My K98k russian capture

[crow]

Hello folks

I have a K98k RC here that has all mixed up serial numbers. I'd just like some info on what all the markings mean. From what I've seen online, the sense that I get among the K98k collector community is that rc's aren't all that collectible since they're all mixed up. What attracted me to it wasn't the "collectible-ness" of it, per se, but the novelty of having a WWII era German Mauser and the coolness factor. But anyways, it's in great shape. Here are shots of the main markings.

As I said, nothing matches except the receiver and the barrel. Here's a list of the parts that have serial numbers and their corresponding #

Receiver - 9191
upper band - 4501
bayonet stud - 27
rear site base - 9951 with a "B" above it
rear site leaf - 7957
rear site leaf guide - 7948
floor plate - 2897
follower - 01
stock (leftside of butt stock) - 8507

Bolt (electro-stenciled 9191)
safety - 1695
cocking piece - 8604
bolt sleeve - 664

 

[crow]

More photos

Any info on these markings would be great and overall opinion of this K98k as well. A question I have is why is the extractor that reddish color? Is it a replacement part post-war?
And for those that would like to know, I got it for $375 plus shipping, so an even $400. Maybe I overpaid but I really like it and when I first held it, I suddenly realized that I liked German Mausers and wanted more.

 

[20PZGR]

Congratulations.....you never forget your first! Your in the right place to start out, reasonable money, a piece of history etc. Plus, it's a good piece to practice on and get familiar with them. I would disassemble it, soak the metal parts in mineral spirits or other solvent. The thick dull Russian blueing will come off easily leaving the original blue to be seen and its most likely in nice shape. Wipe down the stock with paint thinner and a white turkish towel. The reddish shellac will come off totally after a few applications. You will end up with a much better looking rifle, closer to its original look. Assuming the bore is in good shape, they shoot very well, better than you think! Have fun and welcome aboard!

 

[20PZGR]

Oh, I'm sorry you asked for info on the markings...DOT is the wartime code for Waffen Werke Brunn. The rifle was obviously made in 1943 and the serial # puts it late in the production run, third or fourth quarter of 1943. This was the 1st year that firm produced K98's.

 

[emcon5]

Looks like the barrel bands and floorplate are early war, later parts were stamped. The WaA623 on the floorplate means that part at least came from Steyr.

The number on the butt was put there by the Soviets, so it was restocked at some point. The large "X" was also put there by the Soviets, it is actually supposed to be crossed rifles. Nice that the markings are intact, they are sometimes (often?) defaced.

Not a bad looking rifle.

 

[emcon5]

I would disassemble it, soak the metal parts in mineral spirits or other solvent. The thick dull Russian blueing will come off easily leaving the original blue to be seen and its most likely in nice shape.

Hmm. Are you talking about the stock metal, or the action/barrel itself?

I have this RC AR42 barreled action that the finish is pretty nasty, do you think a solvent soak would improve it any?



Thanks

 

[agalland]

More photos
A question I have is why is the extractor that reddish color? Is it a replacement part post-war?
.

No..it is most likely not a post war replacement part.

If you look @ a lot of matching mausers you will see that reddish tint on the extractors..It has to do with the carbon content in the steel(or so i read)...cant remeber if it means if it high ,or low...I'm thinking high...but dont hold me to it.

SBC

 

[flynaked]

high carbon

 

[20PZGR]

I don't think there's much to lose trying it.....its hard to tell from the photos if the original finish is that rough or the Russian stuff is just degraded. Maybe try on an inconspicuous spot.

 

[met]

Hard to tell from the photo but you may have a walnut stock. Looks like early war flat butt plate.

 

[tjg79]

As for why the extractor has that reddish tint, it could be due to several factors which include heat treatment, carbon content and alloy content. I've read different theories and explanations on various forums, but I've never seen any documentation or references cited as to the chemical properties of the steel, heat treatment and bluing method. The extractor is likely spring steel which has many variations just like any general classification of steel. Spring steel varies from medium to high carbon and may or may not contain alloys. The receiver is likely low carbon steel, because it's case hardened. In general, if you use the same bluing method for different steels, you'll likely get variations if the finish. I've seen the reddish tint on a lot of extractors and the degree of tint varies. Some extractors don't have the reddish tint. Different bluing methods such as rust blue, hot dip blue, etc..., yield different results as well. Because it was a military rifle, they likely weren't concerned about an even blue finish as if they might be on a commercial rifle. So, different steel with only one method of bluing for all parts likely yields slight differences in finish.

 

[crow]

Hey all

Thanks for all of the responses! It's good to know that info! The Russian finish is really rough, those pictures don't lie. When I first got it, I thought to myself that the finish on the receiver most likely was original because in some spots, it looks like there areas where the original German is shining through, kind of like patches of blue sky on a cloudy day. I'm definitely going to want to get that Russian finish off. I've looked up online how to disassemble it, but that front band is BEAST to get off! I haven't been able to do it yet and a solution I found was to get a clamp to clamp down the retaining spring thing and then I'll be free to use both hands. Is that the only/best way to do it when the band fights back or is there a better way?

And thanks for the advice on stripping off the Russian varnish. I'd like to do that too.

Hard to tell from the photo but you may have a walnut stock. Looks like early war flat butt plate.

That would be sweet if it was walnut! By removing the Russian varnish, will I be pretty much stripping the stock down to bare wood or will whatever the original German finish was still kind of be there? Or was the original German destroyed when the Russians redid it? Is there anything I should do afterwards to ensure the integrity of the stock? Also, how can I tell if it's walnut?

EDIT: I forgot to add that my K98k is from James River Armory, in case anyone was wondering the quality of what they're offering.

 

[djbuck1]

I hear what you're saying about that front band.

Some come off relatively easily, but remember that your RC is made up off parts from different rifles, so the fit may not be perfect.

Like you, I use a clamp, but use a piece of cloth to protect the wood!

I then use a block of wood and a small hammer to tap the band off. Just take your time and be careful. You don't want to inadvertently damage your rifle.

I put a film of oil on the metal of the front end cap of the stock and the inside of the front band. It seems to help a bit.

 

[sheepdog]

Hey all

Thanks for all of the responses! It's good to know that info! The Russian finish is really rough, those pictures don't lie. When I first got it, I thought to myself that the finish on the receiver most likely was original because in some spots, it looks like there areas where the original German is shining through, kind of like patches of blue sky on a cloudy day. I'm definitely going to want to get that Russian finish off. I've looked up online how to disassemble it, but that front band is BEAST to get off! I haven't been able to do it yet and a solution I found was to get a clamp to clamp down the retaining spring thing and then I'll be free to use both hands. Is that the only/best way to do it when the band fights back or is there a better way?

And thanks for the advice on stripping off the Russian varnish. I'd like to do that too.



That would be sweet if it was walnut! By removing the Russian varnish, will I be pretty much stripping the stock down to bare wood or will whatever the original German finish was still kind of be there? Or was the original German destroyed when the Russians redid it? Is there anything I should do afterwards to ensure the integrity of the stock? Also, how can I tell if it's walnut?

EDIT: I forgot to add that my K98k is from James River Armory, in case anyone was wondering the quality of what they're offering.

Stripping down an RC stock is something you need to think about. First a lot of the guys say that since that is technically a Russian rifle, the Russian red shellac slop job is correct for it. It's a legitamite thought and one to consider. Yes it is shellac.

Now if you still want to do it and by reading some of these posts it sounds like the stock is flaking, the first thing you should do is peel as much of that shellac off with a plastic putty knife or something. After that use denatured alcohol to remove the rest. I soak some burlap I have with it to wipe it down, a towel will do. Whatever you do stay away from any abrasive like sandpaper or even steel wool, you don't know what your going to find so no use sanding anything off. Some of the German color will also come off if you sand and you will get the Mitchell"s Mausers look.

Remember the trick to doing this is to make your stock look like it's 80 years old. No abrasives, no oven cleaners, no harsh strippers, the strongest solvent you use is denatured alcohol.



When you stay away from abrasives you find neat stuff like this, would you want to sand this away? This is a walnut RC stock I redid. The BLO has toned down a might. If the stock isn't a laminate it's more than likely a walnut stock. You don't see many walnut RC stocks and I'm a sucker for a walnut stock.

That's finished with 3 coats of Boiled Linseed Oil first coat cut with turpentine about 25%. Wipe it on, buff it off after about an hour.

 

[gergnotwen]

I hear what you're saying about that front band.

Some come off relatively easily, but remember that your RC is made up off parts from different rifles, so the fit may not be perfect.

Like you, I use a clamp, but use a piece of cloth to protect the wood!

I then use a block of wood and a small hammer to tap the band off. Just take your time and be careful. You don't want to inadvertently damage your rifle.

I put a film of oil on the metal of the front end cap of the stock and the inside of the front band. It seems to help a bit.

As a suggestion, get yourself some Ballistol and don't use regular oil on the wood. Ballistol will not heavily stain or discolor the wood which is a good thing on collectible rifles.

 

[djbuck1]

Right. Do not use gun oil on the wood. I was just referring to the metal end cap, and then just a film.

 

[Hambone]

Welcome Crow. Guys, since RCs are not wartime K98ks I'm moving this to the Collecting OT forum with a redirect.
Tks,
HB

 

[emcon5]

That would be sweet if it was walnut!

I think I see some red glue poking through the shellac in the last photo of your first post, between the S/N and the recoil lug.

Look at the bottom of the stock. If you see normal wood grain, it could be Walnut, if you see narrow parallel lines running the length of the stock, it is a laminate.

 

[ZF41 K98k]

Welcome Crow. Guys, since RCs are not wartime K98ks I'm moving this to the Collecting OT forum with a redirect.
Tks,
HB

Not wartime K98k's?!?! Why not...?

 

[Hambone]

Not wartime K98k's?!?! Why not...?

Because they were reworked post war and are not wartime. Once a thread starts going the route of postwar discussion and stock stripping and refinishing as opposed to restoration, this is where it ends up because the discussion is no longer about what a rifle looked like in wartime, i.e, in German use between 1933 and 1945.
Thanks,
HB