Why is it lazy? Maybe it needs a job? But it’s covid give him a break how many openings can there be for a defs head?
So if not an S what is it?
So if not an S what is it?
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Lazy S deaths head research
- Thread starter mrfarb
- Start date
Absolut
Senior Member
Maybe just like a line to discern the bottom of the stamp? Or, I just learned this by proof reading Bruce’s bayonet book....what about those symbols put on WW1 era acceptance stamps when someone has the same name? Like perhaps there’s a DH, and then a DH with the lazy S denoting a different inspector or location?
My bad, I misread the meaning but a distinction without a difference. Again, nice work.
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I think it's clear these are different depots or Waffenwerkstätten (with some changing stamps at different times). If the stamp were the same except for the symbol, I'd say an inspector might be a possibility. But from how different these stamps are, it looks like the depots made these dies in house or contracted with some local die maker based on a loose requirement (stamp skull with your assigned symbol) from the SS-Hauptamt or whoever.
I think this may just have been how they were doing things. Using symbols as markers for various offices or facilities. No reason to hide any of this really, or at least I can't think of one. The Heer knew what they were up to.
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R.Blue
Member
Ryan’s theory makes sense.
It could be a numeric symbol....the number “2” for example.
I googled the reverse “s”symbol and the Latin alphabet popped up denoting the numeral “2”.
The German village of HaBloch (Hassloch)’s coat of arms is also the reverse “s”. A possible clue to a depot location? It couldn’t be that easy.
R.B
It could be a numeric symbol....the number “2” for example.
I googled the reverse “s”symbol and the Latin alphabet popped up denoting the numeral “2”.
The German village of HaBloch (Hassloch)’s coat of arms is also the reverse “s”. A possible clue to a depot location? It couldn’t be that easy.
R.B
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It won’t be an obscure reference like that, that’s the old way of thinking. It’s going to be as simple as the “+” and “=“ symbols.
The infinity symbol is the closest and fits exactly. I’ve even seen some examples from googling that look like a backwards S. I’m trying to find a ww2 era German math book, let’s see what the period depiction was.
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The infinity symbol is the closest and fits exactly. I’ve even seen some examples from googling that look like a backwards S. I’m trying to find a ww2 era German math book, let’s see what the period depiction was.
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Absolut
Senior Member
Two thoughts that came to me...
- the stock stamp: those with Lazy S DH on the stock are ALWAYS also Lazy S DH stamped on the barrel. But the number of those seem to be very small. This would speak towards a very limited time frame where this was done. Could be interesting to compare the firing proof dates of rifles that have the Lazy S DH ONLY on them to maybe limit their time frame a bit more.
- we had considered the barrel stamp stamps to possibly be for Suhl companies which possibly performed the conversion on behalf of the SS. Such as the Star symbol, or HW for Hermann Weihrauch. If we are to assume the SS had the rifles converted by a company, wouldn't the same companies that marked the rifles also mark the pistols with their stamp? I searched mine but couldn't find anything similar/comparable. The "3" on bottom of the barrel of mine I guess is something else. Ryan, can you detail check your pistol if you find any marking that is atypical? Maybe even under the grips.
- the stock stamp: those with Lazy S DH on the stock are ALWAYS also Lazy S DH stamped on the barrel. But the number of those seem to be very small. This would speak towards a very limited time frame where this was done. Could be interesting to compare the firing proof dates of rifles that have the Lazy S DH ONLY on them to maybe limit their time frame a bit more.
- we had considered the barrel stamp stamps to possibly be for Suhl companies which possibly performed the conversion on behalf of the SS. Such as the Star symbol, or HW for Hermann Weihrauch. If we are to assume the SS had the rifles converted by a company, wouldn't the same companies that marked the rifles also mark the pistols with their stamp? I searched mine but couldn't find anything similar/comparable. The "3" on bottom of the barrel of mine I guess is something else. Ryan, can you detail check your pistol if you find any marking that is atypical? Maybe even under the grips.
I don't know. I think a reason you only see the Lazy S on a few stocks is that the rifles were pretty much all reworked again. Stocks were probably sanded after conversion to the K98k pattern, and maybe the DH was reapplied at the wrist. I think the "Lazy S" acceptance was in use at least 1936-1938 or 1939.
While the SS could have farmed these out, its also possible the shoulder marking is the company that supplied the SS with the barrels. Either cutting them down or making new barrels, I haven't looked that closely at it. Do any of the Erma or Steyr supplied K98k barrels have these markings? I can't recall seeing one except maybe the star and those weren't on the shoulder.
I don't recall any unusual markings on mine, but I will check it again.
rockisle1903
Senior Member
A legitimate Weimar commercial proofed ex-army police pistol....Notice the ROLLMARKED 1920, not sure when they were done...But it does show typical SS luger proofing, in a police pistol...Does have the sear safety and is all matching to include holster...Sorry for the mixed up photos, but you get the point
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Very interesting. Searches turn up a few more of these Leipzig Schupo guns and they look exactly like this one. Commercially proofed (identically) with cancelled Sächsische Landessicherheitspolizei markings.
Seems a lot of these police units had their own way of doing things.
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Seems a lot of these police units had their own way of doing things.
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heavy_mech
RKI- Reasonably Knowledgable Individual
Do you think they were actually sanded to the new shape? I could almost imagine cutting both ends to fit a standard K98 panto is which case it would only remove any 'excess' material and then it could be final sanded. Just spitballing.
If I'm reading your question right, Mike posted an early Erma ordinance spare built on a '36 Dohlen blank in post #2. Double Lazy S overstamped.
I just mean when the "SS pattern" Gew98s (short rifles with Gew98 stock features) were later modified at Dachau to the K98k pattern by adding the bandspring and bolt cutouts, the stocks were sanded in the process and the TK restamped on the wrist. Possibly why you don't see many of the Lazy S stock inspections. By the time they were reworking these to K98k, the Lazy S acceptance seems to have been retired.
I'm talking about the small TS, FS, HW, etc. that is stamped on the collar, not the Lazy S.
heavy_mech
RKI- Reasonably Knowledgable Individual
Thanks for the clarifications Ryan. This is certainly a deep dive.
Not really. He never mentioned any papers and I think he would have if he had any.
I don't trust papers (even the real ones) anyway.
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heavy_mech
RKI- Reasonably Knowledgable Individual
Yeah that's bad. Probably the worst (and most cartoonish) one I've ever seen.
