The definition of hubris. Camo helmets are harder to authenticate than almost anything else. I mean authenticate, not "I think it's good because..."
Questionable Camos
- Thread starter M45
- Start date
The definition of hubris. Camo helmets are harder to authenticate than almost anything else. I mean authenticate, not "I think it's good because..."
We are hearing of this knowledge but not seeing it. It's much personal attack. I would recommend heeding Farb's words. I've learned over the last 15 years that it is generally wise to seek his counsel. Since I just got back from church I am going to clean up this thread and start moving ad hominem to the boxing robots thread in the capture screw forum.
You missed the point,most there know that the others that we are experienced collectors.
1. A good portion of them have been passed around throughout the years,and discussed at one time or another and we recognize this.
2.Another assumption M45 gets wrong.There isn't really a tremendous amount of new camos popping up over there.
Player11
Right Nad
Thanks!
I have given evidences of my "humble" knowledge, you can see how i have replied to M45 in those last replies, but the problem comes when somebody is so blind that even after replying to him, he keesp doing it. Im not going to be after him everyday questioning what he pust as questionable for those reasons, first because i dont have anought time and second because sometimes is so difficult to understand his arguements about a camo.
Its very easy, if this was a pananormal forum, and i dont believe or i dont understand it, i would be all day deniying what is writting here, with M45 happens the same, he denies what he can understand.
He has done so terrible mistakes judging Ronr helmets, because those helmet are real than irreal for many reasons, but when somebody begins an arguement saying " what is before the CW of the camo od the camo and the CW" is very difficult to search a reponsable answer to convince to this person of something he is saying is bad, That´s one of the problems with M45, he is so arrogant that he dont want to hear another posibility, something i save it in this way
Trust me he knows his stuff.This isn't some big conspiracy.Its rather simple.I see many examples of he and I giving our reasoning why M45 is wrong.Go about 20 pages back and start.
Are you going to believe 2 buddies on 1 forum that admit to owning no camos and say "hands on" isn't nessacary?
Or literally hundreds on GHW,many who were doing this before a lot of us were born?
And published authors?
Now with that being said,I by no means am saying just trust some guys because they've been doing this for years or have large collections or ar dealers or authors.
EACH HELMET SHOULD BE JUDGED ON ITS OWN APPEARANCE,NOT WHO OWNED IT OR WHO APPROVES.
BUT,when you add all the knowledge,all the approval from many said experienced guys it adds up.And nwhen they are called they get called out.
We(they) get it right way,way more than we get it wrong.
M45 thinks posting some very obvious Latvian or E Bay fakes makes him the all knowing when literally everyone else thinks totally the opposite.
It's not that hard to figure out when some common sense is applied.
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Player11
Right Nad
Thanks! but i have reach to a point where i dont care what people can say about my collection or my helmets, i also love to play with people in this sense.
There is nothing like showing them via e-mail, with blurry pics, vivid colours after the sun etc.... Like this you can see who is a more interested collector or not. The more interested will ask you better pics with closer view of them before judging them, the rest ( where M45 would be included) would post them in a thread called "questionable camo" when the problem is that he has not shown interes asking for better pics that is the best way to understand a camo ( handling would be definitely, but as not allways is possible ).
I think this thread still has hope. I believe player11 is very knowledgeable in the area of camo helmets. I think he could be a value to this forum and thread. I also believe M45 is knowledgeable as well. Maybe M45 is just more skeptical. If those that don't like M45 look at him in the role of Devil's Advocate, and the personal attacks end, we could see very good debates about camo helmets that the less informed such as myself can learn from.
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Niblet
Left Nad
Im sure all this was said prior to exposing the "scam pain rune fiasco"
,,,time will tell I guess
But I still believe M-45 is 100% correct on his helmet calls,,,bottom line is if its too good to be true,,it probably is
oh well I can sleep at night knowing I dont have any of these things in my collection
I joined in this discussion to learn something myself,,,not just camos,,but collector behavior,,its really something,,
the Herd mentality,,the "its good because its in this guys collection mentality" its good because I been studying these for 20 yrs
blh blah bblah,,,but I digress,,,you guys have fun with your collections,,I will stop by in about 5 yrs and read about how
so many camo helmet collectors were scammed by this guy so and so who has been cranking out high end fakes for years,,,,
,,,time will tell I guess
But I still believe M-45 is 100% correct on his helmet calls,,,bottom line is if its too good to be true,,it probably is
oh well I can sleep at night knowing I dont have any of these things in my collection
I joined in this discussion to learn something myself,,,not just camos,,but collector behavior,,its really something,,
the Herd mentality,,the "its good because its in this guys collection mentality" its good because I been studying these for 20 yrs
blh blah bblah,,,but I digress,,,you guys have fun with your collections,,I will stop by in about 5 yrs and read about how
so many camo helmet collectors were scammed by this guy so and so who has been cranking out high end fakes for years,,,,
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Figured that one was coming. Well deserved. Lol. Maybe some humor is what this thread needed.
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I couldn't resist using it.
It's all in good fun. Nothing personal.
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I couldn't resist either.
M45
Well-known member
I've heard that before and I don't accept it, the idea that we can't share detailed information about real and fake items on forums because the fakers will learn from it and better their fakes. I've seen this hoarding of knowledge on other forums and it came off as privileged information for those in the club. The ordinary Joe collector did not 'need to know' this.
I'm reminded of the old story that we could not discuss the fine details of "fake" vs. "real" Champagne SS decals because the fakers could learn from this and make their fakes even better. We only needed to know that there were "fingerprints" that clued the SS guru in as to what he was looking at. We were never told what such "fingerprints" were at that time, only that such things existed. This was privileged information that only the SS gurus knew, and they were not telling us. Then come to find out that the entire lot of Sham-pain Ruin helmets were bad. That should teach us not to trust the "experts".
The truth is, the fakers already know just about everything they need to know to make high-end fakes, those nearly indistinguishable from originals. Many of these have been circulating on helmet forums as rare "originals". So your little "secrets" are not going to make much difference either way, player.
No doubt some will insist these are authentic, but I believe them to be high end replicas, so well done that they are nearly indistinguishable from authentic camos/reissues.
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I have to agree with M45 that the good counterfeiters already know everything. The keeping of information private only hurts inexperienced collectors. I hate to keep referencing Finnish collecting on a Mauser Forum, but that had been my main area of collecting. Many times no one on gunboards would show a real SVT-40 Sniper Notch. Their reasoning was then it could be faked. Yet the information was out there elsewhere. I'm also sure those that are good at faking things had real snipers to work off of. Keeping the information hidden only hurt those who were new to collecting. Those who needed the information the most.
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Warrior1354
ax - hole
Maybe thats what this thread needs is more humor so people will quite attacking each other lol!
M45
Well-known member
An M40 Heer helmet with unknown Heer decal. Not an ET, Q, HJ&K, Pocher or reissue that I know of, so a possible fake.
Factories and Heer decals as I understand it:
ET: ET decal (some Wilhelm Abels)
SE: ET decal
Q: Q big foot (some ET, Wilhelm Abels, Pochers)
NS: Pocher (some Wilhelm Abels, ET, HJ&K)
EF: Pocher, ET, HJ&K (some gray lined Heer)
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Classic ET M40. ................
http://www.ghw2.com/topic/31932-ringing-in-the-new-year-heer-style/
This is what I'm saying fellows.A basic ET M40 and he's wrong.So his Camo opinions are "spot on"?
Most people start off with non camos THEN may start collecting camos with added study .
BTW Rex's camos aren't "expert replicas" Maybe in your eyes?
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I'm glad to see this is turning back substantive. Some BS and mild flaming is OK generally, but I moved posts to the Infernus Rock Em Sock Em Robot thread. Y'all can go there and personally insult each other. Next comes custom avatars for the worst offenders. The reason I don't thread lock is because it encourages bad behavior from those who want a discussion stopped, i.e., a thread lock. I'm not saying anyone here is doing this, I think this is honest irritation and mudslinging. Carry on.
