant rest the fore end on a rest or the groups open up.
i look at cast shooting as more of an art then science. If you have rounds missing the target at 50 and tumbling its likely your bullets are undersized for the bore or you need to try a gas check
heres a pix of my 8mm bullet and loaded round
hth!
lear
Thank you your reply. I am in agreement with you about the gas checks. I will have to purchase some. I will size the soft lead bullet tomorrow and drift it through the barrel to get the size of the bore. I want to eliminate an over sized bore first. I also think that I will purchase some factory loads to see how they shoot. The only history I have about my k98 is that it was used in the re enactment scene. I don't think the seller ever shot a live round through. I sincerely hope that I haven't purchased a k98 with a worn out barrel.
Cyrano4747
Well-known member
Are you getting leading in the barrel?
I've never developed a satisfactory load for a Mauser using un-checked lead bullets, and god knows I've tried. The closest I've gotten is making what amount to parlor rounds by putting in a couple grains of H110 and creating a super light loading that's good enough for punching paper at 50 yards but not much else.
Which reminds me, I still need to clean the lead out of the barrel of my load developing K98k from the last time I tried with some powder coated lead bullets. "just as good as jacketed" my a$$.
I've never developed a satisfactory load for a Mauser using un-checked lead bullets, and god knows I've tried. The closest I've gotten is making what amount to parlor rounds by putting in a couple grains of H110 and creating a super light loading that's good enough for punching paper at 50 yards but not much else.
Which reminds me, I still need to clean the lead out of the barrel of my load developing K98k from the last time I tried with some powder coated lead bullets. "just as good as jacketed" my a$$.
My initial load of 18gn of 2400 seemed to lead the barrel. The lower loads are not so bad. Strange thing is that the 18gn loads felt lighter in the shoulder than the 14gn. The primers seemed a litter more flattened on the lighter loads as well. I am a little worried to drastically reduce the loads as I don't want a flash over which could damage the rifle. I don't know how low I can go. As I am only shooting at 50yds I am open to reloading less powder as I can get more reloads for my money and I all I want the round to do is hit the target at 50yds and drop. As stated I need to confirm that the barrel is OK before I do anything else. I may even pop down to my local gunsmith as he specialises in barrel making an blacking.
I have just pushed a soft head down the barrel and it measures .319" or 8.11mm diameter. So the barrel diameter appears to be correct (please correct me if I am wrong). The slug travelled down the barrel smoothly without any tight or loose spots. I'm glad that the barrel seems to be OK as it was starting to worry me a little thinking that I may have bought a shot out barrel.
Muncher 1953
Senior Member
I’m not sure what you mean by ‘flashover’, would you educate me?
I think a larger concern would be a ‘squib’ load NOT pushing the bullet all the way out the muzzle. I’d still experiment, but would check the barrel for obstructions after each round. Here in the States, some folks pursue a hobby known as ‘cowboy action shooting’, built around small loads & small cast bullets. Mainly in revolvers & lever action rifles such as Winchesters. These folks do demonstration shooting at fairs & such, where short range & lack of penetration are important positive aspects of their reloading efforts.
He
Hello. By flash over I mean due the reduced loads the powder lies flat in the case and ignition flashes over the surface of the powder causing greater internal pressure and failure of the case. When I used to load downloaded 45/70 I used semolina as a filler to pack the load. Those being a straight walled case were fine but there is some doubt about using a powdered filled in a bottle neck. I could use capok or similar I suppose.
Muncher 1953
Senior Member
thanks for the explanation, yes a concern. I haven’t had that kind of failure, but I’m reloading modern brass, so ‘somewhat’ less likely. & yes, in that case I’d use some filler. I’ve heard of match shooters chambering a round, standing the rifle on its butt, bumping the bench to settle the powder over the primer, then taking the shot, mostly in cold weather.
I have just ordered a bore camera which displays on your mobile or laptop as I want to check the condition of the rifling. I am open to any info concerning lighter loads. At the local range I can only shoot a maximum of 50yds. If I shoot factory loads I would most certainly be exceeding the power limit of the range and would most probably annoy the shooters at the side of me. We are a friendly bunch and spend most of the time gassing (talking) than shooting. Trying to put the world to rights. However they won't be to pleased if I am cranking out some high power loads besides them. Most shoot 22 or 38/357 in long barrelled revolvers (they won't allow us to have proper handguns).
