Third Party Press

Kennblaetter fremden Geraets

Great idea! IN!
Maybe I can throw in some pages from my copy. I'll send the index of contents to mrfarb.

We will probably never have a "complete list" of all weapons, but we can work on it.
The instruction for the 2nd amendment says: remove and destroy all pages for Swiss weapons.
Would like to know what Swiss weapons were issued to the Wehrmacht. I'm only aware of the 20mm ATR.
 
That's cool. This series was on all other country weapons and such, with 50/1 being small arms.
 
Just remember boys and girls that the KbfG is a recognition manual; just because an item is in it does not mean the Germans used it...
 
It's also got mistakes, as period military recognition manuals do. It is surprisingly accurate, relatively speaking. It also has rifles in it I've never seen nor heard off, along with bayonets, sabres, etc.
 
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Did the German Army ever engrave/stamp the booty weapons according to the designation of the Kennblätter?

Why did the armorer of this Landesschützen unit use the rifle designation "302 f" as maker mark. How could he know the correct designation for the Mle. 07/15?
I don't think each armorer had access to a copy of the Kennblätter or took the time to ask G2.
Thanks
 

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My first inclination is because he did have an accessible copy of the Kennblatter. Armorers and weapons supply types seem to be the intended audience, given the content.

He might not have been a small unit armorer, but assigned to an actual facility that was responsible for the issuance and proper recording of the documentation. It seems to make sense from an accountability standpoint, and places the responsibility for accurate recording on the competent authority. But, that might just be my own experience in dealing with issued weapons with strict controls on type and serial numbers of the weapons assigned.

Pat
 
He also did the same with the bayonet, writing down 103(f) for the 86/16 bayonet (Lebel Epee bayonet without quillion).
 
From my understanding, record keeping in the pay book (Soldbuch) occurred on company level. I can not think of a signature/stamp above company commander.

For identification of the weapon, it does not help to have the correct designation recorded, if the weapon is not accordingly marked.

Over the years I came across some British rifles marked with the Kennblaetter designation Gew. xxx (e), but always considered them as fakes.
 
Amberg said:
From my understanding, record keeping in the pay book (Soldbuch) occurred on company level. I can not think of a signature/stamp above company commander.

For identification of the weapon, it does not help to have the correct designation recorded, if the weapon is not accordingly marked.

Over the years I came across some British rifles marked with the Kennblaetter designation Gew. xxx (e), but always considered them as fakes.
Click to expand...

I think that's one of the reasons why the Kennblatter was used, as a substitute to marking each and every weapon. Rather than marking them, it was probably easier to distribute the copies to the personnel who would actually need them, and have them make the determination. Even if they had bothered to mark each rifle, there would still be the need for a reference to cross-check and verify...

Interesting about the Enfields you noted. If they weren't fakes, I'd still consider them anomalous, just based on the innumerable examples of captured rifles that weren't marked.

Pat
 
Or, it's possible that this unit was issued a large number of these weapons on a consistent basis and the corresponding designation was well known to them.
 
mrfarb said:
Or, it's possible that this unit was issued a large number of these weapons on a consistent basis and the corresponding designation was well known to them.
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What, if the unit's armorer would have been replaced with a boy right from school?
 
Pat said:
Rather than marking them, it was probably easier to distribute the copies to the personnel who would actually need them, and have them make the determination.
Pat
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If each armorer had a copy, there should be more around.
I only know 8 copies worldwide.
 
Pat said:
Interesting about the Enfields you noted. If they weren't fakes, I'd still consider them anomalous, just based on the innumerable examples of captured rifles that weren't marked.

Pat
Click to expand...
Some decades ago I bought one, knowing that the marking is most probably fake. I'll post some photos later this week. IIRR it is a P17 rifle, or a P14 or ........ a Brit rifle!
 
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I'll ask PeterU if he has any paybooks with such records in his collection.
 
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Amberg said:
If each armorer had a copy, there should be more around.
I only know 8 copies worldwide.
Click to expand...

8 copies of the Kennblatter for the Handwaffen? Aren't there many more than that?

The problem is that we don't know exactly who was assigned a copy, and at what level. I doubt that unit level armorers would get one (what purpose?), but at a fixed location like a depot receiving captured arms for processing it makes sense, and they would have both the need and the space.

Pat
 
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