My svwMB

[moconfed]

Just throwing this out:
Some of the rifles I've restored over the years have gone through an 'evolution' you could say, as different parts have become available, but I'm failing to see how I (or anyone else in the same situation as a restorer) should be held accountable if someone were to purchase a restored rifle as correct from another party without doing the research to see if it is indeed correct.
If the rifle in question was acquired from Caesar as correct, shame on him, but since it was not, shame on the buyer (or the seller, if not advertised correctly)for not giving it due diligence.
Is it not our responsibility as collectors to know what we're buying?
I've been screwed on some deals, but I chalk them up to myself not doing the research. That's why I urge new guys to research first, and buy second.
Am I wrong?
In my opinion, Caesar has done nothing wrong.

 

[Gman06]

Just throwing this out:
Some of the rifles I've restored over the years have gone through an 'evolution' you could say, as different parts have become available, but I'm failing to see how I (or anyone else in the same situation as a restorer) should be held accountable if someone were to purchase a restored rifle as correct from another party without doing the research to see if it is indeed correct.
If the rifle in question was acquired from Caesar as correct, shame on him, but since it was not, shame on the buyer (or the seller, if not advertised correctly)for not giving it due diligence.
Is it not our responsibility as collectors to know what we're buying?
I've been screwed on some deals, but I chalk them up to myself not doing the research. That's why I urge new guys to research first, and buy second.
Am I wrong?
In my opinion, Caesar has done nothing wrong.

If you are a senior member and you take a rifle in original condition and strip and pass it on as something else what does that say for the rest of the forum. You are held to a higher standard as a senior member. People look up to you and trust you. Not that you’ll profit off them at there expense

 

[Cololab]

I agree with the above posts regarding caveat emptor and the right of an owner to upgrade, replace, improve, etc. anything he rightfully owns. I don't know that Caesar1 owes anyone here an explanation, but I'd like an affirmation that he either did or did not alter, replace, remove, etc.anything on the OP's rifle before he sold it to some party other than the OP.

 

[Caesar1]

Again, not sure what I did wrong. If I switched stocks I won’t sell it as some original vet bring back,

 

[Cololab]

Again, not sure what I did wrong. If I switched stocks I won’t sell it as some original vet bring back,

Regardless of how you represented it, did you switch the stock or any parts before you sold it?

 

[moconfed]

If you are a senior member and you take a rifle in original condition and strip and pass it on as something else what does that say for the rest of the forum. You are held to a higher standard as a senior member. People look up to you and trust you. Not that you’ll profit off them at there expense

Unless I'm mistaken, Caesar purchased the rifle as a sporter? From what I gather, he didn't sell it 'stripped', and if he did, did you purchase the rifle from him, and did he tell you it was original or correct?

 

[Gman06]

Regardless of how you represented it, did you switch the stock or any parts before you sold it?

Exactly

 

[Gman06]

Unless I'm mistaken, Caesar purchased the rifle as a sporter? From what I gather, he didn't sell it 'stripped', and if he did, did you purchase the rifle from him, and did he tell you it was original or correct?

He shows the rifle in correct condition 6 months before he show it in sporterized condition

 

[moconfed]

He shows the rifle in correct condition 6 months before he show it in sporterized condition

That has no bearing on this issue at all.
I could post one of my volkssturm rifles before I posted on the magazine.
Did you purchase the rifle from Caesar1?

 

[Gman06]

That has no bearing on this issue at all.
I could post one of my volkssturm rifles before I posted on the magazine.
Did you purchase the rifle from Caesar1?

The person this rifle was purchased from is deceased

 

[Gman06]

That has no bearing on this issue at all.
I could post one of my volkssturm rifles before I posted on the magazine.
Did you purchase the rifle from Caesar1?

Convenient

 

[Caesar1]

Gman, did I sell you the rifle? Did I say it was a vet bring back or did you buy it from someone else who told you that?

 

[Gman06]

Gman, did I sell you the rifle? Did I say it was a vet bring back or did you buy it from someone else who told you that?

You altered the rifle from its original condition. You are a senior member of this forum.

 

[pzjgr]

Look, whomever bought the rifle from Caesar 1 could have stripped the parts he wanted/needed from it, replaced them, then resold it...it could have passed through 3 sets of hands before Gman bought it...unless there is clear chain of custody who can say whne/where things were replaced/changed.

Lots of shady shite goes down in this hobby sadly, but I wouldn't be quick to blame one of our collector family for pulling a fast one unless there is sufficient proof.

It has happened, proof has been produced, and appropriate actions were taken. Hucksters and carnival barkers don't last long here.

 

[Gman06]

Look, whomever bought the rifle from Caesar 1 could have stripped the parts he wanted/needed from it, replaced them, then resold it...it could have passed through 3 sets of hands before Gman bought it...unless there is clear chain of custody who can say whne/where things were replaced/changed.

Lots of shady shite goes down in this hobby sadly, but I wouldn't be quick to blame one of our collector family for pulling a fast one unless there is sufficient proof.

It has happened, proof has been produced, and appropriate actions were taken. Hucksters and carnival barkers don't last long here.

I have it exactly as Caesar1 pictured it 6 months later from its original condition

 

[Gman06]

This should just go to to show a that members of a forum can’t be trusted to show accurate examples he posted it in original condition then posted it in a much worse state. Easy to not hold him accountable when the man he sold it to is no longer with us. Corruption at its finest.

 

[Cololab]

That has no bearing on this issue at all.
I could post one of my volkssturm rifles before I posted on the magazine.
Did you purchase the rifle from Caesar1?

It does have bearing if anyone is interested as to possibly when or by whose hands the rifle changed configuration. It's just a point of curiosity as to where the nice wood, trigger guard, etc. shown at one time on OP's rifle ended up. If Caesar1 changed it out, fine, it was his right to do so, and it did happen sometime before OP bought the rifle from someone other than Caesar1 so this isn't a matter of Ceasar1 misrepresenting the rifle to OP.

 

[moconfed]

Convenient

Convenient

 

[Stan]

I have it exactly as Caesar1 pictured it 6 months later from its original condition

It looks like the stock that was on it when Caeser bought on GB is the repaired stock that is back on the rifle today per the posted GB photo in his stock repair post. I think the sequence of the posted links is the reason for the confusion. I can only assume he replaced the repaired stock that came with it for the nicer one shown in the earlier link to make the rifle more correct. For whatever reason he posted the repaired stock post several months after the original post and later sold it with that stock that it came with to a third party. It later ended up at a shop where you bought it. Since he didn't sell it to you directly, hard to pin any misrepresentation on him.

 

[Cololab]

It looks like the stock that was on it when Caeser bought on GB is the repaired stock that is back on the rifle today per the posted GB photo in his stock repair post. I think the sequence of the posted links is the reason for the confusion. I can only assume he replaced the repaired stock that came with it for the nicer one shown in the earlier link to make the rifle more correct. For whatever reason he posted the repaired stock post several months after the original post and later sold it with that stock that it came with to a third party. It later ended up at a shop where you bought it. Since he didn't sell it to you directly, hard to pin any misrepresentation on him.

What you say sounds perfectly plausible. Ceasar1 could easily clear this up (even though there i guess there is really no forum oligation to do so), so I'm curious why he hasn't. All we're really talking about now, I think, is where did the nice stock and hardware end up; sold, traded, or reserved for another project.